[Jeroen]

Originally Posted by saket77

It is there to indicate a problem with the fuel injection system of the car. This can be due to a small issue like a loose wire on a sensor to something as serious as failure of a sensor.

to be more precise, the MIL indicates possible problems with the whole of the emission control system and that goes way beyond just the fuel injection system. As appears the case to be in this particular car, where it was due to a problem in the speedometer.

Lots of bits and pieces have impact on the proper functioning of the emission control system, e.g. speedometer. But for instance also your fueltank cap!

When in doubt, hook it up to an OBD analyzer, preferably one with car specific capabilities. In this case you had the problem with the speedo and the MIL coming on at the same time. Good call, suspecting they could well be related!

Jeroen

[saket77]

Originally Posted by Jeroen

to be more precise, the MIL indicates possible problems with the whole of the emission control system and that goes way beyond just the fuel injection system.

True. The emission control system is also very much in the gamut. Same states the manual. However, I wrote fuel injection system because the system includes the O2/ lamba sensors too, which analyze the exhaust gases or emissions to fine tune the inputs in the fuel injection.

[raksrules]

Apologies If this has been mentioned in the thread but I would like to point an incident that happened with me when I was in USA. I owned a Honda Accord 1999 model there and one day out of nowhere the check engine light came on.
I knew that meant trouble but since I had absolutely no knowledge about cars (still don't) I panicked.
I had a flyer of a nearby garage chain who would do free check engine light inspection of the car. I gave my car there and let them inspect it. After about an hour, they gave me long list of issues (may be because it was 11 year old car with 137xxx miles on it) and told me it can be lot of issues like transmission failing and such.
He told me repair costs can go upto $2000 (i had bought car for $4400).
I just left from there thinking whether the guy wants to rip me off.

So i created an account on several international car forums, especially honda ones and posted my query. I got a free OBD code checkup done so I did get the error code but it gave me multiple reasons online for the issue. I was convinced I had to spend some good amount of money. Moreover an inspection was due soon and a car with check engine light wont pass inspection from what I knew.

One comment on one of the forums was a very simple one. Someone suggested me to properly close the fuel lid on my car and wait for a day. I gave it a shot and voila the next day the light went away.
Then after few months same thing happened, light came back, i shut off the lid properly and it went away.
So i then got the rubber gasket changed around the fuel tank lid as the mechanic mentioned to me that the pressure is not adequate and that is why the check engine light is coming on. No issues ever after the rubber ring was changed.

[im_srini]

Originally Posted by vishnu-man

Details about the car:
Make - Wagon-R
Model - 2000

Originally Posted by saket77

Also, this light can be on if the speedometer is not functioning, say due to a bad speedo cable.

Originally Posted by saket77

Most likely a bad speedo cable is the culprit.
The light is on due to conflicting reports to the ECU.
The speed sensor is telling the ECU that the vehicle is in motion, but the speedometer says 0 KMPH and the ECU is registering an error.

Hi Saket,
Are you sure about the Speedo-Cable ?
If I remember right, the F10D engine has only one sensor called the Vehicle-Speed-Sensor - it's mounted in the transmission somewhere.
The ECU depends on the VSS alone for accessing the speed of the vehicle.

[saket77]

Originally Posted by im_srini

Hi Saket,
Are you sure about the Speedo-Cable ?
If I remember right, the F10D engine has only one sensor called the Vehicle-Speed-Sensor - it's mounted in the transmission somewhere.
The ECU depends on the VSS alone for accessing the speed of the vehicle.

Speaking from my experience of Zen. Though different from F10D (it's G10B) but I believe the speedometer of Wagor R is also mechanical (?), & driven by a cable.
In this case, the best I can think of is a bad speedo cable and the worse may be the VSS gone kaput.

[Jeroen]

Originally Posted by raksrules

So i created an account on several international car forums, especially honda ones and posted my query. I got a free OBD code checkup done so I did get the error code but it gave me multiple reasons online for the issue. I was convinced I had to spend some good amount of money. Moreover an inspection was due soon and a car with check engine light wont pass inspection from what I knew.

One comment on one of the forums was a very simple one. Someone suggested me to properly close the fuel lid on my car and wait for a day. I gave it a shot and voila the next day the light went away.
Then after few months same thing happened, light came back, i shut off the lid properly and it went away.
So i then got the rubber gasket changed around the fuel tank lid as the mechanic mentioned to me that the pressure is not adequate and that is why the check engine light is coming on. No issues ever after the rubber ring was changed.

Good example. When the MIL/CEL comes on there is no need for panic. Unless you notice your car/engine behaving differently, or all of a sudden a pecular sound, it is very likely to be something relatively simple. And you can continue driving. And if the number of Indian cabs I frequent with the CEL on is anything to go by, most people do in India. But in the USA and in most countries with stringent regular emission checks it will fail its MOT or whatever it is called in the respective country. So ultemately you need to get it sorted. If you care about the environment you get it sorted quickly, regardless.

But sometimes those simple things can be a real bugger to troubleshoot and find An OBD analyzer is really important because it is likely to at least point you in the right direction or possibly put you straight onto the trouble spot so to speak.

Going to manufacturer/model specific forums is a great idea as well. There is some practical knowledge on this forum. But compared to the specialized forums in the USA and Europe it is very limited. I find here in India a lot of talks about troubleshooting and a lot of advise and opinions, but very few have real hands on experience. In the west, many men, and some women, enjoy working on their cars (new, old, classic) themselves. So there is an awfull lot of very practical experience on the those forums. Getting parts and tools is a lot easier too. Easy to rent specialized tools. too. One of the the Dutch Jaguar user forums I'm a member of, has invested for instance in a couple of OBD analyzers. Members can use it for a small nominal fee! Other members provide technical support on how to use, how to interpret the results etc.

Some car manufacturers even support the various clubs and forums with special workshop days, parts deals, etc. I've helped organize a few what we called "get your hands dirty" events for the Dutch Alfa Romeo Spider Register. We had the use of a proper professional workshop. Members could bring in their car and do maintenance or fix problems themselves, assisted by our Register Technical Committee and the workshop's professional car mechanices. Use of all tools, lifts, analyzers, plenty of parts etc.

Jeroen

[bhp]

I have a 2010 VW Passat 1.8 tsi.

The engine emission control light has been there on the dashboard on and off. Its there now since a week.

Had send it to VW ASS and they reported a weak fuel pump for which i am not totally convinced since car is running absolutely fine at all speeds. Then Got it scanned locally.

It threw up two error codes :-
1) P2185 - Engine coolant temperature sensor on radiator G83 (signal too large)
2) P2237 - O2 sensor positive current control circuit bank 1 sensor : open

Anyone who has experienced the same and solutions towards this problem.

[vishnu-man]

Originally Posted by saket77

Bingo! We have located the problem then! Get the speedo working, and this light will go away. Most likely a bad speedo cable is the culprit. The light is on due to conflicting reports to the ECU. The speed sensor is telling the ECU that the vehicle is in motion, but the speedometer says 0KMPH and the ECU is registering an error. Hope I have not confused you.

Edit: A screen shot of the relevant part of my car's manual:

My friend got his Wagon-R's speedo cable fixed at an MASS and the light doesn't show up anymore. The info you gave was not confusing, rather helpful.
Thanks for your analysis!

[saket77]

Originally Posted by vishnu-man

My friend got his Wagon-R's speedo cable fixed at an MASS and the light doesn't show up anymore. The info you gave was not confusing, rather helpful.
Thanks for your analysis!

Thanks for the update. Glad to hear the good news that the problem is fixed.

Regards,
Saket

[s_pphilip]

In what is a recent run following the extended period the car ran on a weak battery, the instrument cluster on the Fabia 1.4 Tdi PD seems to be celebrating Diwali, as now this "malfunction light" has come up on a trot after the recent ABS sensor lights coming up suggesting ABS sensor replacement.

Took it to my regular Bosch workshop and he mentioned yesterday some inlet motor which failed (I shall post more details tomorrow), do note I drove the car to this workshop after using the car for over 150 kms on Sun, this came up suddenly on Saturday night when I resumed my drive after a break. The car had no problems starting and drove efficiently, of course I made it a point to drive cautiously and at just enough speeds to run in that gear, I dropped the car at the workshop on Monday morning and all the while the car went about doing its usual business except for this "malfunction light".

Now the big question bothering me, is the exaggerated usage of the car on that weak battery to blame for these recent turn of events, I was too foolish and adventurous in continuing my usage of the car with a weak battery for at least a further 100 cranks over the following 20 days after the battery died on me.
I jump started and continued using the car due to dearth of funds and time then, eventually changing the battery to a new Amaron, but my fear is, has some irreversible damage already occurred as some sensor continue to fail and lights up permanently in succession leaving me no breathing space.

The car was parked for about a month and I had to jump start following which at every crank all the diagnostic lights in the instrument cluster would momentarily go blank (zero) while all power was drawn to start the car, does that mean that these sensors started going kaput due to below critical power supply provided interim.

To help understand, on the initial battery you'd need to drive the car for about 10 minutes for the sun roof to open. Rest all electricals worked fine from start, in fact the power windows would roll down with some resistance without starting the car, also the car would need 2 cranks sometimes but most of the times it started on the 1st crank itself, only that it went through this reaction of all instrument cluster lights going off and then after the engine started only the parking brake light would remain on.

My point is everything was all right till the battery went weak, I know Skoda in particular depends a lot on batteries, can the knowledgeable sources share inputs on what are the components that get affected and what checks can rectify or reverse what could happen. I am seriously perplexed.

Maybe a separate thread warning the consequences of ignoring the battery health for ones with poor awareness, I somehow believe all these faults are due to the weak battery, some one please absolve me of this guilt.

[Jeroen]

Originally Posted by s_pphilip

I somehow believe all these faults are due to the weak battery, some one please absolve me of this guilt.

Modern cars with lots of electronics need good healthy batteries to run properly. If not, you might encounter all sorts of faults and niggling problems. Often not east to diagnose The chances of doing any permanent damage to the car, the ECU or any component or sensor due to a poor, or old and run down, battery are remote at best.

The easiest way to find out is to put a new battery in your car and sees what happens. Or at least get your battery checked out. And of course, always read the codes in case of problems before you start replacing stuff.
Jeroen

[s_pphilip]

Originally Posted by Jeroen

The easiest way to find out is to put a new battery in your car and sees what happens. Or at least get your battery checked out. And of course, always read the codes in case of problems before you start replacing stuff.
Jeroen

Thanks Jeroen, as mentioned I did change my battery to a new Amaron in about 20 days time and now a month later I have this intake manifold flap motor failure which has caused the check engine light to come on.

I was wondering whether it is due to the earlier weak battery as I prolonged my use and only after about 100 odd cranks replaced the battery, instead of doing so outright on realizing it was a bad battery.

Since this failure happened after I kept using the car with a bad battery (till then everything was fine) I was wondering whether the ABS sensor failure and intake motor flap failure could be avoided, had I changed the battery on time, as both the ABS sensor light and check engine light used to go dim/blank when cranking.
Back then I didn't think there could be any major repercussions of driving around with a bad battery except that I could get stranded for not starting.

On opening the intake, the Bosch service guy removed a quarter kilo of soot/carbon from the intake and said it is pretty common for all Skoda cars to accumulate this quantity.

Since I had also asked him to check the steering as it was quite hard, today he mentioned that the rack seals are leaking on the Electronic - Hydraulic power steering. He said there is some specialist in Mumbai who repairs racks else I'd need to replace it and it is very expensive.
He removed everything and cleaned it but also mentioned it has this slight leak on both sides, however after the cleaning it is relatively smoother now, I am still contemplating on my next move here.

He advised to sell the car as Skoda's are famous to throw up a plethora of problems on a trot, I however don't fancy selling it as I like Skoda's, though these days it spends more time getting the mechanics attention. Unless it puts me in a compromise, I have decided to repair everything slowly and continue driving it.

A friend had mentioned that "Any Skoda would drain your resources, wait and watch" and I had denounced the saying, stating that if driven/maintained well it should not, I thought I can take care of it, sadly I am loosing traction and am fighting to maintain my side of the statement, I hope I don't become the object of ridicule as its commonly said that its not smart to buy a Skoda unless born wealthy.
I am looking forward to a lot more years of trouble free ownership.

The car is a joy when everything works as intended, so a few bad days I can easily overlook for the positive happiness it gives, I love the car more than myself and it carries the TBHP "love cars, live cars sticker" which to me is like how people represent their religious faith.

[Jeroen]

Originally Posted by s_pphilip

Thanks Jeroen, as mentioned I did change my battery to a new Amaron in about 20 days time and now a month later I have this intake manifold flap motor failure which has caused the check engine light to come on.

I was wondering whether it is due to the earlier weak battery as I prolonged my use and only after about 100 odd cranks replaced the battery, instead of doing so outright on realizing it was a bad battery.

I would think it unlikely that this particular failure was a result of a weak battery. I'm trying to think of something that could get damaged due to a weak battery, there is probably something, but this isn't likely to be one of them.

Low voltage or currents doesnt do permanent harm. Too high often does.
Jeroen

[s_pphilip]

Originally Posted by Jeroen

I would think it unlikely that this particular failure was a result of a weak battery. I'm trying to think of something that could get damaged due to a weak battery, there is probably something, but this isn't likely to be one of them.
Low voltage or currents doesnt do permanent harm. Too high often does.
Jeroen

Thanks Jeroen, since I have gone through many of your posts noting your practical and theoretical grip, this absolves me of some guilt feeling for not changing the battery on time (though I would be at complete peace if on time), maybe this is a random failure, though even the Bosch service guy said it is not a common part to fail in Skoda's, he works on a lot of VW/SKoda cars.

I checked T-BHP for steering rack leaks and manifold flap motor failure and did not come across any threads which means these are not parts that commonly fail, why did it fail in the Skoda I don't know.

Going through Briskoda I came across this post: http://www.briskoda.net/forums/topic.../#entry2227780.
which talks about the Fabia needing a more powerful battery than the one recommended which is the cause of failures in due course.
The mechanic said this is very small leak, is there some sealant that can plug the leak. Going through some threads I came across this link for a leak fix:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/sis.html?_...d=310053996719.

You mentioned that there are other parts that could fail due to low battery, what are they, maybe I should get them checked as well, related parts like alternator etc.

[Jeroen]

Originally Posted by s_pphilip

You mentioned that there are other parts that could fail due to low battery, what are they, maybe I should get them checked as well, related parts like alternator etc.

Well, there might be, but it's a very long shot. Occasionally, you see things like this: http://www.optimabatteries.com/en-us...amage-starter/

So in case a low voltage causes something to work incorrectly (mechanically). something like this could happen. But on electronics (so sensors etc) I don't think you need to worry at all.

Jeroen