[gkveda]

Hello all
I have grand i10 automatic transmission car 2017 (Torque converter}model. Recently, there is a peculiar problem when I put the car into reverse gear(R mode). Here is the detailed description of the problem. Request the experts on this forum to let me know the cause and probable fix

Scenario 1: Start the car from car parking garage in the morning and engage R mode. Car moves back with out any issue. Once the car hits the road, put the car in D and drive forward. Car moves forward without any issue.
(No issues during cold start)

Scenario 2: Car has run more than 15-20 kms(meaning engine has reached optimal operating temperatures). Put the car into R mode and press accelerator. Dashboard clearly display R In the cluster. However, the Car behaves as if it is in neutral. meaning, accelerator sound raises but car does not move.
After 2-3 attempts of raising the accelerator, (very lightly) there will be a buck sound (a small thud sound) after which car jerks and starts moving back. After this, if I shift the gear to D or P or N and back to R, there is no problem again. It just obeys the gear position. This issue occurs randomly. There is no specific pattern.

Now, to fix the issue, I met with Hyundai ASC and asked them to diagnose the problem and resolve. As usual, the problem did not occur in their presence even after 4-5 trips and test drives . Since they could not reproduce the issue , they started analysis as below:

1. They initially thought it could be due to faulty solenoid and scanned the car. All solenoids were found ok(there were no issues in any of the solenoids)

2. They checked oil level using dip stick method and said oil is only less by 1-2 mm and it should be fine for and 1-2 mm less than the mark does not matter

3. They checked battery level and it was found 62%. The SA said that battery voltage level is low and may be this could be the reason for solenoid to malfunction

Confusion started now. I asked his senior if battery could be a cause for this delay in engaging reverse gear. He responded, in iAMT battery voltage variation can cause the solenoid malfunction but not in torque converter.

They argued for 2-3 mins and finally suggested me to

A. Change the battery (battery is original 2017 manufactured excide)
B. Add and topup some transmission oil

If the issue persists, they asked me to go back to them for reproduction of this issue and they will do deep dive

I am not convinced with both above solutions since they them selves are not confident the issue can be resolved with above recommendation

Request you all to let me know your thoughts on how to proceed

[audioholic]

Can you try completely replacing the ATF? Is the ATF degraded which makes it lose viscosity at higher temps hence not engaging reverse correctly? Thats what I can logically relate to. If replacement of the ATF isnt solving the problem then you have to look deeper into the transmission oil pump. Since you say the issue is only with delayed engaging of reverse, I feel the oil is the culprit.

[It's Magic]

Originally Posted by gkveda

Recently, there is a peculiar problem when I put the car into reverse gear(R mode).

I had a similar problem with my manual Grand i10, where sometimes the reverse gear wouldn't engage on the first attempt. The engine would just rev after pressing the accelerator, but nothing would happen. However, if I put the gear in neutral or first and then re-engaged the reverse gear, it would slot in without any issues. As this was a very rare occurrence, I never really brought it to the service centre notice, and it never really bothered me.

Now, when I read your post, I remembered it and thought of mentioning that the problem might not be specific to automatic transmission.

I think I read about this issue either in the official Grand i10 review or in some forum discussion a long time ago. Unfortunately, I can't find it now.

[rayjaycleoful]

Originally Posted by gkveda

Hello all
I have grand i10 automatic transmission car 2017 (Torque converter}model. Recently, there is a peculiar problem when I put the car into reverse gear(R mode). Here is the detailed description of the problem. Request the experts on this forum to let me know the cause and probable fix

Scenario 1: Start the car from car parking garage in the morning and engage R mode. Car moves back with out any issue. Once the car hits the road, put the car in D and drive forward. Car moves forward without any issue.
(No issues during cold start)

Scenario 2: Car has run more than 15-20 kms(meaning engine has reached optimal operating temperatures). Put the car into R mode and press accelerator. Dashboard clearly display R In the cluster. However, the Car behaves as if it is in neutral. meaning, accelerator sound raises but car does not move.
After 2-3 attempts of raising the accelerator, (very lightly) there will be a buck sound (a small thud sound) after which car jerks and starts moving back. After this, if I shift the gear to D or P or N and back to R, there is no problem again. It just obeys the gear position. This issue occurs randomly. There is no specific pattern.

Do you have an aftermarket music system/ reverse cam/ reverse sensor etc. installed?
I faced the same issue after changing to an aftermarket music system in my Creta. The reverse cam was sapping more power than it should have in layman terms. And delaying transmission shifts.

[boniver]

You can try replacing the battery and ATF since both are past their normal serviceable lives anyway, and then see what happens and how to go about it.

[gkveda]

Originally Posted by rayjaycleoful

Do you have an aftermarket music system/ reverse cam/ reverse sensor etc. installed?
I faced the same issue after changing to an aftermarket music system in my Creta. The reverse cam was sapping more power than it should have in layman terms. And delaying transmission shifts.

Recently(More than a month ago) I connected Android auto wireless adapter to USB port. Other than this, I don't have any other after Market gadgets in the car.

And I observed that the adapter is always available with green LED indicator on.
Do you think this can be a reason? I thought it's drawing current is minimal and hence many not have that impact

[Mr.Bentley]

Originally Posted by gkveda

Hello all
there is a peculiar problem when I put the car into reverse gear(R mode).

A rough guess, but I think there is some issue with gear synchronization.

I faced this in multiple manual transmission cars during my driving experience. Not an apt gearbox-to-gearbox comparison, but I see this even in my 2018 manual Grand i10 time to time (saw this even when the car was just a few months old).
Every time I'm in this situation, I try double de-clutching, and it works all the time.

Here's what usually happens:
I engage reverse gear, I gear slots into reverse position, but the car doesnt move - it just revvs there (sometimes there will be a little grinding sound).
I shift back to neutral again, do a small tap on the accelerator, wait for the revs to get back to idling range and then shift to reverse again. Now the car moves back as intended.

I've read somewhere that this is a common practice in vehicles (usually old trucks) which do not have a Gear Synchronizer.

I usually face this issue during cold starts, more specifically when I parked/stopped the car in motion in Neutral or with clutch pressed.
So every time I start the car, I engage first gear and go an inch or two forward and then shift to reverse. This worked 99.9% times.

I guess your gearbox is also doing something similar - trying to mesh the gears when they are not in sync, and that is taking time. AFAIK, this is not a wear and tear issue, but a quirk in gearbox design itself.

[gkveda]

Originally Posted by audioholic

Can you try completely replacing the ATF? Is the ATF degraded which makes it lose viscosity at higher temps hence not engaging reverse correctly? Thats what I can logically relate to. If replacement of the ATF isnt solving the problem then you have to look deeper into the transmission oil pump. Since you say the issue is only with delayed engaging of reverse, I feel the oil is the culprit.

This turns out to be too costly affair to experiment. One litre of ATF costs around 3k and dealer said it requires around 7-8 litres which turns out to be 24k .

If it is definitely THE problem, then I can change it but if it is experimental trial then, I need to think twice

[padmrajravi]

Originally Posted by gkveda

Hello all
I have grand i10 automatic transmission car 2017 (Torque converter}model. Recently, there is a peculiar problem when I put the car into reverse gear(R mode). Here is the detailed description of the problem. Request the experts on this forum to let me know the cause and probable fix

My Xcent AT with the same transmission sometimes takes a second more to shift to reverse. But in my case, this happens only during cold starts and after weeks of staying in one place. Once the car reaches operating temperature, everything becomes fine.

What is the total ODO reading of the car ? I think this is a solenoid problem itself.This is usually the case in all shift related problems in that AT box. There are many reports of the same problem in forums and youtube. But the problem coming out only after the car reaches operating temperature is confusing. A faulty ECM is another culprit. I think we had couple of people who had to replace ECM for gear box issues. Crazy Driver's Xcent went through a control module replacement. The ordeal is well documented here.

https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/long-...ml#post5297877 (Good things come in small packages - Our Hyundai Xcent SX(O) AT a.k.a Delicate Darling!)

[audioholic]

Originally Posted by gkveda

This turns out to be too costly affair to experiment. One litre of ATF costs around 3k and dealer said it requires around 7-8 litres which turns out to be 24k .

If it is definitely THE problem, then I can change it but if it is experimental trial then, I need to think twice

I think right now thats the cheapest available solution to you apart from what has been done so far. If its a solenoid then the ASC should be willing to replace them individually which will also mean replacing ATF. So either case, new ATF is needed.

You can try aftermarket ATF which might cost you less. But since another member pointed out towards a common issue with the solenoid, perhaps this should also be looked into and replaced during ATF replacement.

Originally Posted by It's Magic

I had a similar problem with my manual Grand i10, where sometimes the reverse gear wouldn't engage on the first attempt. The engine would just rev after pressing the accelerator, but nothing would happen.

Now, when I read your post, I remembered it and thought of mentioning that the problem might not be specific to automatic transmission.

.

Seriously? Even if the behaviour is similar, there is no relation between this issue in an AT compared to MT. Its like comparing apples to oranges.

[Jeroen]

I would at least check what happens when you change the battery. With the engine cold the resistance of the solenoid is low. As the engine and its surrounding warms the resistance increases. A battery at its end of its life might give problems then. It’s a well known phenomena on starter motors that won’t work properly on warm engines in combination with warm battery.

See if you can borrow somebody’s battery.

Good luck

Jeroen

[sagarpadaki]

Originally Posted by gkveda

This turns out to be too costly affair to experiment. One litre of ATF costs around 3k and dealer said it requires around 7-8 litres which turns out to be 24k .

If it is definitely THE problem, then I can change it but if it is experimental trial then, I need to think twice

I do not think 8 liters will be needed. Check your user manual. There will be a good amount of old oil remaining inside the transmission assembly even after you remove the drain pan and filter.

The amount of fluid that is drained is measured and the same quantity is put back with an additional 200 ml for the new filter.

Check the ATF fluid spec. See if it is available in aftermarket for cheaper from reputed brands.

[chaotic]

If you are still running a 2017 battery, it is way past it's prime. You must replace it even if it is not the issue.

Thus I'd recommend getting a new battery ASAP and see if it resolves or reduces the frequency!

My guess is that the solenoid is weak, thus anything less than perfect voltage means it will take time to build enough of a field to move the valve.

A new battery may be able to solve the problem completely in the short term until the valve fails completely. (which could be years as well!!)

[Joli]

Not wanting to hijack your post but off late, I've noticed that my 2018 Creta diesel AT when moving from parked position, has a very harsh gear lever action. It takes a bit of force to move it from the park to reverse. Once the oil was warmed up, all is okay. Under harsh acceleration, the shift to third is a bit obvious and so is shift up to fifth.

It may be noted that this issue happens even when the engine, and I assume, transmission oil have reached their optimum temperatures. The ATF was changed 15k kms before, however the transmission oil filter is still the same one that came with the car. The car battery is only 8 months old as well.

Originally Posted by sagarpadaki

I do not think 8 liters will be needed. Check your user manual. There will be a good amount of old oil remaining inside the transmission assembly even after you remove the drain pan and filter.

The amount of fluid that is drained is measured and the same quantity is put back with an additional 200 ml for the new filter.

Check the ATF fluid spec. See if it is available in aftermarket for cheaper from reputed brands.

Exactly. 7.2l is what they say for the diesel Creta. However, the old oil will barely be 4 litres. Keep a litre more just for safety. Try Mannol SP-IV, available at a much affordable rate on Amazon. You may also contact them directly on +91 755 811 9911. Kindly note that I have no affiliation with them, however I have got my ATF from them and hence the suggestion.

[TurboKat]

Originally Posted by It's Magic

I had a similar problem with my manual Grand i10, where sometimes the reverse gear wouldn't engage on the first attempt. The engine would just rev after pressing the accelerator, but nothing would happen. However, if I put the gear in neutral or first and then re-engaged the reverse gear, it would slot in without any issues. As this was a very rare occurrence, I never really brought it to the service centre notice, and it never really bothered me.

Now, when I read your post, I remembered it and thought of mentioning that the problem might not be specific to automatic transmission.

I think I read about this issue either in the official Grand i10 review or in some forum discussion a long time ago. Unfortunately, I can't find it now.

I own a manual transmission Grand i10 and faced the same problem too. This issue persisted till I got the clutch assembly replaced, flywheel resurfaced at a lathe shop and changed the gear oil. It's been 1.5 years since I got this done. Haven't faced the issue after that. The Servo gear oil provided by the ASC is downright crap. I would suggest you to get either ZIC 75W85 GL4 fully synthetic or Petronas Tutela Technyx GL4+ gear oil.