[sri32]

I own a 2015 Jaguar XF 2.2 L with 50k Km on the Odo. Serviced by Jaguar less than 2K km ago and given a clean chit.

It was running fine till then, with no warning lights or noticeable issues when driving, such as gears slipping or any weird noises during shifts.

But all of a sudden last week, it refused to start or even crank one evening.

Had the car towed and after inspection, the Jaguar SA says the likely reason is a transmission oil cooler failure which has allowed coolant to mix with the transmission oil, causing the transmission to fail completely and also blow a fuse in the process which was the reason the car wouldn't start.

The recommendation is to have the entire transmission replaced as a flush or a rebuild won't work. The cost of a new transmission is prohibitively expensive.

Doing my research online, this does not seem to be a common issue with the Jaguar, which has the solid ZF8 transmission. Even failures of the oil cooler (more common) don't seem to be something that commonly causes a complete transmission failure in the car, especially in less than 2k Km after being inspected and serviced at the dealership.

Any advice on how to proceed with handling the issue and getting the car back on the road? Unsure if there is a possibility of a rebuild I did look up used transmissions from Europe which are reasonably priced, but coding the TCM to the car maybe a challenge.

Also, any possibility of writing to JLR and trying to hold them accountable in some way for the uncommon issue (especially at 5k Kms) or their negligence in spotting any symptoms?

Thank You.

PS: First time posting here, apologies for any errors in structuring the post.

[ajmat]

Originally Posted by sri32

But all of a sudden last week, it refused to start or even crank one evening.

Had the car towed and after inspection, the Jaguar SA says the likely reason is a transmission oil cooler failure which has allowed coolant to mix with the transmission oil, causing the transmission to fail completely and also blow a fuse in the process which was the reason the car wouldn't start.

This was a common fault and happens due to corrosion. It used to happen to a lot of Mercedes C classes. Ideally, this should have been detected when traces of oil appeared in the coolant. If detected earlier, the cooling matrix could have been replaced in time.

[GTO]

You need to take the car out to a competent independent garage for getting a second opinion, and seeing if the gearbox is repairable or not. Authorised dealer workshops never repair - they only replace.

Worst case, if it indeed needs replacement, be open to finding a used gearbox from a salvaged XF. But that's the problem with buying a low-volume model. Salvage XFs won't be as commonly available as say, popular sedans from Mercedes & BMW. You'll have to dig deeper.

Please keep this thread updated as it will help others.

[sri32]

I will keep the thread updated. I also just had a second opinion from a reliable independent garage in Chennai. They corroborated that the gearbox needs to be replaced.

As you mentioned, finding a used gearbox for an XF in India is fairly hard. Would it make sense to source it from Europe? Will there be much hassle, especially on the customs front, if I have it shipped here?

Also, is there any point in trying to escalate the issue with JLR, considering the car was serviced less than 2K Km ago and had no indications whatsoever about the issue before it suddenly failed to start?

Thank you.

Originally Posted by GTO

You need to take the car out to a competent independent garage for getting a second opinion, and seeing if the gearbox is repairable or not. Authorised dealer workshops never repair - they only replace.

Worst case, if it indeed needs replacement, be open to finding a used gearbox from a salvaged XF. But that's the problem with buying a low-volume model. Salvage XFs won't be as commonly available as say, popular sedans from Mercedes & BMW. You'll have to dig deeper.

Please keep this thread updated as it will help others.

[lamborghini]

Originally Posted by sri32

I will keep the thread updated. I also just had a second opinion from a reliable independent garage in Chennai. They corroborated that the gearbox needs to be replaced.

As you mentioned, finding a used gearbox for an XF in India is fairly hard. Would it make sense to source it from Europe? Will there be much hassle, especially on the customs front, if I have it shipped here?

Also, is there any point in trying to escalate the issue with JLR, considering the car was serviced less than 2K Km ago and had no indications whatsoever about the issue before it suddenly failed to start?

Thank you.

A very good independent who maintains luxury cars maybe able to source it new/used for you.
That being said, if the car has been maintained by A.S.S all through - try having a word with JLR India if they can do any goodwill towards the costs of the same.

[Akshay1234]

Do you have any pictures of the amount of coolant that has mixed, as in what kind of sludge has come out of the gearbox?

If it had mixed so much, you should have noticed rougher shifts, jerks etc before it reached a point of failure.

I believe you can change the oil cooler (need to ensure diagnosis is correct) and then flush the system a few times (which may be slightly expensive as ZF8 oil isn't cheap), and then try running the vehicle.

Only post that should you look at getting a used gearbox, which will be difficult but not impossible to find.

[Jeroen]

Sorry to hear about your problems, what a pain!

You need to find somebody who knows what they are doing. First of all, you need to pull the codes! Any diagnosis without codes is useless. You need somebody with a Jaguar specific OBD reader. Lots of the transmission codes are Jaguar specific, so a general or simple code reader won’t see them! Ask me how I know!

The ZF8 is a pretty robust box by and large. Taking them apart is a thing though and it requires special tools and quite some knowledge and experience. You can source most if not all parts of these boxes, but it might be very difficult in India. Finding somebody who has the knowledge and tooling to open it up, is likely an even bigger challenge.

But if somebody can do a proper diagnosis with the box still attached that might be a good way forward. It should be easy enough to diagnose the oil cooler failure. If that has caused all the problems, it might be possible to revive the box with a proper flush. Which means you need to find somebody that has a real flushing machine. Just putting new transmission fluid in, running the engine and draining and filling it won’t do.

If you do get a second hand gear box. I am not entirely sure, but on many Jaguars that would also require reprogramming of the TCM and possibly ECU. Again, that requires a very special OBD piece of kit! Sometimes the box and TCM are interdependent. Better make sure how this works.

You might want to try and also check a Jaguar forum. I read up on my Jaguar almost daily on this one

https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/

Good luck!

Jeroen

[ssjr0498]

Sorry to hear about your ordeal! There are a lot of folks in Delhi, who are experts in repairing ZF's. So getting yours done or replaced should not be a difficult task. That said, it is imperative that you find a good FNG and get the codes scanned and the car checked.

[ads295]

Hello, and sorry to hear about your gearbox "failure".

There are 2 ways to approach this, the analytical, methodical way, or the A.S.S. way (replacing the entire gearbox).

The latter approach is not a good idea to me at all, and not just because of cost. These cars are incredibly complex, and believe me, they have the infrastructure, but skill-wise, they are actually worse off than your FNG. They have the knowledge and the tools to do this but they just won't be able to do it. Worst case the gearbox might fail AGAIN and yet they won't take any responsibility for the same (ask them for a written guarantee on the replaced gearbox for even 3 months, and see their response.) There are many threads here on tBHP about people having their transmissions and engines completely swapped yet they still failed because the root cause was not fixed.

The first option is how I would go about it. First of all take the car back from the ASS because it's a liability keeping it there. Don't crank or run it. Find a garage that is willing to host the car for 2-3 months (discuss and negotiate that beforehand). Whenever you move the car, ensure that the driven wheels stay stationary (use a dolly). Keeping the gearbox in N does not mean you can just push or tow the car with all 4 wheels on the ground (the manual should have instructions). Then perform step by step diagnosis.

First off, I would check the actual condition of the oil + water that has mixed. The oil cooler is a part of the engine radiator, just that they have separate circuits for trans oil and engine coolant to flow. If there is indeed mixing, then it should be there on the engine coolant side as well. Drain the coolant and check it. Take out the radiator, pressurize it with air, and check for leaks to understand how it happened. (You can check what I've done with my Sonata AC's cooling coil here (My Pre-Owned 2005 Hyundai Sonata 2.7L V6 | Ownership Review, Restoration & TLC).

Let's assume there's a flaw and the radiator/cooler has failed. The next step is to remove the oil pan of the transmission and take a look. If you're lucky, the pan is accessible. Doing this will not mess up any electronics or other hardware and is completely reversible. Open it up and see the extent of the damage. Is there shrapnel in the oil pan? Preserve it and post pictures. Is there anything obviously, majorly damaged in the trans valve body or the oil circuit? If your mechanic is feeling bold, remove 2-3 covers and parts of the mechanism (but ONLY to the point where he's confident of being able to put it back together - nothing drastic!). My hunch is that nothing major should have failed, since there were ZERO symptoms from your side. (The fuse might have saved you actually).
As you may have guessed by now, anything the ASS will do will hamper your analysis (they're sure to have drained the oil already so you won't be able to study that), so it's critical to move the car from there ASAP.

IF there are no major observations to report, it's time to experiment.
Source a good condition radiator first (have it tested if you found a used one). You may not be able to find one specific to the Jag - don't worry, you can use any oil cooler, just that you may have to source an oil cooler for the trans and a radiator for the engine coolant separately, and find some way to accommodate them on the car (just for the testing phase only). Use good quality hoses and clamps, and you should be fine.
Fill 'er up with oil, refill the engine coolant, replace the blown fuse, and start the car (you shouldn't have started the car at any time up till this point.) Check for error codes, listen for any erratic sounds (switch off the car immediately if heard), and go for a drive if everything seems normal. Keep an eye on the engine temp and also the dash for any intermittent error codes.
If the fuse blows again, that's another thing to get to the root cause of. The garage will help you there.

At any point, if things seem off, then you'll looking at a transmission rebuild or replacement. We can discuss that when it happens. But if things seem OK, at best your gearbox's life has shortened but you're OK to go for now.

As an enthusiast who's rebuilt a car from ground up, I know that things are not always what they seem. Given your complete absence of symptoms, I have a strong hunch that your gearbox is at least driveable and that there's nothing wrong in the first place! You'll need to spend a few hours at a garage and oversee this personally (don't take anyone's word for it - you should be there and see the oil cooler and trans oil pan opened up in front of you). But on the flip side, you might end up saving a lot of money.

Good luck.

[gauravdgr8]

Originally Posted by sri32

The recommendation is to have the entire transmission replaced as a flush or a rebuild won't work. The cost of a new transmission is prohibitively expensive.

I sent you a PM. Please check it out. This is a FNG in Noida, however you can call him and check.

[autocratic1107]

Why don't you try Karsenz Chennai which is an independent garage servicing all types of luxury vehicles? I service my Volvo S60 there regularly and they are quite good and reasonable. Better to have a second opinion before you decide on the remedial fix for the issue. Karsenz are based out of Guindy industrial estate, please ping me in case you need their contact details.

[deepakc]

Any updates with regards to your Jaguar XF? Since I also have an XF, so I’m curious as to whether you were able to resolve the issue.