[Kar_Om]

Originally Posted by TB16

Hi, if it's not too much to ask, can you post a picture of your bill. I would like to get an idea for the CVT Service parts. I'll be taking my Amaze CVT for service soon. Thanks.

Hi, apologies, currently do not have the bill handy with me as i am out of city. I clearly remember only CVT oil was replaced and the oil grade details can be found in owner's manual. In my case, it was Honda HCF-2 transmission fluid. Nothing apart from this was touched. They charged labour charges under general fitment category for oil replacement.

[ads295]

This is a nice thread, learnt a lot about other AT gearboxes.

@OP:
I think you're taking more worry on your head than you need to, frankly. The overfilling and the excess removal was done without measuring from what I understand, and this is a problem, but it's no biggie.
You already know about the overflow plug, so as long as your levels are OK, the job is done!

The bulk of Hyundai's cost in the ₹20k+ oil change is the oil itself, not the labour. I tried sourcing SP-III from them when buying ATF for my Hyundai Sonata and the cost was ₹2,400/L. This is down to lengthy supply chains more than anything else - the same oil costs approx $7 for a quart (0.95L) in the US for example.

I second all the Honda CVT owners who've posted here - the CVT fluid change is recommended, the ASS recommends you do it, and it doesn't cost much. We own a '17 Honda Jazz CVT and the process went by smoothly (or perhaps too smooth? Who knows if these ASSs actually do anything.)

Originally Posted by Jeroen

Drain & fill is only marginally better than just not refreshing.
What you need is a flush, which requires special flushing equipment, special flushing cleaning agents and knowledge/compence of the mechanic.

Sir, I fully agree with your post that a proper flush + refill is the ideal way of going about things, but lack of knowledge and the hardware required (the suction pump being the main thing) are what keeps us from doing flushes. I even purchased a flush clean agent only to realise I don't have the rest of the tools necessary to perform a full flush.

That said, there is an alternate line of thought that says flushes are what actually bring up the old debris, and that sometimes debris is actually what is allowing the clutch discs to grip! This is perverted logic but it makes sense.

I respectfully disagree with your opinion that drain+fill is nearly the same as not swapping the oil at all. Changing out the actual oil that circulates throughout the transmission, going through the valve bodies ("brain"), the clutch packs, and the filter, should definitely help trans longevity and shift smoothness.

As an aside, dropping in a link here (My Pre-Owned 2005 Hyundai Sonata 2.7L V6 | Ownership Review, Restoration & TLC) for my own recent ATF oil drain (phase 1) done on my Hyundai Sonata. Phase 2 will occur after I've put some 200-300km on the car.

Originally Posted by F150

Is ATF change applicable for Skoda Rapid TDi DSG ?
I spoke with the workshop manager for Garve Skoda in Pune he says it is sealed for life and says it is applicable only for petrol vehicles. When I told him it is the same gearbox DQ200, he has no clue.

Of course he has no clue, they run away from anything that has even a little margin for risk! They'd rather you swap out your DQ200 for a new one when this one fails, haha.
Some preliminary research indicates that the dry-clutch DQ200 has not one but 2 oils - one for the trans itself and the other for the mechatronics (thank God for the Germans!). Check out the below videos that are very informative:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZflg1tcOZQ

- Trans oil change

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jVuoxYEXJHY

- DSG Mechatronics oil change

If you'll see the videos, you'll see that there's nothing inherently "high-tech" involved in the oil change - no fancy gizmos, no OBD code reading, no rocket science knowledge. However it does need care and meticulousness - measuring the amount of oil drained, for example, keeping a record of that is key. It's also apparent that these gearboxes need oil injected into them with a syringe - not a bad idea actually, that way it's easier to keep accurate track of how much oil is put in.

From what I can surmise in my 10 minutes of video watching, you should be able to do this with an FNG in not more than 1 hour if you have everything ready.
Look for the oil grades you need to buy (both oils are different) and do it.

[Jeroen]

Originally Posted by ads295

Sir, I fully agree with your post that a proper flush + refill is the ideal way of.

That said, there is an alternate line of thought that says flushes are what actually bring up the old debris, and that sometimes debris is actually what is allowing the clutch discs to grip! This is perverted logic but it makes sense.

I am not sure how many automatic clutch discs you have seen? Because if you look at them you will understand that debris will make them work worse! Have a look at that link I posted earlier. My friend Raymond shows the clutch plates and talks about them. Autobox clutch plate are essentially made of very fine emery paper. They are stuck on polished metal rings. The clutch comprises of multiple of these rings. Any debris between the two plates makes the clutch loose grip.

Maybe there are friction clutches that do well on debris. But I don’t know of any? How do you think that works?

Originally Posted by ads295

I respectfully disagree with your opinion that drain+fill is nearly the same as not swapping the oil at all. Changing out the actual oil that circulates throughout the transmission, going through the valve bodies ("brain"), the clutch packs, and the filter, should definitely help trans longevity and shift smoothness.

You need to flush to get the debris out. A lot of that will be deposited in corners and dead spaces. Does no harm. If you don’t flush, but only drain and fill, the new oil might lossen up the debris and then you have a problem.

On modern oils, this tends to be less of a problem. You don’t have to believe me, but talk to a specialist like my friend Raymond how does this for a living. Rarely a month goes by, without a car being brought in with autobox problems. Very often after it was drained and refilled. Some boxes are more susceptible to it than others. The more complex the more likely it might cause a problem. Statistically you are correct in that drain and fill should be better than not doing anything at all. The longer you wait, the bigger the chance of this problem happening. And when it does happen, it usually means the box needs to be opened up, parts will have been damaged.

Obviously, if the car manufacturer recommends drain and fill intervals there is no problem following that instruction.
However, my comments are related to all the filled for life “slush boxes” out there.

I am an engineer at heart. I don’t believe in short cuts, unless the short cuts are fully understood and I am convinced there can be no adverse effects.

Jeroen

[arjithin]

Originally Posted by ads295

That said, there is an alternate line of thought that says flushes are what actually bring up the old debris, and that sometimes debris is actually what is allowing the clutch discs to grip! This is perverted logic but it makes sense.

I am hearing about the "debris allowing clutch plates" to grip for the first time. Heard about (anecdotedly) slipping issues when thick and old oil in high mileage cars that never got a ATF service is changed with new thin and clean oil, but that is to do more about the viscosity of oil than debris. ( Again I don't have first hand experience on this so can't say it's true or false).

The key is to get regular & periodic ATF flush than a flush way late with very high mileage. Hope that makes sense.

[sagarpadaki]

Originally Posted by arjithin

I am hearing about the "debris allowing clutch plates" to grip for the first time.

This is true. This is in scenario where the ATF is not replaced for a long distance, say 1 lakh kms, and then the ATF flush is carried out. Since the ATF is in use for 1 lakh kms, the clutch plate friction material would have worn out and dispersed in the ATF. These friction material debris floating around in the ATF provide the necessary friction for the transmission to grip and work. When a flush is done (not a simple drain and replacement), all these debris are also lost. This results in transmission slip. Hence it is very important to drain and fill (not flush) the ATF at the proper intervals say every 50k kms.

[Chhanda Das]

Lack of knowledge and the reluctance to help/guide the customer properly is the type of attitude that makes my blood boil with anger. I am a Creta 1.6 petrol AT owner and I can totally understand your anger/anguish/frustration at the whole fiasco.

It maybe too late but maybe you can guide them armed with the proper knowledge in future. For that can you please mention the engine (cc) and the fuel type of your Creta ? Since you mentioned "sealed for life ", I am assuming that yours is a petrol Creta which leads me to believe that your car has the same engine-transmission combination as mine but please correct me if I am wrong and then we can proceed further.

[Joli]

Originally Posted by Chhanda Das

Lack of knowledge and the reluctance to help/guide the customer properly is the type of attitude that makes my blood boil with anger. I am a Creta 1.6 petrol AT owner and I can totally understand your anger/anguish/frustration at the whole fiasco.

It maybe too late but maybe you can guide them armed with the proper knowledge in future. For that can you please mention the engine (cc) and the fuel type of your Creta ? Since you mentioned "sealed for life ", I am assuming that yours is a petrol Creta which leads me to believe that your car has the same engine-transmission combination as mine but please correct me if I am wrong and then we can proceed further.

Mine is the 1582cc, diesel-AT, 2018 SX facelift model that came without wireless charging option. We may have the knowledge but it is no patch to the "experience" posed by the mechanics. Their egos get hurt if we poke our noses in their business.

Honestly if I would have known that Sehmbi doesn't even have a ramp, I would have skipped the visit to them. Seeing their working conditions makes me wonder how is it that they repair automatic transmissions and seemingly efficiently.

[alpha1]

Do we have a consensus on what needs to be done as maintenance for automatic transmission gearbox and what is prohibited?

I have 2012 Elantra 1.8 SX with slushbox, and going through this thread has made me thoroughly confused.

[comfortablynumb]

Here's another thread on the topic:

https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techn...aled-life.html (Why you should periodically change your Automatic Transmission Fluid (even if "sealed for life"))

[Joli]

Originally Posted by alpha1

Do we have a consensus on what needs to be done as maintenance for automatic transmission gearbox and what is prohibited?

I have 2012 Elantra 1.8 SX with slushbox, and going through this thread has made me thoroughly confused.

Will suggest you get it done through someone who knows how it is done. Can be ASC or FNG.

[ads295]

Originally Posted by F150

Is ATF change applicable for Skoda Rapid TDi DSG ?
I spoke with the workshop manager for Garve Skoda in Pune he says it is sealed for life and says it is applicable only for petrol vehicles. When I told him it is the same gearbox DQ200, he has no clue.

Hi

This post shows exactly what you're looking to have done, albeit in a TSi.

https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/offic...ml#post5796129 (Volkswagen Vento : Test Drive & Review)

Aditya

[alpha1]

Originally Posted by Joli

Will suggest you get it done through someone who knows how it is done. Can be ASC or FNG.

This thread does not exude any confidence on both!

[Sumedik]

Based on my experience in the tricky world of ATF changes in India here are some best practices:

1. Find out the correct spec transmission fluids and change interval for you car by yourself. If the owners manual is mum about this, try to find the transmission model and try to find the information from other car manual/online sources which use the same transmission. DO NOT go by service advisor's recommendation.

2. Do multiple rounds of drain and fill. Most Indian ASC/FNGs do not have the expertise to do proper flush.

3. Measure the drained fluid volume and replace with exactly the same volume. Overfilling and underfilling is equally disastrous.

4. Modern synthetic transmission fluids are much more robust that yesteryears' mineral oil based products and has longer change intervals.

5. Do not go for "multi spec compatible ATFs". Always use the EXACT spec transmission fluid.

6. If the car does not a fill hole and dipstick, try to locate the fill bolt to fill in. Once again, internet is your friend based on your transmission model number.

Hope this helps.

[rroy92]

Originally Posted by s4ch

Not quite true. I have a 2016 Scorpio S10 Automatic. The manual specifically mentions an ATF change at the 6 year / 60,000km service and mentions the quantity as well. I had got this done at Mahindra ASS without any issues and the already smooth TC became even smoother after the change.

In the Xuv700 manual the Transmission is marked as sealed for life. I believe it is the same for the ScorpioN.

[catchjyoti]

I just got my ATF change done for my Hyundai i20 CVT. The manual said to do it at 100k km. The service advisor suggested to do it at 65k km. But I decided to play it extra safe and got it done at 40k km.

Now, I do not know if it was an overkill. But I decided it was better to spend in thousands, than risk a transmission failure, and spend in lakhs.