[Joli]

Hi All,

This is my first post on this esteemed forum. I remember being a visitor since 2010 and a Team Bhp link being open at all times at my workplace (whichever offices I have worked with). A recent pre-owned car purchase made me write my own post. While it has been just 8 months since I bought the car, it has been quite eventful with my penchant of getting it done up as close to new as possible.

What all changes/replacements did I do after getting the car?

Front and rear suspension
Steering rack
Brake pads
Headlight bulb
Wipers (all 3 since this is a SX Auto)
Steering cover
Tyres (Yokohama Earth-1s)
Fluids (Engine oil, coolant)
Filters (Air, cabin, fuel, oil)

What do I wish to do in the future?

Change ATF
Change timing kit (car has run more than a lakh kms when I got it)

This post, as per the title, will focus on the ATF change

While a fluid replacement might seem absolutely normal, I was in for a shock when various sources quoted different prices/methods. This includes the ASC and I am loudly calling out Hyundai here for having the most absurd and weird protocol. Their service advisors have literally no clue how it is done, the cost and time taken. I enquired at 5 different ASCs and the cost of ATF ranged from Rs 400/litre to Rs 3500/litre. There is only one ATF that they all sell and is supposed to be Hyundai/Kia SP-IV or ATF SP-IV. None of the dealerships have it in stock and the total cost for the replacement was quoted as a princely sum of Rs 25000. This amount varied with few even going to near double of this cost including labour.

The ASC approach, to me, seemed quite illogical and I tried FNGs. Surprise-o-surprise. Even the ASCs were almost clueless and quote a timeline of 2-3 days. Most of them said that regular 75W90 gear oil can also be put and what not.

At this point in time, I happened to read a few mixed reports on Sehmbi Automatic Transmission Repair centre in Madh, Mumbai. Sehmbi had a good reputation for rebuilding transmissions and seemed like an ideal candidate that can be considered for my ATF replacement. Got in touch with them and was quoted Rs 5000 for the job along with valve body filter replacement. I confirmed that I will source the ATF as well as filter. Accordingly, got in touch with Mannol India and sourced the Hyundai/Kia ATF SP-IV at a fraction of the cost quoted by Hyundai. Got 6 litres whereas the manual suggests 7.1 litres. Hyundai/Mannol/Sehmbi confirmed that 6 litres is more than enough since these torque converters do not drain the entire old oil. This is also documented in the Sonata restoration thread.

Madh, as Mumbaikars may be aware, is at quite a distance from most of the places and I am put up in Thane. Did the 2 hour trip on a weekend after taking appointment. The owner, Harjeet, wasn't in. However his service advisors were ready and they promptly took in the car, hoisted it using jacks (yes, no ramps) and started removing the debris guard. Post that the transmission oil was drained.

The shocking thing is that the mechanic was doing this using a phone torch light and the collected oil wasn't even inspected. It was collected and an attendant took it and filled a 5-litre engine oil jar. The approximate quantity as observed by me was around 4 litres. Mind you, the service advisor neither the mechanic were interested in checking the old oil quality or debris. Thankfully, while the oil smelt slightly burnt and was darker than the ATF I had purchased, there were little to no debris.

The oil that I had bought, was then used. All 6 bottles No quantity check or anything. On my insistence, post filling the oil, we took a trial and ran a scanner. Everything checked out. However, I felt that something was amiss. Yet they insisted that all was okay and charged a bomb for a simple drain-fill and shut it process.

Next day, not satisfied, I contacted Hyundai India. The service centre did try to assist but with the overwhelming number of vehicles that had come in for check-up in the Mumbai monsoon, it was next to impossible to get my car in. In the meanwhile, I called up Harjeet and informed him that this doesn't seem right. He agreed and asked me to bring over the vehicle or he can refund a part of the cost that he charged for the vehicle's ATF replacement. Later on, he called me and agreed to send his service advisors across to my office. Took them a hell lot of time to reach and finish draining the excess oil, though. Job done? NO

The oil was to be drained when the engine had reached its optimum temperature. However, Sehmbi folks did it when the engine was relatively cold. The mechanic was asking the advisor if he can plug in the drain nut now. The drain was done with the engine running - supposedly the right method.

Now, I am wondering if there is some damage to the oil seals due to the excess filling, will Sehmbi own up or it will be blamed on me? It may be noted that the transmission was running perfectly and changing the ATF was a preemptive measure.

Few other things I noted about Sehmbi is that while they claim to repair, they don't perhaps have right SOPs or protocols in place. While you expect an 80% good service from them, I don't think they perform to even 30% of it. Especially for something as simple yet critical like an ATF change. Customers are not even informed of the entire or the know-how. I was told about the valve body filter replacement and accordingly I procured this rare part from MOBIS. On reaching the workshop, I was informed that this is a much more complex process and will involve dismantling the transmission and keeping the vehicle with them for almost 2 days. This was unacceptable, especially when I travelled the entire length to get it done the same day. To his credit, Harjeet later purchased the filter from me.

The service advisor, the first one I encountered was an absolute disaster. He seemed least interested. Was suggesting that Mannol 8202, ATF for DCT, can be used for my Creta too . He mentioned that they had been using the same ATF for many other cars. Wonder how many vehicles he must have damaged.

Harjeet is extremely attentive but a medical crisis meant that he couldn't be at that garage. I had immense faith in Sehmbi going by their online reviews. However, all this fizzled out post my two experiences with them. You go there with the assurance that these are AT experts. What do they say about meeting your heroes? Well, it stands true in this case.

Total damage to the pocket including ATF and labour - Rs 10k. Damage to the transmission: Uncertain, Damage to peace of mind: Permanent.

Mods: Please change to an appropriate post or merge with an existing post as deemed right.

[CSA]

Originally Posted by Joli

This post, as per the title, will focus on the ATF change

While a fluid replacement might seem absolutely normal, I was in for a shock when various sources quoted different prices/methods. This includes the ASC and I am loudly calling out Hyundai here for having the most absurd and weird protocol. Their service advisors have literally no clue how it is done, the cost and time taken.

Hello
Kindly checkout this link for information regarding ATF for Hyundai Cars on there website.

https://www.hyundai.com/in/en/connec...ansmission-oil

Hyundai India website specifically mentions price, grade and quantity for each and every car with Automatic Transmission.

Order specific grade Transmission Oil for your car through Hyundai ASC and change it. Changing Transmission oil and Oil Filter is ridiculously simple method any mechanic with some experience can change it and you can also watch on youtube yourself for guidance.

Mannol is also a great brand I changed my 2007 Honda Accord Power Steering Fluid as all Honda Cars require specific Power Steering oil designed for use in only and only Honda Cars. I purchased Mannol Honda PSF from Amazon.

If your Transmission Oil is at specific level after warm up I think there is no issue.

[Joli]

Originally Posted by CSA

Hello
Kindly checkout this link for information regarding ATF for Hyundai Cars on there website.

https://www.hyundai.com/in/en/connec...ansmission-oil

Hyundai India website specifically mentions price, grade and quantity for each and every car with Automatic Transmission.

Order specific grade Transmission Oil for your car through Hyundai ASC and change it. Changing Transmission oil and Oil Filter is ridiculously simple method any mechanic with some experience can change it and you can also watch on Youtube yourself for guidance.

Mannol is also a great brand I changed my 2007 Honda Accord Power Steering Fluid as all Honda Cars require specific Power Steering oil designed for use in only and only Honda Cars. I purchased Mannol Honda PSF from Amazon.

If your Transmission Oil is at specific level after warm up I think there is no issue.

Referred this and that's how I was aware of the cost and related stuff. My post is about Hyundai service personnel not knowing about these regular things. Actually, these aren't regular for them. Most of them have not even done an ATF change in the last two years (told by a technician at an ASC). Even the so-called transmission experts seem to have less information. This post is also to alert folks about the so-called "experts".

ATF filter change isn't an easy-peasy job in the Creta. The filter is located right in the middle of the transmission and hence at a difficult-to-access spot. The ATF change is relatively very simple if done in the right manner. Unfortunately, as per the guidance I received from various sources, Creta doesn't have a transmission oil gauge. The simple method is to fill in whatever quantity came out. If there is an excess, an overflow plug is provided and while the vehicle is running, simply remove it. Any excess, will come gushing out. Same can be done through the drain nut as well. Mine was done in the latter fashion as the overflow plug wasn't coming loose and since it is plastic, any further force will have resulted in it breaking.

[Joli]

Adding photos. They had a no video/photo policy. These pictures do not depict the entirety of the process or their workplace. However, it does give an idea of the ATF used and how it was filled.

[locusjag]

I had tried changing my erstwhile (i.e., sold) automatic transmission-equipped Maruti A-Star's ATF around 2-3 years back. When I spoke to Maruti's service centers, their responses were hair-raising - some said no oil changes are ever required, period. Some gave me the creeps by not listening to my insistence on the grade of ATF required. One service engineer even felt insulted that I was suggesting the ATF, the washer, the oil filter to replace etc.

FNGs - some in Chennai said they could do it. Some said they can't. My trusted FNG did it ultimately but it turns out they filled too much oil...

This makes me wonder - should we altogether avoid buying AT cars?

[Geo_Ipe]

What does the owners manual say about the ATF replacement intervals & grade of oil to be used?

My wife's Honda City CVT went in for its routine service at the ASC and the SA proactively recommend a CVT oil change. I was not sure about the same, so referred the manual and found that CVT oil change is recommended every 2 years!! I spoke to my trusted car guys & got a similar recommendation. As we hadn't changed it in the previous 6 years, went ahead and gave the green signal.

[CSA]

Originally Posted by Joli

Referred this and that's how I was aware of the cost and related stuff. My post is about Hyundai service personnel not knowing about these regular things. Actually, these aren't regular for them. Most of them have not even done an ATF change in the last two years (told by a technician at an ASC). Even the so-called transmission experts seem to have less information. This post is also to alert folks about the so-called "experts".

ATF filter change isn't an easy-peasy job in the Creta. The filter is located right in the middle of the transmission and hence at a difficult-to-access spot. The ATF change is relatively very simple if done in the right manner. Unfortunately, as per the guidance I received from various sources, Creta doesn't have a transmission oil gauge. The simple method is to fill in whatever quantity came out. If there is an excess, an overflow plug is provided and while the vehicle is running, simply remove it. Any excess, will come gushing out. Same can be done through the drain nut as well. Mine was done in the latter fashion as the overflow plug wasn't coming loose and since it is plastic, any further force will have resulted in it breaking.

I understand your concern all ASCs are run by lala type people. They are run for profit and sales target achievement, ASCs have direct support of service manuals from manufacturer but service advisors or mechanics do not have time for proper work in these complex machine because they are busy in profit making for there lala.

Independent workshops do not have this kind of support or service manuals other than experience

I do not know why in your area Hyundai ASCs do not know much about Transmission Oil change because in my city Hyundai ASC changed ATF of Grand i10 no questions asked.

I hope all goes well with your car.

[GTO]

Seriously, most authorised workshops are dumb on the topic and never know anything about ATF fluids. What you need is either a really great independent mechanic, or an expert service advisor who knows his stuff.

I had gotten the fluid change for my 530d done at the 7-8 year mark, even though BMW said it's "sealed for life" (nothing mechanical is sealed for life). ZF on their own website said the 8-speed AT needs a full service at the 7-8 year mark and even has a kit for the same (fluids, a filter and all).

Stupid stuff I have read / heard on the topic:

- Honda dealerships filling torque-converter fluid into CVTs and completely destroying them.

- Dealerships who don't know about ATs at all and saying "it doesn't require any oil change"

- Brands like BMW, Ford etc. themselves saying their AT transmission is "sealed for life". That is the highest form of misleading car owners as we usually trust OEMs blindly on their maintenance instructions.

That being said, with the increasing market-share of Automatic Transmissions in the market, knowledge will only grow. 10 - 15 years ago, AT sales were minuscule. And of course, once service advisors see the big bucks they can charge for ATF changes, you can be sure they will start changing fluids before its due

[Joli]

Originally Posted by Geo_Ipe

What does the owners manual say about the ATF replacement intervals & grade of oil to be used?

My wife's Honda City CVT went in for its routine service at the ASC and the SA proactively recommend a CVT oil change. I was not sure about the same, so referred the manual and found that CVT oil change is recommended every 2 years!! I spoke to my trusted car guys & got a similar recommendation. As we hadn't changed it in the previous 6 years, went ahead and gave the green signal.

1 lakh km or 10 years, whichever is earlier. My Creta is now at 1.17 lakh km. I got it exactly at 1.07 lakh km.

A friend recently got a used 2017 vintage Honda City. He was told to get the ATF changed next year at the Honda ASC. Every three years and on, customers are advised to get the CVT fluid changed. It is again a simple process and the labour charges are barely Rs 500 (very very reasonable). The entire process is completed within 2-3 hours and the bill including fluid is Rs 3k, akin to a manual transmission fluid change. Since they use only CVTs, Honda ASCs are supposedly better in dealing with ATF changes or so I hear.

[Joli]

Originally Posted by locusjag

This makes me wonder - should we altogether avoid buying AT cars?

Not really. ATs are here to stay and are gaining preference over manuals for the sheer convenience they offer. The lackadaisical attitude of FNGs and ASCs is what doesn't cut the mustard with me. No one is willing to refer the books. We become guinea pigs where they experiment and then maybe learn.

What gets my gut is the fact that Hyundai wants to charge in excess of Rs 20k for a fluid change This too for a mass market car.

[sagarpadaki]

I think it's high time we get access to workshop manuals that have details of the ATF change procedure. Without having the details, I would not be comfortable with doing the oil change. At least a few Youtube videos which show the ATF change on the model of the car would be necessary in absence of the workshop manual. Not to mention, the exact spec of the ATF. I am appaled by the lack of knowledge with some technicians who say it is ok to fill MT oil into an AT or do not even make an effort to find out the right spec and grade of ATF that needs to go into a particular car!

Additionally, whatever oil quantity comes out must be measured and the same plus maybe 200ml to account for oil in filter, if the filter was changed, must be put back in. I do not understand how a service center/FNG can drain X liters of oil and put more than X liters back in. This is basic common sense - what quantity goes out, same will go in!

[Joli]

Originally Posted by sagarpadaki

I think it's high time we get access to workshop manuals that have details of the ATF change procedure. Without having the details, I would not be comfortable with doing the oil change. At least a few Youtube videos which show the ATF change on the model of the car would be necessary in absence of the workshop manual. Not to mention, the exact spec of the ATF. I am appaled by the lack of knowledge with some technicians who say it is ok to fill MT oil into an AT or do not even make an effort to find out the right spec and grade of ATF that needs to go into a particular car!

Additionally, whatever oil quantity comes out must be measured and the same plus maybe 200ml to account for oil in filter, if the filter was changed, must be put back in. I do not understand how a service center/FNG can drain X liters of oil and put more than X liters back in. This is basic common sense - what quantity goes out, same will go in!

Mirror these thoughts. It is appalling to say the least. ATF availability and the cost is also ambiguous.

[TheGodfather]

I had a similar experience when I went in to change the ATF of my Skoda Rapid in its 4th year service. Although the incharge of the service centre was aware of the process, the parts list between two systems of Skoda differed. The online maintenance schedule for 4th year service mentioned an ATF fluid as well as filter change. However, there internal service system recommended only ATF fluid change. Additionally, they mentioned that the extended warranty will be only valid if the services are done as per their internal system and didn't agree to change the ATF filter even on my insistence.

It's really surprising how even ASCs and official systems are having contradictory information.

[sachin_cs]

This has come up at a right time, I’m quoting my post from another thread-

We have bought a Preowned Grand I10 automatic 2017 Asta O and the gearbox oil has been not changed as per service records. The service centre has no clue on the oil replacement interval however they have quoted 25k for the transmission oil change. My car is a 2017 model with 37000 kms on the odo, should I change the AT fluid or not, if yes then what’s the recommended interval.

[Kar_Om]

Originally Posted by Joli

Since they use only CVTs, Honda ASCs are supposedly better in dealing with ATF changes or so I hear.

Agreed, in month of March this year i got my Jazz CVT oil changed through Honda ASC and i was out of service center within 2 hours. Total bill was within Rs.3K including material and labour.

Considering car like Creta is selling like hot cakes these days, surprising to hear about Hyundai ASC being unaware of process of changing ATF, let alone fluid being out of stock and the costing part.