[Sidchh]

Originally Posted by Jaguar

How to do this in cars with Electric parking brakes?
"R" sits between N and P. What I observed in the Creta is that the EPB automatically disengages (per MID) the moment the gear lever moves to R. It then engages back when the lever moves to P. I am hoping that the software is intelligent enough to handle these scenarios when EPB or Auto hold is used.

The same card I got when taking delivery of my N Line, but not with the Seltos interestingly.

To answer your EPB question, what I do in the Kia is
D—>N
Manually pull EPB
N—>P fast
Hope that answers your query.

[Rohitthebest]

Super informative article.
I waited for VW to change to TC from DSG before buying the much loved Polo GT (TSi).
Finally when they did the same after pandemic I guess I was the first customer to book the vehicle before even taking the test drive.
As I write this today my car has already crossed 60K KMs with only regular service costs and no breakage so far in last almost four years (to be completed in Nov 2024).
Fingers crossed.

And after taking a few test drives on New Celtos and Creta I can vouch that their DCT is no match to VW's TC at least as far as performance goes.

[Sidchh]

Originally Posted by Rohitthebest

Super informative article.

And after taking a few test drives on New Celtos and Creta I can vouch that their DCT is no match to VW's TC at least as far as performance goes.

You mean the DCT is faster or slower?

[Rohitthebest]

Originally Posted by Sidchh

You mean the DCT is faster or slower?

Slower.
On paper a lot must have changed but I feel it isn't any different than their earlier offerings.
Not for enthusiasts at least.

[07CR]

Originally Posted by Sidchh

As far as my research goes (please don't hold this against me, I am not sure if this is correct), the first car rocking a dual clutch transmission that launched in India was the Volkswagen Polo back in 2013 with the 1.2 TSI (feel free to correct me in the comments, I am genuinely interested in knowing).

I guess it was Ford and VW that made first DSGs for Indian masses. Ecosport too (launched around May 2013) had the DCT in that Ecoboost engine.

Originally Posted by Sidchh

So, talking about the DCT of the Kia, it feels much more refined and shifts comparatively smoother, but still manages to be sportier somehow. The DCT in the Kia feels like it wants you to go fast, especially in sports mode, but it also doesn’t mind if you want to drive sober.

Great thread, thanks for this. I too recently purchased a facelift DCT Seltos GT Line. I was replacing a Ecosport S TDCI, and therefore was looking for relatively sportier cars in AT avatar. I was staying clear of VW-Skoda DSGs because, relatively they have had much higher issues than Hyundai-Kia and albeit still do report more issues. CVT and AMTs were out of contention from the word GO. That left only the Hyundai Kia alternatives.

I was pleasantly surprised with how smooth the shifts felt in Seltos, especially the eco mode. It's very hard to tell for a passenger when the car shifts. On the contrary, when you are up for game, the DCT is always very eager and provides the necessary downshifts too. In S mode of gearbox, it also holds the gears until I upshift. It's been 4K/4 months with my car, but there has not been a single transmission heating warning despite driving in stop-go Pune traffic.

Driving the Seltos back in 2019, and I was very disappointed with it's in city behaviour. The gearbox was very jerky in city and only Eco mode made it bearable. With the facelift, it's a drastic turnaround!

Originally Posted by vignesh207

Is this really required? If so why ? I come to stop at a red light and engage AutoHold and leave the transmission in D. Would this cause any trouble in the long run?

Originally Posted by Sidchh

The Care
1. Put it in Neutral on red lights longer than 10 seconds
2. Don’t surprise it! Going fast? Use the paddles, or ease the throttle in. Don’t tap the brakes repeatedly or harshly and then release.
3. Avoid driving using your brake (especially on an incline)
4. DO NOT rev up in N and then dump to D in an attempt to launch the vehicle
5. When parking the car, ALWAYS put it in N first, then parking brake, and then P
6. NEVER leave it in Park on an incline without the parking brake engaged (true for all AT)

About the care part, spot on with points 2-6. I would just share one small insight I have had based on my limited research regarding usage of Auto Hold and clutch life. Just like Vignesh mentioned, if you keep auto hold engaged, the clutch is automatically disengaged when the auto hold gets engaged. This effectively releases any pressure on the clutch plates and does not overheat the transmission. This happens not only with Hyundai-Kia but all cars equipped with Auto Hold. So this is the practice I follow at long stops-

1) I always have the ISG and Auto hold turned on.
2) Once I come to a halt, the Auto hold is activated and the car too turns OFF. Depending on the ambient temperature, the car will be OFF for about 15-45 secs. When the car is OFF, there is no pressure on the clutch plates and the transmission cools.
3) Incase the car turns on, then I shift to N (even this might not be needed, because of the Auto hold function, but to be on safer side I switch it to N).

Originally Posted by Sidchh

16 KMPL!!! How? Is yours the 1.5 or 1.4? Because I havent been able to get past 9 in the city with my Seltos.

I frequently manage a 11-13 KMPL in mixed Pune traffic. It even stretches to 16 Kmpl on low traffic roads and 18~ kmpl on highways. On my tankful to tankful calculations, the worst I have seen is 10.5.

[Sidchh]

Originally Posted by 07CR

Just like Vignesh mentioned, if you keep auto hold engaged, the clutch is automatically disengaged when the auto hold gets engaged. This effectively releases any pressure on the clutch plates and does not overheat the transmission. This happens not only with Hyundai-Kia but all cars equipped with Auto Hold. So this is the practice I follow at long stops-

1) I always have the ISG and Auto hold turned on.
2) Once I come to a halt, the Auto hold is activated and the car too turns OFF. Depending on the ambient temperature, the car will be OFF for about 15-45 secs. When the car is OFF, there is no pressure on the clutch plates and the transmission cools.
3) Incase the car turns on, then I shift to N (even this might not be needed, because of the Auto hold function, but to be on safer side I switch it to N).

I don’t use ISG because Delhi summers are torturous (also because I’ve heard it prematurely wears the starter motor, but I doubt that). But I wasn’t aware that cars automatically do that when Auto Hold is engaged (I still won’t be risking it but the more you know ). Other than that, I do agree that the Kia Hyundai DCT is super smooth, and a product worth considering.

[SeniorC]

Originally Posted by Sidchh

I don’t use ISG because Delhi summers are torturous (also because I’ve heard it prematurely wears the starter motor, but I doubt that). But I wasn’t aware that cars automatically do that when Auto Hold is engaged (I still won’t be risking it but the more you know ). Other than that, I do agree that the Kia Hyundai DCT is super smooth, and a product worth considering.

Kia Seltos ISG keeps the fan on with the engine switched off and if it finds the temperature out of set range, it automatically switches on the engine to power the AC unit. No torture at all. Coupled with Autohold, they save the DCT transmission from overheating.

DCTs have been there for decades. Only in India we find them new.

[Sidchh]

Originally Posted by SeniorC

Kia Seltos ISG keeps the fan on with the engine switched off and if it finds the temperature out of set range, it automatically switches on the engine to power the AC unit. No torture at all. Coupled with Autohold, they save the DCT transmission from overheating.

I’m aware, but I’d rather put it in N than have the AC turn off for even one second. I find it to be a hassle.

[Col Mehta]

Originally Posted by Rohitthebest

And after taking a few test drives on New Celtos and Creta I can vouch that their DCT is no match to VW's TC at least as far as performance goes.

That’s what I hear. I would get an opportunity to drive the 1.5 DSG in a few days time. Should help understand the difference.

[nikvint]

Hello,

I am in the market of buying used car, preferably Seltos or Creta Automatic. I have came across a 2019 Seltos GTX DCT Petrol, with 32K Kms. But I am scarred of DCT as it is out of warranty. What will be the cost of repairing/replacement in case any issue arises.

How can I check that, this particular car has Gear box issue.. Because, I understand that checking the health of gear box, in small test drive is not possible (correct me if I am wrong).

My driving is mostly in city with moderate traffic. Shall I go ahead in buying, if it does not create any issue in test drive of 5 to 10 kms.

Please advise. Thanks in advance.

[Col Mehta]

Originally Posted by nikvint

Hello,

I am in the market of buying used car, preferably Seltos or Creta Automatic. I have came across a 2019 Seltos GTX DCT Petrol, with 32K Kms. But I am scarred of DCT as it is out of warranty. What will be the cost of repairing/replacement in case any issue arises.

How can I check that, this particular car has Gear box issue.. Because, I understand that checking the health of gear box, in small test drive is not possible (correct me if I am wrong).

My driving is mostly in city with moderate traffic. Shall I go ahead in buying, if it does not create any issue in test drive of 5 to 10 kms.

Please advise. Thanks in advance.

A 4-5 year old “out of warranty” DCT? A big No! Even if you check the service history and find no red flags, it unfortunately just doesn’t give you any assurance that it won’t fail or give you troubles. Remember, DSGs/DCTs aren’t the best ones when it comes to reliability and you need to have a warranty cushion before taking a plunge (unless you really have that risk appetite).

Given that your primary use is within city, and if you really want to get a DCT, I would strongly recommend only a new car or something which has at least couple of years of warranty left.

Good luck finding your car .

[speed400]

Originally Posted by Sidchh

[b]

There are only a few things you need to keep in mind when driving a DCT to keep it healthy, and they might seem difficult to execute written down, but trust me, they become habits quite easily.
1. Put it in Neutral on red lights longer than 10 seconds
2. Don’t surprise it! Going fast? Use the paddles, or ease the throttle in. Don’t tap the brakes repeatedly or harshly and then release.
3. Avoid driving using your brake (especially on an incline)
4. DO NOT rev up in N and then dump to D in an attempt to launch the vehicle
5. When parking the car, ALWAYS put it in N first, then parking brake, and then P
6. NEVER leave it in Park on an incline without the parking brake engaged (true for all AT)

Could you elaborate on the reasons as well for these ? Like reasons as to why these steps work ?

[Sidchh]

Originally Posted by speed400

Could you elaborate on the reasons as well for these ? Like reasons as to why these steps work ?

Sure.
1. When you hold a DCT car in Drive while idling, since it is basically a fancy AMT, it holds the clutch in causing premature clutch wear.
2. When you instantly go full throttle, it takes everything working the gearbox (TCU, clutch etc) by surprise causing a very noticeable jerk which of course affects the workings of the gearbox if you make it a habit
3. The TCU is not as good as working the clutch in stop go traffic as an actual human being since a human being can see where as a TCU has to do guesswork based on the throttle and brake input, driving on half brake confuses the TCU as it doesn’t really know what to do (might be wrong with this one though)
4. Revving up in N and then dropping into D is simply a bad idea because you’re doing something to the box that it wasn’t designed to do or endure. If it was meant to launch it would have launch control. It WILL damage any gearbox be it a DCT, CVT or a Torque Converter
5. If you engage P then the parking brake, on an incline or generally too, it might cause the weight of the car to shift to the parking pawl as that is what locks the transmission and prevents the car from moving by physically intruding between the gears of the transmission
6. Same as 5, doing this repeatedly will for sure cost you a lot

I might be wrong with some of these, anyone who knows if I am, feel free to correct me

[Kanboy]

Originally Posted by Sidchh

The History
(feel free to correct me in the comments, I am genuinely interested in knowing). That, however, was a disaster and ended up ruining the image of the DCT for the Indian market..............
....... In fact, now that Hyundai Kia have addressed the few issues it had, I would recommend it even more enthusiastically.

Very well written thread with Almost precise facts, but absolutely right observations.

The introduction of Dual Clutches in India was by the VW group through import first and then mass produced for Skoda vehicles mainly the SUPERB in the mid 2005s or early 2006 then carried forward to the Laura and so on and so forth.

They were infamous for their MECHATRONIC Failures which is the brain of the DSG which would overheat. It was mainly due to erratic acceleration, being stagnant in D for a long duration of time without rolling forward i.e overheating of the clutch and in some cases due to no periodical service (VW/Skoda never asked customers to get their DSG OIL changed prior to 2015)

Well repairing a dual clutch transmission was and still is not an easy task too, specially if it was destroyed. As all DSGs are coded to the VIN no. so just fitting a new one was not probable without coding it adding everything to the hefty Price.

I am glad to see Hyundai/Kia giving out cards on the limitations of a DCT, wished VW would have thought of that in their early days to save the embarrassment.

Now the DRY Clutches and everyone here who says they are not for the Indian summer are absolutely right, they are a ticking time bomb, which by the end will blow. By babying it, you surely will increase life but one mistake and there goes the Fund. Dry Clutches are an obsolete technology for Dual Clutch Transmissions as their heat management is poor overall in theory.

Whereas, when it comes to the WET clutches the innovation to correct wear and tear and manage heat levels by adding oil coolers to them and updating the software have increased their life cycle. Their breakdowns have reduced and in cold climatic conditions like Europe and North America they are ALMOST performing at par with TC.

Over the period of time Dual Cluthes have gotten better and will keep getting better, but in my honest opinion the most innovation and changes will be seen in the TC transmissions as their reliability is undoubtedly the Best. Their shifts have gotten much faster, precise and smoother over the years retaining reliability for our weather conditions.

Though being a proud DSG owner, I daily drive a CVT to work and use the DSG for my long drives which includes a bit of Pedal to the Metal.
It is always a pleasure to drive a DSG nothing beats the sheer smoothness of it.

[nikvint]

Originally Posted by Col Mehta

A 4-5 year old “out of warranty” DCT? A big No! Even if you check the service history and find no red flags, it unfortunately just doesn’t give you any assurance that it won’t fail or give you troubles. Remember, DSGs/DCTs aren’t the best ones when it comes to reliability and you need to have a warranty cushion before taking a plunge (unless you really have that risk appetite).

Given that your primary use is within city, and if you really want to get a DCT, I would strongly recommend only a new car or something which has at least couple of years of warranty left.

Good luck finding your car .

Thanks a lot. Actually, I am in dilemma between TC & DCT. DCT is attractive as it gives you Turbo petrol and in GTX version you get all bells and whistle, like ventilated seats, Bose Music system, 360 Degree camera and what not. While it's IVT version is available in HTX version, which misses goodies mentioned above. My point is I am already getting GTX cat at around 13L, which is good 10L lower than new car. So whatever money is saved can be utilized in future repairs. Only question is whether 2019 1.4 petrol models are more prone to failure than current 1.5 Petrol? And what will be cost of repair?