[OffRoadFun]

Last few weeks have not been good, as the title suggests.

How it started:
We came back from around two week vacation and the batteries of both our cars were DEAD. Had to ask neighbors to carpool kids to sports classes over the weekend despite having two cars.

Eventually, I replaced the battery of my SX4 and was planning to do the same for Q5 (as the normal battery is not recommended). But had to take my car to farm in between for some important work and also thought the battery would be charged during the drive (not a bad assumption). The trip was great and so as the drive (may be will share the pictures and notes in another post). But next day, while driving I observed the warning that alternator not charging. I was stranded not too far from home, got a new battery as a back-up and drove back to home (night time). Next morning drove the car to the FNG. I also lost power steering power (it has hydraulic steering) which led me to suspect that serpentine belt was gone. While driving to the mechanic, turned off AC and music to save on battery and observed clunking sound especially at higher RPMs, indicating worn out bearing or the belt.

The mechanic confirmed the broken alternator belt and its debris was visible in the engine compartment.





Mechanic mentioned they will have to investigate why the belt broke, it usually does not I was told. The bearings could be worn out.

Later on, he called me to inform the tensioner was gone leading to belt broken and bearings also had to be replaced. Bill was around Rs 14k which I was OK with (what's the choice anyways?).

Not bad. When I went to collect the car, I took a test drive and heard clunking sound at high RPMs. I was disappointed as this was my third visit for this work. Upon opening the bonnet, the sound was from the engine. Not a good news.

Over the next few days, they opened the engine and finally digging into the problem, they opened and dismantled it completely and I was called to explain the issue(s)!


It was sad to see the engine out, though I know it is an old car. Still. I NEVER thought this will happen to my car. I have been servicing it regularly and lately have not been driving much. Anyways!!



Combustion was not uniform in second cylinder.


Broken parts



Broken piston ring.





Out of 16 tappets (valves, only 11 were functioning).
Timing chain had signs of impending damage, though not completely gone!

Boring needed to be done in couple of cylinders.


TLDR:
The engine had to be rebuilt.


Car has done 128k kms and I was hoping to use for few more years at least.

I did some research and also saw there were a few other cars in the garage which were going through engine rebuild (one BMW 530d, waterlogged and another C-class). He claimed engine will live for another 100k kms after reuild

The bill quoted was 2.6L!

I was not ready for a replacement car immediately.
My car usage for has declined a bit in last year as I started taking company cab to avoid driving in morning rush hour to avoid frustration. I loved the drives on high most now

Ironical as it may sound, I realized I needed a 200HP+ car after driving the Q5 2.0T (tuned to 255HP/410Nm), whatever be the usage.
I also realized, I need a car which I will need to put into rough use in my farm/offroad.

While buying this car (used, for less than cost of a Honda City), I had set aside 5L for any repair works which I did not really utilize.


With the factors in mind, I decided to bite the bullet and asked the mechanic to rebuild. I know not many would agree.

Will update this post once complete.

[GTO]

Good call . A little more expensive than I would've thought in the aftermarket, but if his quality is top-class, then it's well worth it.

We've seen how you use your car and take it all over, including on your farmlands. The replacement cost for your Q5 would be at least 20 - 30 lakhs in the used market, and 60-lakhs new.

I would do the same.

My Related Article (Want to sell your car because of repairs? Think again!)

Please do share the name, address & number of your FNG if you are super happy with his work.

[damodar]

Originally Posted by OffRoadFun

Car has done 128k kms and I was hoping to use for few more years at least.

I did some research and also saw there were a few other cars in the garage which were going through engine rebuild (one BMW 530d, waterlogged and another C-class). He claimed engine will live for another 100k kms after reuild

The bill quoted was 2.6L!

Is garage located in Bangalore? My friends F pace needs some engine repair work, like turbocharger and intercooler replacement etc. Can you post the google link of this place?

[sj_car_boy]

Hi, can you please share your FNG contact details - either on the thread or over a DM? Similar case with a 3.0 TDI.

I'm sure you've already thought about this - but I would pay lot of attention to the quality of parts that are going into the engine - pistons, con-rods, gaskets and timing kit.

Best way to check garage's credibility is to speak to other owners whose TDI engines have been rebuilt here. Emphasising on this - as I've heard a few horror rebuild stories.

[AKSarkar1]

I would do the same, spending around 3L for an engine rebuild for a car of this class seems reasonable for me. It also gives you peace of mind that you will be able to cover at least 1L+ kilometres after the rebuild. However, the one major caveat is that the people who are doing the rebuild should know their stuff.

2 of my friends have had their engines rebuilt, 1 has already clocked 50K Kms without any problem and the other sold off his car frustrated after niggles and issues post the rebuild

My advise would be to absolutely make sure that the people who are doing the rebuild know their stuff and the parts that are being put in are OEM quality at the very minimum.

All the best!

[OffRoadFun]

Originally Posted by sj_car_boy

Hi, can you please share your FNG contact details - either on the thread or over a DM? Similar case with a 3.0 TDI.

I'm sure you've already thought about this - but I would pay lot of attention to the quality of parts that are going into the engine - pistons, con-rods, gaskets and timing kit.

Hello
I am getting work done in Bosch (Yes motor, Ramagondanhalli Borewell Road Bangalore.

[OffRoadFun]

Update
My Q5 is back after the re-build. For now, all I can say the engine bay looks very clean.

Few early observations:

-- The car power is slightly more or same, definitely not lower than earlier. Acceleration is good. I am not revving it over 4000 rpm for now till 3k kms are completed

-- It seems to be slightly more noisier. At stops/idling (has DSG), there are a bit more vibrations than there were before the rebuild. Not sure if it is because it needs to run-in or is it due to from other sources like pumps etc or engine mounts need a fix. Mechanic has asked to observe for 1000km and come back if it persists.

-- Mechanic mentioned fuel economy will increase, need to observe for a few more tanks

Need to observe for next 3000 kms. Planning a farm trip in December, will see highway performance at higher speeds (~100kmph)
-- Regularly checking engine oil level/consumption because that can be earliest pointer to impending issues/leaks etc.

Will update the observations here.

[Jeroen]

I am a little confused. Am I correct in understanding that the V Belt broke due to a broken tensioner? There usually are no tensioner for the V-belt? Usually the dynamo just swivels and you push it out to tension the belt and bolt the dynamo down. On my Mercedes there is a tension mechanism, but once the dynamo is bolted down the tensioner as such will not do anything at all.

However, when I look at the images it looks like your engine suffered from a broken chain tensioner! That is something very different. It won’t cause the V belt to break, but it will most certainly lead to major damage to pistons and valves on most engines.

Not sure on this engine, but had they been replaced before as part of normal maintenance? What about the distribution chain. Had that been replaced, or what is it recommended replacement interval?

I would never ever trust a chain that had been running with a broken tensioner. There is no way of telling what forces it was subjected too.

Jeroen

[OffRoadFun]

Originally Posted by Jeroen

I am a little confused. Am I correct in understanding that the V Belt broke due to a broken tensioner? There usually are no tensioner for the V-belt?

My mechanic told me so and also mentioned that pulley bearings were gone too. I am not sure if it behaves in same way as you mentioned for your Mercedes.

Originally Posted by Jeroen

However, when I look at the images it looks like your engine suffered from a broken chain tensioner! That is something very different. It won’t cause the V belt to break, but it will most certainly lead to major damage to pistons and valves on most engines.

Not sure on this engine, but had they been replaced before as part of normal maintenance? What about the distribution chain. Had that been replaced, or what is it recommended replacement interval?

Jeroen

I looked at the timing chain, it was intact and so was the tensioner but as a precaution, both tensioner and timing chain were replaced (He mentioned timing chain did not look alright and runs the risk of going bad was not broken at the time).

Breaking of V-belt (serpentine belt) was just a coincidence may be, as you mentioned, they are independent systems altogether.

As per Audi, timing chain is not required to be changed for this 2.0T engine and so it was never replaced.

[OffRoadFun]

Update (and views appreciated):

After taking possession of Q5 with the re-built engine, I drove to the office in Q5 (not taking cab).

Observations:
I took engine oil reading after the commute, snapshot of the ones taken in evening are attached below (this was advised by the mechanic)



1. Started with engine oil comfortably high (see the top picture, marked day 1)
2. The reading was a bit inconsistent on 3rd
3. but on the 4th day, the reading went up again

(these are all readings from MMI, did not use dipstick and not sure if that can be done in 2.0T engine).

Then I took the car to the farm trip. Right before the trip, day #6, the oil level was decidedly lower than what I had six days back.

After covering around 100kms (kept speed between 100-110kmph, RPM generally below 3000rpm), I got a low oil level warning, asking to top up at least one liter.
Called the mechanic who said it might be a sensor problem also. I did not abort the trip, did 1L top-up and reached farm, stayed for two days.


While coming back, I saw the warning again (must be within 250kms of last top-up).
I did top-up and reached home, without any further warning (some 150 more kms).
The final oil level read by MMI is slightly above min level.

This looks excessively high oil consumption to me even though I am aware 2.0T is known for high oil consumption.

Will show to mechanic soon.

This does not look like a normal run-in induced consumption jump to me? As mentioned earlier, the vibrations are decidedly higher especially when engine is started.

Will this be gone after 1000kms plus one oil change? what could be wrong if not?

Appreciate any inputs.

OffroadFun

[Jeroen]

Originally Posted by OffRoadFun

Called the mechanic who said it might be a sensor problem also. I did not abort the trip, did 1L top-up and reached farm, stayed for two days.


This looks excessively high oil consumption to me even though I am aware 2.0T is known for high oil consumption.


This does not look like a normal run-in induced consumption jump to me? As mentioned earlier, the vibrations are decidedly higher especially when engine is started.

Will this be gone after 1000kms plus one oil change? what could be wrong if not?

Appreciate any inputs.

OffroadFun

Your story makes for a compelling reason to read the owner manual. Check if your engine does have a dip stick. In which case you don't need to rely on a mechanic telling you perhaps the sensor might be wrong. Although possible I would say not very plausible.

Vibrations showing up always need investigating, rather earlier than later. And no, an oil change isn't going to make any difference. It it does you have left the oil change way and I mean way to late!

Don't mess with low oil warnings. If they are true or not it needs to be seen too asap. If it is a low oil warning up your engine is consuming way to much oil. If the oil warning is not true you have an unreliable oil level warning which needs to be fixed asap, unless you are able to use a dip stick.

Good luck

Jeroen

[ananbanka]

Originally Posted by OffRoadFun

Car has done 128k kms and I was hoping to use for few more years at least.

Ironical as it may sound, I realized I needed a 200HP+ car after driving the Q5 2.0T (tuned to 255HP/410Nm), whatever be the usage.
I also realized, I need a car which I will need to put into rough use in my farm/offroad.

Hello OffRoadFun! Sorry to hear that you'd to get your engine rebuilt, I hope that the effort pays off with happy motoring!

Out of curiosity, I've read that engines from VAG are built to last 200 - 300K KMS. Do you believe that tuning the car to extract more power out of the engine lead to the premature failure? Also, if you don't mind sharing, where did you get the car tuned?

[sagarpadaki]

1 litre oil consumption in approx 250 kms of driving is definitely abnormal even considering running in. So is the rough idling on cold startup.

You need to get this investigated from the Bosch service center ASAP. Insist on thorough investigation. Unless there is a leak somewhere, they may have to open up the engine again to check the cause of rough idling and oil consumption.

[OffRoadFun]

Originally Posted by ananbanka

Out of curiosity, I've read that engines from VAG are built to last 200 - 300K KMS. Do you believe that tuning the car to extract more power out of the engine lead to the premature failure? Also, if you don't mind sharing, where did you get the car tuned?

I can't exactly pinpoint to engine tuning, it is possible. I have read on a few forums that instances of engine damage are higher on cars who have the engines tuned.

I would like to answer this way:
If I had to tune the engines (in similar situation) again, I would probably still go ahead and be gentle on the pedal, floor it lesser number of times and hit the redline may be less often.

I got the tuning done from engineering exponent in Whitefield.

[OffRoadFun]

Update:
The oil consumption after the engine rebuild kept on increasing rather than decreasing, rising eventually to an outrageous 1L/150km.
The re-build was just terrible!

The mechanic still asked me to drive for some more time to see if carbon buildup can fill-up the gaps which is of course BS. But I did not have much options.
The mechanic eventually said he can re-re-build the engine and upon sending the vehicle reported damage to oil balancer. He suggested buying the "lower-half" of engine from another engine and quoted 1.5L for the same. I did not have any faith in him and that's probably the end of this journey. This turned out to be an extremely shoddy job from the mechanic after spending 3L.

Car has been sent-off to another mechanic who will offer me something for clunker with a promise of a reasonable quote to fix the mis-steps of previous re-build. I don't have much hope.

So this is the end of it looks like. End of lots of fun in the car on long drives to multiple places, to my farm, off roading adventures. I had it tuned to 255HP/410Nm from stock 211/350Nm and only recently installed car multi-media with BT Android auto, new headlights. It ended a bit too soon only at ~134k kms which is kind of unlucky for modern engines I would say. A few pics, from beach to the mountains to orchards with my Q5. https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/trave...st-fruits.html (Rebuilding the Farm | Audi Q5, Offroading, Harvest & Fruits)

(meanwhile looking for a replacement)


On beach:


Rocks


Mountains





Another one at dusk:



In a mango orchard:



Farm and mountains:


And the final send-off: