[armaaan.in]

Originally Posted by Jeroen

Sorry to hear about your problems.
There might be something with the flywheel. There is nothing wrong with your synchronisation rings.
My money would be on an alignment issue and or mounting issue of the clutch and or gear box. When you remove the gearbox of a car that has done some good mileage, you need to take particular care in ensuring all the engine mounts and gearbox mounts are still good. Which to be very honest, at the mileage your car has done is unlikely. The problem is that you will never ever be able to get them to mount in the exact position as before. Over time they have become worn, sagged a bit and so on. So really you need to replace them.

Similar to your drive shaft and or cv joints where applicable. On some cars these can give similar problems and they should always be marked so when reinstalling they are mounted in the identical orientation as before.

This juddering will not get better by themselves. Neither will the vibration. The gearbox needs to be removed and a proper investigation into the root cause.

Don’t take this nonsense about “it will get better over time”. They made a mistake, and need to fix it.

Good luck

Jeroen

Thank you for your valuable input.

The Driver Side Drive Shaft was recently replaced during the last service at 119k km, along with the wheel bearing and one of the engine mounts. When I brought my car in for a clutch checkup, the service team thoroughly examined both drive shafts and mounts. According to their assessment, neither the drive shafts nor the mounts were causing any issues. They explained that the problem I was experiencing is common with new clutches. They mentioned that they had replaced several clutches before.

However, I remained unsatisfied with their explanation. The issue only occurs in the 1st and reverse gears. When I shift to 2nd gear, it functions normally.

I plan to have the clutch retorqued. Furthermore, I am considering escalating the matter to Maruti, and I will include a link to this discussion thread for reference. Additionally, I noticed that on the first morning start, the engine cranks for a second even after it has already started. This happened twice, yesterday and today. I had previously attempted to escalate the issue but was redirected to the Authorized Service Center (ASC).

[MinivanDriver]

Interestingly, I face a similar problem in my 1,30,000 KM run 15 year old vehicle running with original clutch. My vehicle is a manual transmission diesel. I have two observations on this. One is that it is intermittent or seasonal. For several months on end, it would not occur and then it would start and stay on for a few months. The problem is most apparent on cold starts in the morning. The most severe manifestation being when I have to stop and start on the upward slope of the exit ramp of my building after cold starting in the morning. Few years back I had the (very reputed) service center guys dismantle the clutch assembly and check. Nothing unusual was found and I was assured that there is good life left in the clutch.

[sagarpadaki]

Originally Posted by armaaan.in

However, I remained unsatisfied with their explanation. The issue only occurs in the 1st and reverse gears. When I shift to 2nd gear, it functions normally.

I plan to have the clutch retorqued. Furthermore, I am considering escalating the matter to Maruti, and I will include a link to this discussion thread for reference. Additionally, I noticed that on the first morning start, the engine cranks for a second even after it has already started. This happened twice, yesterday and today. I had previously attempted to escalate the issue but was redirected to the Authorized Service Center (ASC).

Since you have got the work done at MASS, please write a mail to customer care of MSIL. That will make the dealership sit up and take notice and they will stop fooling around with you.

All MGP parts have 6 months warranty. Ask them to fit a new clutch plate, pressure plate and release bearing to check if the problem is resolved. Like mentioned by me and others there are mainly two reasons


1. The mating between the flywheel and the clutch assembly is not uniform. Most likely caused by improper and unequal torque applied on the bolts that mount the clutch and pressure plate assembly to the flywheel assembly. The bolts have to be tightened in a criss cross or star pattern to the specified torque. The gap between the clutch plate and the flywheel assembly is a few millimeters and any improper tightening will have an amplified effect.

2. Flywheel has gone bad. I do not know if Ciaz has a Single mass or Dual mass flywheel. If single mass it can be resurfaced at a lathe. But I doubt if MASS would do it. Dual mass flywheel cannot be resurfaced. Single mass flywheel is also cheaper to replace.

The replacement of flywheel should be the last option.

[Jeroen]

Originally Posted by sagarpadaki

1. The mating between the flywheel and the clutch assembly is not uniform. Most likely caused by improper and unequal torque applied on the bolts that mount the clutch and pressure plate assembly to the flywheel assembly. The bolts have to be tightened in a criss cross or star pattern to the specified torque. The gap between the clutch plate and the flywheel assembly is a few millimeters and any improper tightening will have an amplified effect.

Excellent point! If it is not tightened correctly it will be misaligned and can cause all kinds of weird vibrations and judders.

You really need to follow the official instructions on this and have a proper calibrated torque wrench. If not all bets are off!

Jeroen

[MT_Hyderabad]

Having suffered juddering immediately after clutch replacement in my car, I can confirm that it will go away after a few months. I do not remember exactly when it went away as the car was rarely driven.

I also admit, it was a pain to take the car out of parking as high rpms had to be maintained to prevent the car from stalling.

[Jeroen]

Originally Posted by MT_Hyderabad

Having suffered juddering immediately after clutch replacement in my car, I can confirm that it will go away after a few months. I do not remember exactly when it went away as the car was rarely driven.

I also admit, it was a pain to take the car out of parking as high rpms had to be maintained to prevent the car from stalling.

As I said before. After a clutch replacement there should be no juddering and or vibration. Period. If there are, something has gone wrong. In most cases the juddering and or vibration will not go away, if anything it will get worse.

You need to ask yourself this question; how come the juddering did disappear? The answer is simple. Other parts worn accordingly. So you might have no judder, but you will have suffered additional wear and tear on other parts.

Again and again, replacing a clutch, or any part for that matter should not introduce judder or vibration. If it does and your mechanic tells you it’s normal he is either incompetent or taking you for a ride. You choice!

Jeroen

[MT_Hyderabad]

Originally Posted by Jeroen

As I said before. After a clutch replacement there should be no juddering and or vibration. Period.

Yes, I completely agree. No new car with new clutch judders.
The car in question was a rarely used car with not much value left. I would have wasted more time getting it rectified than living with this imperfection. Fortunately, this got resolved by itself.

I never knew that it could have impacted other components, otherwise I may have taken that extra effort. Thanks for informing.

[naadopaasaka]

For whatever is worth, in our S-Cross 1.3 MJD, juddering occurred in gears 1 and 2, typically on a cold start and reduced with driving. But then it progressively got worse. On the advice of Wheels Wisdom, the flywheel too was replaced and the problem disappeared.

[Jeroen]

Originally Posted by naadopaasaka

For whatever is worth, in our S-Cross 1.3 MJD, juddering occurred in gears 1 and 2, typically on a cold start and reduced with driving. But then it progressively got worse. On the advice of Wheels Wisdom, the flywheel too was replaced and the problem disappeared.

I believe the Cross has a dual mass flywheel. They do wear out and might need replacing. I don’t think they can be overhauled. They can start giving problems indecent of the state of the clutch and clutch assembly components.

Jeroen

[scorpian]

Originally Posted by Jeroen

I believe the Cross has a dual mass flywheel. They do wear out and might need replacing. I don’t think they can be overhauled. They can start giving problems indecent of the state of the clutch and clutch assembly components.

Jeroen

I don't think the 1.3ddis engine uses a dual mass flywheel.
The 1.6scross uses a dual mass flywheel and is a pain to source.

[Krouton]

Originally Posted by armaaan.in

Any insights or advice you can provide would be immensely appreciated. I'm truly at a loss and need your expertise to navigate this frustrating situation.

Thank you all for your time and expertise, and I look forward to your valuable input.

Best regards,

armaaan.in

Hello armaan

From my reckoning it's a fuel supply problem and not a clutch problem. Just consider using your car with 2 full tanks of premium fuel and if the juddering disappears, consider it a knocking problem. You'd simply need to change your injectors or even simple, just a fuel filter change, or maybe both.

We experienced this same issue, on my Swift AMT and I did get the clutch plate replaced at 35k kms for the same concern. It didn't help and I was left fuming at that unnecessary service.

After some time, I noticed the judders kept disappearing when I used any premium petrol and returned when I chose regular.

Did some research and changed the fuel filter (with obvious help from my brother) and it solved our problems. It did reoccur in about 10k kms, but premium petrol helps me overcome this "niggle" with ease. Try to find faith in the fact that premium petrol/diesel helps and in reality the quality of regular petrol/diesel is not that great. Also the new age engines and their knock sensors are meant to dissuade the new age/new car drivers #sarcasm.

I hope this post helps loads of people, cos I know how it kept ruining my drives.

Cheers!

PS - my first post. Saw this concern on my Google feed and felt it was my calling. Safe driving peeps!

[armaaan.in]

Originally Posted by naadopaasaka

For whatever is worth, in our S-Cross 1.3 MJD, juddering occurred in gears 1 and 2, typically on a cold start and reduced with driving. But then it progressively got worse. On the advice of Wheels Wisdom, the flywheel too was replaced and the problem disappeared.

Originally Posted by Krouton

Hello armaan

From my reckoning it's a fuel supply problem and not a clutch problem. Just consider using your car with 2 full tanks of premium fuel and if the juddering disappears, consider it a knocking problem. You'd simply need to change your injectors or even simple, just a fuel filter change, or maybe both.

The issue was traced back to the flywheel after a thorough inspection at a FNG. I promptly had it replaced, and since then, I haven't experienced any further problems.
As the issue has been resolved I request the mods to close the thread

[NikSin26]

I'm facing a similar shuddering issue on my 2016 ciaz 1.3 diesel. But the problem has been quite random, for almost 95% of the time the car behaves normally, but sometimes this shuddering as you go off occurs.
Last time I experienced this was after driving for couple of hours in stop and go traffic in the hills, but the problem went away the next day. There was no shuddering and car ran absolutely smooth.
Cab this be a sign to replace clutch assembly or something else. The car has done around 80k kms.
Any advice would be appreciated, thanks in advance!

[armaaan.in]

Originally Posted by NikSin26

Cab this be a sign to replace clutch assembly or something else. The car has done around 80k kms.

Shuddering could be a sign of a weak clutch assembly, but since it vanished the next day, there's no need for immediate concern. If the issue only occurs occasionally, I wouldn't suggest replacing it right now. My Ciaz's clutch was replaced at 131,000 km, and your car is still at 80,000 km, so it likely has another 25,000 to 30,000 km of life left, if not more. However, if you frequently drive in hilly areas where the clutch is subjected to more strain, or if the issue becomes more frequent, you might consider replacing it sooner.