[Tmittal93]

This is my first post here.

I got my XUV 700 AX7L Petrol from Indraprastha Mahindra Delhi on 17 may 2023 after booking on 07 October 21. Glad as i could be, the car has started to show issues after driving merely 350Kms.
The major issue being problem with EPB and Auto Hold.

Now before i go in detail, i searched plenty about the issue but couldn't find any discussion on same anywhere on net 😞

The problem arises during cold start and witnessed it first on 06 august and again on 09 august.

Once the car is parked and put in Park mode, the epb engages automatically, following which I turn off and exit the car.

However, when i cold start the car after 1-2 days, wearing seat belt, all doors closed, shift to D from Park, the car starts to move forward without me pressing the accelerator, while EPB is still engaged. The red light on epb switch glows and the dashboard shows epb still engaged. Yet the car starts to move forward. I have to press the brakes to stop it.

This only happens on cold start. Consecutive stop start, the car functions normally and does not move until i press the accelerator when D mode is engaged and epb is still active.

Now, normally, once you enter the car, put on seat belt and close the doors, turn the car on and shift to D mode, press accelerator, the car automatically disengages EPB and moves forward.

This still works fine but not at cold start.

Issue 2: the autohold problem.

Sometimes, the autohold despite being engaged and showing green on dashboard doesn't hold the car in place even on flat road. The car crawls forward if i leave it in autohold + D mode. This happens very less but does happen. I also make sure to press the brake fully so that autohold can maintain enough brake pressure and yet the issue arises.

Issue 3: beading near left orvm came loose: i used a strong double tape to stick it back but quite surprised beading falling loose on a brand new car.

Issue 4: the Mahindra A.S.S.- to get above issue checked, i called indraprastha service 13 times for appointment and in turn got one call back to book appointment. I started calling them at 10.30 in morning and was finally able to make appointment at 6 in evening.

Anyone here knows, what might be causing above EPB issue? The car should not crawl forward like this at cold start.

Also, can anyone advise on a good Mahindra service centre in Delhi?

[A.G.]

Originally Posted by Tmittal93

However, when i cold start the car after 1-2 days, wearing seat belt, all doors closed, shift to D from Park, the car starts to move forward without me pressing the accelerator, while EPB is still engaged. The red light on epb switch glows and the dashboard shows epb still engaged. Yet the car starts to move forward. I have to press the brakes to stop it.

It's surprising that the vehicle moves forward without pressing the accelerator which is the final step for EPB Auto release. Try the cold start with either the seat belt not fastened or driver door not fully closed and see if the EPB gets automatically released to narrow down the issue.

Originally Posted by Tmittal93

Issue 4: the Mahindra A.S.S.- to get above issue checked, i called indraprastha service 13 times for appointment and in turn got one call back to book appointment. I started calling them at 10.30 in morning and was finally able to make appointment at 6 in evening.

Tried booking a convenient slot from the With You Hamesha App?

Originally Posted by Tmittal93

Also, can anyone advise on a good Mahindra service centre in Delhi?

Sri Durga Automobiles in Moti Nagar - the service head Mr. K.K. Chauhan is a very customer centric person.

[ashvek3141]

This is the 2nd issue I'm reading on the E-brake of the XUV700 and it is quite concerning. This definitely is a major safety concern if your ask me! So gimmicky feature not working as required is still acceptable; but such failures are non-negotiable.

Not to forget, these issues are only from the BHPians who possibly are members or know of TBHP. There might or possibly will be so many owners across who'll be facing such issues and have no access to such a platform or don't know about.

[Tmittal93]

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Originally Posted by A.G.

It's surprising that the vehicle moves forward without pressing the accelerator which is the final step for EPB Auto release. Try the cold start with either the seat belt not fastened or driver door not fully closed and see if the EPB gets automatically released to narrow down the issue.

Tried booking a convenient slot from the With You Hamesha App?

Sri Durga Automobiles in Moti Nagar - the service head Mr. K.K. Chauhan is a very customer centric person.

1. The thing is epb doesn't disengage automatically in this case but car moves.. its like your manual handbrake is pulled but you press the accelerator so engine overpowers the handbrake..
EPB automatically disengages only after i press accelerator..

2. I will use the app next time

3. Will go to Sri durga next if Indraprastha doesn't resolve issue. They are a nightmare to deal with. 1.5hrs just to allocate a service advisor and then another 1 hour to take the car in and free me..

Originally Posted by ashvek3141

This is the 2nd issue I'm reading on the E-brake of the XUV700 and it is quite concerning. This definitely is a major safety concern if your ask me! So gimmicky feature not working as required is still acceptable; but such failures are non-negotiable.

Not to forget, these issues are only from the BHPians who possibly are members or know of TBHP. There might or possibly will be so many owners across who'll be facing such issues and have no access to such a platform or don't know about.

Yes, the issue is serious and the biggest problem is mahindra service advisor just don't understand it.. they kept arguing that the car has creep function and i kept explaining that i am aware of it but EPB should prevent car from creeping. The other advisor said that it is due to ESP.. i was like how will esp cause this??

Ultimately i had to go to service manager who finally appointed an engineer. He understood what i was saying and asked me to leave the car to check.

I hope my decision to buy this car over innova hycross was not a mistake. My brother advised me against it but heart over mind.. also hycross vxo was costing nearly 4L more and just didn't feel like a car of that price bracket from inside..

[ashvek3141]

Originally Posted by Tmittal93

Yes, the issue is serious and the biggest problem is mahindra service advisor just don't understand it.. they kept arguing that the car has creep function and i kept explaining that i am aware of it but EPB should prevent car from creeping. The other advisor said that it is due to ESP.. i was like how will esp cause this??

Totally agree on the lack of technical knowledge of the SA's. I can understand that the sales guys aren't technically sound (they should know the basics at least); but the saddest part is the service guys talk crap at times! I have faced this with Hyundai & Kia too. But the folks at Tata and M&M are on another level! Even though I have not owned any car from them, I have been closely associated with these guys (and heard from my friends too) and very well aware about the crap they sometimes bring to the table.

Anyway, push this very hard on them as it's a matter of concern. If you don't find a suitable resolution, take it up with the senior management at M&M. Your car costs a fortune my friend!

[NomadSK]

Originally Posted by Tmittal93

Anyone here knows, what might be causing above EPB issue? The car should not crawl forward like this at cold start.

True the car shouldn’t crawl ahead when EPB is engaged, specially when it’s almost a new car and assuming you are doing everything as mentioned in the owner’s manual. I’m ruling out mechanical issues, sensor issues, low break fluid, or worn break pads.

Technically This is how the EPB system works;

• If the EPB system detects any rolling after EPB is applied, the motor on caliper re-clamps the disc to avoid any rolling.
• As an added feature, to avoid roll away due the reduction in clamp force due to decrease in temperature, the EPB motor on caliper re-clamps the disc multiple times based on the temperature.

As you have mentioned, it’s happening during the cold start only (generally engine RPM is higher during this time), so more torque is produced initially during the power strokes while RPM’s are high initially, which is getting transferred to the wheels. Hence the brake calipers are not able to hold the vehicle in stationary position for this additional input of torque initially.

Since it’s an electrically/electronically - hydraulically operated system , I would first troubleshoot based on the assumption that either the voltage provided to booster break cylinder which is supposed to clamp the disc/drum, which is either providing irregular voltage, If it receives more or less voltage than necessary, this may be due to a fault in the battery and/or ECU or any software related issue. Hence check the electrical circuit/battery conditions and terminals.

Or the hydraulics of the break booster cylinder is at fault for not able to raise the pressure to clamp the disc and hold the vehicle steady. This would be the same logic for AVH too.

I would just plug-in the OBD scanner and see what error codes it throws. Probably you can visit a reputed service centre to see if any error codes pop-up before giving it to Mahindra service centre.

But but, it is strongly advised to get the critical component like brake system to be rectified/checked at service centre.

Good luck

[Tmittal93]

Originally Posted by NomadSK

True the car shouldn’t crawl ahead when EPB is engaged, specially when it’s almost a new car and assuming you are doing everything as mentioned in the owner’s manual. I’m ruling out mechanical issues, sensor issues, low break fluid, or worn break pads.

Technically This is how the EPB system works;

• If the EPB system detects any rolling after EPB is applied, the motor on caliper re-clamps the disc to avoid any rolling.
• As an added feature, to avoid roll away due the reduction in clamp force due to decrease in temperature, the EPB motor on caliper re-clamps the disc multiple times based on the temperature.

As you have mentioned, it’s happening during the cold start only (generally engine RPM is higher during this time), so more torque is produced initially during the power strokes while RPM’s are high initially, which is getting transferred to the wheels. Hence the brake calipers are not able to hold the vehicle in stationary position for this additional input of torque initially.

Since it’s an electrically/electronically - hydraulically operated system , I would first troubleshoot based on the assumption that either the voltage provided to booster break cylinder which is supposed to clamp the disc/drum, which is either providing irregular voltage, If it receives more or less voltage than necessary, this may be due to a fault in the battery and/or ECU or any software related issue. Hence check the electrical circuit/battery conditions and terminals.

Or the hydraulics of the break booster cylinder is at fault for not able to raise the pressure to clamp the disc and hold the vehicle steady. This would be the same logic for AVH too.

I would just plug-in the OBD scanner and see what error codes it throws. Probably you can visit a reputed service centre to see if any error codes pop-up before giving it to Mahindra service centre.

But but, it is strongly advised to get the critical component like brake system to be rectified/checked at service centre.

Good luck

Received call from Mahindra in evening and as expected their reply was- "there is no issue, no error in log either. Please take back your car. I requested them to keep the car till morning and try to check the issue during cold start. They then argued that they did cold start check".. i left the car at 12.30 and received the call at 4.30p.m... does 4 hour really count as cold? Not to mention they must have started the car to bring it inside centre as it was parked outside.

Anyway, i refused to take it until they check it in morning, finally they agreed.

Is there a way to contact mahindra's upper management if centre is unable to rectify issue? I am not on twitter and certainly Mr Anand mahindra won't read every post..

[A.G.]

Originally Posted by Tmittal93

1. The thing is epb doesn't disengage automatically in this case but car moves.. its like your manual handbrake is pulled but you press the accelerator so engine overpowers the handbrake..
EPB automatically disengages only after i press accelerator..

If the EPB remains engaged, in that case the rear wheels should drag with distinctive tyre squealing sound.

Originally Posted by NomadSK

As you have mentioned, it’s happening during the cold start only (generally engine RPM is higher during this time), so more torque is produced initially during the power strokes while RPM’s are high initially, which is getting transferred to the wheels. Hence the brake calipers are not able to hold the vehicle in stationary position for this additional input of torque initially.

I have the Diesel AX7L AT which has more torque than the Petrol and the EPB holds up nicely even on inclines, let alone plain surface.

[sandeepmdas]

Originally Posted by A.G.

I have the Diesel AX7L AT which has more torque than the Petrol and the EPB holds up nicely even on inclines, let alone plain surface.

Same here.

I could be outdated here but AFAIK, the EPB system consists of 2 subsystems; a. the control unit (CU) and b. the actuator(s). The CU is the logical part which receives feedback from both manual (EPB switch) and vehicle-generated (basically whether the car is in motion or not). On the basis of these inputs, the CU is programmed to send signals to the actuator (the physical part) to engage and disengage. The Auto-hold etc. are children born out of this wedlock of CU + actuator.

Now your problem is inconsistent and this normally means the actuator can't be the culprit for it is an electro-mech part. There could be either an issue with the CU or the wiring harness.

That said, consider the sequence of events:
- you're parking your car after a drive. EPB is engaged.
- the XUV just sits there for 48 hours or so.
- on the 3rd day, you're all belted up, you're slotting into D and the car moves forward making the EPB totally ineffective.
- after a drive, you're getting the EPB back.

Is the above-correct? If it is, then we have to assume here that the actuator is slowly somehow losing its grip or bite. Much like a pinhole-punctured tyre slowly losing air. over 2 days.

If it is the CU, we have to assume here that the CU is sending an unsolicited request to the actuator in a window of 48 hours - to disengage. This is not likely at all with the vehicle remains unpowered.

I don't know anything about the actuator. Could there be an trickle issue with hydraulics that makes is ineffective ? let the other TBHPians answer.

[GoBlue]

Sounds like either a software or hardware defect.

The EPB application software which is controlling the actuators is meeting all necessary pre-requisites for EPB HOLD, which is why the EPB remains engaged.

However, the CAN communication between this ECU and the TCU could be contradictory. The TCU may not be receiving consistent CAN signal from the ECU that hosts the EPB software, that EPB is engaged. It may instead be receiving a signal that says EPB is disengaged.

Thus the TCU could be getting into D mode operation (which it should not in this case, the driver command to put gear D should be overridden and prevented).

Another probability is this could be a hardware defect. There could be a feedback loop within the EPB system that measures whether the EPB is actually engaged, which could be giving a false negative during this cold start scenario. As a result, while the brakes are actually applied by the EPB actuators, the feedback from the actuator assembly to the CPU (that's executing EPB software) could be incorrect. Thus the EPB software interprets that EPB is disengaged and sends a corresponding signal to the TCU, which then proceeds to move from P to D interpreting this as a valid operation. Please note that the TCU would also have a EPB DISENGAGED pre-requisite to allow D gear-mode operation.

As to why does the EPB not disengage on its own while the vehicle begins crawling, this could be because the EPB software application is already in EPB disengaged state (due to the scenario mentioned above).

While this is just one of the probable root causes, in order to identify the actual root cause of this issue, the first step should be to monitor/analyze CAN communication between the ECU that hosts EPB software and the TCU. This logging needs to be done while this scenario occurs, hoping it's reproducible.

Do note that this is a safety critical issue, if the vehicle is parked on a ghat decline or on a highway shoulder, uncommanded crawling could result in fatality. Please insist on the root cause being analyzed by Mahindra, prior to accepting any warranty replacements of the EPB assembly. If this is indeed a software issue, the defect should go through the problem resolution management process at the Tier-1 supplier that manufactures this ECU (and its software), such that it doesn't affect other owners of this vehicle.

It is also possible that this issue could be part-local, which means that there's a variation in the EPB hardware assembly at the Tier-1 supplier's manufacturing line where-in due to some anomaly, the behavior of the hardware is different for this specific unit, while the software itself may be functioning correctly. Other EPB hardware units are OK. In such cases, root cause analysis by the OEM is MUST, to ensure the Tier-1 goes through specific process improvements at their manufacturing line, to ensure zero part variance.

An interesting question to ask (for M&M) would be, why didn't this get detected at EoL of the Tier-1?

Someone needs to do a fun 5-Why Analysis. And it surely cannot be the owner of this vehicle.

[Cresterk]

Anyone know how the EPB for the xuv700 is designed? Is it electric motor/actuator connected to a handbrake cable connected to the rear brakes? Or is it a separate motor/actuator fixed on each rear brake calliper like Toyota uses?

[Rohit_Quad]

Originally Posted by Tmittal93

Anyone here knows, what might be causing above EPB issue? The car should not crawl forward like this at cold start.

Congrats on the new purchase. Don't worry, i think the rear break needs to bed in still, or get it adjusted. So the reason you are seeing thins on cold starts, is because the engine rpm is high for the first few seconds (maybe upto 30-45 secs). I own an AX 5 P AT and during the initial days, i had many heart in mouth moments with my manual hand brake as well.
So basically i used to see this behaviour during cold starts - i start the car -> press brake -> put in D -> release handbrake -> heart in mouth as the car jumps forward suddenly. This is due to the power of the engine as the rpm's are high during cold starts. So now, during cold starts, i just wait till the rpm's come back to 800 and follow the same above steps and all is well. So i think the EPB is unable to stop the car due the power in the higher RPM"s during cold starts. Wait till the rpm's come down next time ( to around 800 revs, you can see the tacho and hear the engine settle down as well ) and then give it a try. Regarding appointments, have you tried the 'With you Hamesha' app?

[anjan_c2007]

Originally Posted by Tmittal93

Anyway, i refused to take it until they check it in morning, finally they agreed.

Is there a way to contact mahindra's upper management if centre is unable to rectify issue? I am not on twitter and certainly Mr Anand mahindra won't read every post..

For the cold start/ EPB issue and auto hold, I hope they have resolved it. If not, please ask them to park overnight again and after informing them, you can reach the workshop the next morning when they open it and request their engineer to be at the steering wheel. Seated on the passenger seat you can explain him the issue.

As regards the left ORVM beading falling off, a tape to keep it in place looks shabby in a two plus months old SUV. The ASC needs to settle this and other major issues.

As regards Mr Anand Mahindra, he does not read each tweet or "X" but his men surely do. I was not finding some very low value, but necessary body spares for my Scorpio and tweeted to him sending images. A manager got back and asked me to DM details including my city and contact no. After doing so, the local dealer's spares employee contacted me and said he will order. So within two weeks I got these. It works hence. A twitter or 'X' account is desirable. Even if you don't have, any friend who has can tweet for you citing your name, SUV model and the defects. Details can be shared through DM later and need not be in public domain.

[Tmittal93]

Update: 12.08.23

Everyone Thank you first of all.

Now i requested the service centre to keep the car overnight yesterday and start the car with me present today morning.. they made sure the car was parked separately at 6p.m. on 11th and deposited the key with manager so that no one else touches or start the car. Today morning, i, service advisor, the GM. We all checked the car and they asked me to sit in driver seat and repeat the process. I started the car and repeated the process at 9.15 today morning. The problem did not occur this time. They told me that they have thoroughly checked the car and that car's software has also been updated.

After bringing car home, i removed seat belt. Engaged epb and shifted to Drive and pressed accelerator to check if epb holds up and it did. Epb made it difficult for car to move but the engine after a little more race did overpower epb and car moved a little.

I repeated same process in reverse gear and same thing happened.

So, seems like epb is holding good if car is struggling to move forward after applying throttle.

I will keep the car in observation and see if issue is permanently resolved or come backs later

Further the beading issue. They made it worse. They used some thread based double tape that is like slyme. So right now, i have used black electricity tape and applied it on inner side of door to hold the beading from top.. the tape looks like eye sore when gate opens but better than a dangling beading.

Will get it repaired in 1k service. They also used muddy cloth to clean car due to which entire piano black pannels are scratched up.. attaching picture.

What a nuisance!!

[Tmittal93]

Originally Posted by anjan_c2007

For the cold start/ EPB issue and auto hold, I hope they have resolved it. If not, please ask them to park overnight again and after informing them, you can reach the workshop the next morning when they open it and request their engineer to be at the steering wheel. Seated on the passenger seat you can explain him the issue...

Originally Posted by GoBlue

Sounds like either a software or hardware defect.

The EPB application software which is controlling the actuators is meeting all necessary pre-requisites for EPB HOLD, which is why the EPB remains engaged...

Update: 15.08.23

While the issue seems resolved at first, it has popped up again today and even worse.

The car today at first did not move when i shifted to D, while epb was still active.
Few seconds later, the whole car shivered and vibrated, brakes made a lot of noise and then car moved forward but stopped itself after 0.5 mt or so.. maybe epb realised vehicle moving and stopped it.. but i think it has to do something with high rpm on engine start and too much power going to wheels on shifting to D that epb is unable to manage.

What i dont understand is- how come epb doesn't let car move forward when i remove seatbelt and push race trying to check if EPB gives in. EPB then hold car very effectively. You can hear brakes make noise trying to stop car from moving forward when race is being given..

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