[tracerspiff]

Hello everyone, I searched the forum on this particular topic but could not find a thread where this issue was discussed in depth.

Here is my problem. I have a Tata Harrier XZA+ bought on June 22 and it had the connected car feature which I could access through the IRA app. I found the app a little gimmicky and did not add much value. What bothered me most is that it logged "all my trips" and I wasn't too comfortable with that kind of data being continuously logged.

Now at the end of 1 year, I got a message saying I need to renew the subscription. Since I was not using the app, I let it lapse.

I want to know if the data is still being collected and sitting in some Tata server? Is there any way of permanently disabling the data logger in the car? Has anybody done this?

[GTO]

I don't think there's any way that a manufacturer is going to pay for a wireless data connection to Airtel / Jio / Vodafone, if the car owner doesn't renew his subscription.

That being said, I doubt you can do anything about data stored locally in the car. OEMs and / or their workshops could always have access to that. How much data is stored and where will vary by brand.

IMHO, "privacy" is a myth in today's connected times. Starting with your smartphone, social media, online browsing etc. If you are sensitive about privacy, follow the best practices, stick to the best brands (e.g. Apple in phones) and avoid dealing with shady companies.

[PaddleShifter]

1. We use navigation: cars have GPS.
2. We use Apple CarPlay, Android Auto: data gets generated.
Cars have CPU: speed, acceleration, driving duration, Kms covered are collected. This can not be disabled in any manner.

For point 1: This is achieveable as long as the GPS can be disabled or removed. Depends upon how its designed.
For point 2: Car manufacturers are now developing cars that will integrate with CarPlay in manners that we can not escape data collection/generation. Till now, the data generated stayed with Apple/Google and not the car manufacturer.
For point 3: Nothing can be done.

Oh! As long as we are using smart devices and internet around us, worrying about connected cars is irrelevant.

[ferrarirules]

Originally Posted by tracerspiff

I want to know if the data is still being collected and sitting in some Tata server? Is there any way of permanently disabling the data logger in the car? Has anybody done this?

Though what GTO has said is absolutely right. The data is collected with the help of a data connection from SIM card provider. TATA won't pay for the data connection if you don't renew your subscription. Hence data won't reach the server

If you are still paranoid about local logging in the car, there is a telematics unit under the front passenger seat of the car (That is where it is in Nexon), you can unplug it.

[tracerspiff]

Originally Posted by GTO

I don't think there's any way that a manufacturer is going to pay for a wireless data connection to Airtel / Jio / Vodafone, if the car owner doesn't renew his subscription.
.

That was my hunch too. Good to hear this

Originally Posted by PaddleShifter

Oh! As long as we are using smart devices and internet around us, worrying about connected cars is irrelevant.

I am aware that privacy is a myth but the amount of targeted scam calls I have received after I bought the Harrier does not give me confidence to trust the Tata guys with my data. So many calls start with "Hello sir, your tata harrier number KAxxABxxxx is eligible for extended warranty, special package, insurance", you name it. If any call starts with Tata Harrier, I just hang up. I dont care if its genuine or not.
I know the data was probably sold by the dealer but I feel Tata should have some controls. I don't trust them with any of my data.

Originally Posted by ferrarirules

there is a telematics unit under the front passenger seat of the car (That is where it is in Nexon), you can unplug it.

I will try to find it in my car.

[PaddleShifter]

Originally Posted by tracerspiff

but the amount of targeted scam calls I have received after I bought the Harrier does not give me confidence to trust the Tata guys with my data. So many calls start with "Hello sir, your tata harrier number KAxxABxxxx is eligible for extended warranty, special package, insurance", you name it. If any call starts with Tata Harrier, I just hang up. I dont care if its genuine or not.

This is applicable to Maruti’s Nexa (and Arena too probably) too. So I dont think that TATA alone is the culprit. Ever since I got the 2020 S-Cross, I started getting calls from Mahindra Holidays. One even asked me that “car use kar rahe hain sir S-Cross, apko holiday package mila hai (you are using S-Cross, you have got holiday package deal)”.

[Kkumar]

Hi, I own a Safari XZA+ Dark Edition, if you go through the car manual, in the iRA section it’s mentioned that the data will be used by Tata Motors to support their claim in case of any legal issues. So what I understand from that is irrespective of we renewing the subscription or not, Tata Motors will collect data, at least till the end of expiry of warranty period. It’s just that if we renew the subscription we will also get to use the features.

[tracerspiff]

Originally Posted by Kkumar

So what I understand from that is irrespective of we renewing the subscription or not, Tata Motors will collect data, at least till the end of expiry of warranty period. It’s just that if we renew the subscription we will also get to use the features.

You are right. I just went through the user manual. It doesn't look good. Looks like they will collect the data indefinitely.

The Connected Car module records the following information:
Vehicle Telematics
This includes the periodic transmission of data from other vehicle ECUs & Electronic systems like EMS, ABS, Air Bag,
BMS, BCM etc. along with the geographical location of the vehicle.

Vehicle driving behavior
This includes the location, speed, acceleration, trip details, charging etc.

Event based recording
This includes data generated during specific events like vehicle collision, intrusion,un-authorized entry etc.
The Data collected through Connected Car module is used by Tata Motors Passenger Vehicle Limited for various purposes, including, but not limited to,
Providing Connected Car features through Mobile APP.
• Evaluation of Vehicle performance.
• Research & improvement of current & future vehicle designs.
• Troubleshooting & diagnostics of the vehicle.

TATA MOTORS does not disclose the data recorded from your vehicle to any third party except:
• After obtaining a written consent from the Car Owner.
• Upon request from Law enforcing agencies and regulatory bodies.
• Used for research purpose without the
Personal Verifiable information(anonymized).
• Used as defence of TATA MOTORS in a Lawsuit.

[DudeWithaFiat]

Originally Posted by tracerspiff

What bothered me most is that it logged "all my trips" and I wasn't too comfortable with that kind of data being continuously logged.

Now at the end of 1 year, I got a message saying I need to renew the subscription. Since I was not using the app, I let it lapse.

.....Is there any way of permanently disabling the data logger in the car? Has anybody done this?

Important: Have you confirmed that your insurance is not one of the new 'Pay as you Drive' insurance plans where it is mandatory to have all the trips are logged by an app or a vendor accepted by the insurance company?

[d.w.w.]

Originally Posted by ferrarirules

TATA won't pay for the data connection if you don't renew your subscription. Hence data won't reach the server

They might not get a live data feed, but the data will be stored locally and can be read and synced once the vehicle reaches service center for routine service. You might have to stay away from authorized service centers if you want to prevent the offline read.

I have read somewhere that GMaps does this too if data connection is disabled. It collects all data and uploads the data to google servers as soon as data connection is available again.

Originally Posted by tracerspiff

I know the data was probably sold by the dealer but I feel Tata should have some controls. I don't trust them with any of my data.

The only thing Tata (or any company) can do is to restrict the access to authorized personal (read ASC employees). But then the people with access can sell this out for making some quick bucks and it will be almost impossible to pin point the leak. Same happened with Hyundai also in my case, the data was sold to Mahindra holidays, insurance agents and other service centers.

The way out of this is to bring in data protection laws like in EU, but that is a distant dream.

[clevermax]

I drive a 'non-connected' car but the Android Auto is collecting at least some data and is sending it to Google I am sure.

If I drive a connected car, I wouldn't be comfortable with the manufacturer collecting all sorts of data including my driving behavior. This needs a hack/solution badly.

Maybe you could find out the cellular module and its antennas and Faraday-cage them completely so that it will block any RF from going out. The car would think that it is in a place with no cellular reception. Even with this, you can't guarantee the prevention of data outflow, because the system may locally cache all the information until it has connectivity back again. That is what I would do if I were to design such a system. It may have a limit for local cache but it should be good enough for several days or weeks. So the moment you bring the car back to connectivity for an OTA or something, your data might get shipped. Another channel would be via the A.S.S. where they connect your car to some diagnostic equipment.

So a proper solution has to prevent the data generation or local (in-car) logging itself so that there is no data to ship. Sounds complicated.

I block a million domains in my home network using a pi-hole and they include a lot of data collection & audience measurement, among other types such as porn and advertisement domains. Too bad it can't be done on a car.

[maximus_fiat]

Cars are becoming high tech and we may not be able to prevent the data collection activities. It will be another debate on how and where our data is stored and used.

Companies will eventually use connected car tech and provide features using it which will be too compelling for us to ignore.

[tracerspiff]

Originally Posted by DudeWithaFiat

Important: Have you confirmed that your insurance is not one of the new 'Pay as you Drive' insurance plans where it is mandatory to have all the trips are logged by an app or a vendor accepted by the insurance company?

Yes. I stuck to the tried and tested old fashioned insurance.

Originally Posted by d.w.w.

The way out of this is to bring in data protection laws like in EU, but that is a distant dream.

Given that scammers were able to purchase a list of car owners, something is seriously wrong in the current scenario.

Some of the scam calls were so good that I started to second-guess myself. I asked them to call back in a day so I could google the extended warranty activation scam.

I think the official Team-BHP new car buying guide should contain a warning. First essential accessory to buy after you buy a new car is truecaller premium subscription.

Originally Posted by clevermax

If I drive a connected car, I wouldn't be comfortable with the manufacturer collecting all sorts of data including my driving behavior. This needs a hack/solution badly.

Maybe you could find out the cellular module and its antennas and Faraday-cage them completely so that it will block any RF from going out.

Awesome idea! Faraday caging the cellular module should be doable and no risk of voiding the warranty.

[Zippy_wheels]

Originally Posted by tracerspiff

I think the official Team-BHP new car buying guide should contain a warning. First essential accessory to buy after you buy a new car is truecaller premium subscription.

Maybe buy a sim card, just for car purchase dealings, and then break it and throw it away!

After reading the comments in this forum I realized why there is an uptick in the Club Mahindra holiday package calls! I had not linked it to the car purchase.

Just today I got a call offering me part-time work from home job that would earn 3000-5000. I told him my number was on DnD and he called me an idiot.
If he really had a part-time job that pays 3000-5000 why wasn't he doing it himself, rather than working in a call center, calling me and offering me that job? LOL.