[gyathishkumar]

My friend's car has been hit by an object/stone on the road causing underbody damage.

Kindly refer the below post for photos and extent of damage.

https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techn...ml#post5463423 (Underbody Hit & Cracked Sump : Implications, Vulnerabilities, Responsibilities)

The SA requested to open the engine and assess the impact of the damage since oil pump was damaged. Upon the recommendation of the service engineer in the workshop, it was agreed by the surveyor to open and check for internal damage inside engine.

During discussions with the workshop, it has been conveyed to me that in order to reassemble the engine, certain spare parts (piston rings and other associated bearings in the engine, etc.,) are not available from VW for replacement and VW is recommending base engine replacement since the child parts are not available for the 1.2L CJLA engine.

VW service centre has informed that they cannot do anything other than replacing the base engine.

I also understand that Ameo 1.2L petrol shares the engine with the Polo 1.2L Petrol. I am looking for the following spare parts: piston ring, cam shaft bearing, connecting rod bearing which are available as spare for other VW engines such as TSI, TDI.

Any car manufacturer is legally bound to supply spares for 15 years as mandated by laws in India. I wonder how VW does not provide spares such as piston rings and bearings, which essentially require replacement after 1L or so kms.

oriparts.com and boodmo.com also do not mention part numbers for this engine.

Please provide your insight and experience in this regards. I would be really helpful and highly appreciated.

[Sheel]

Thread Approved! Thanks for sharing.

[androdev]

Does the insurance cover such damage? Unless engine + gearbox cover is included, most insurance companies reject claims for underbody damages to engine and gearbox.

A friend’s car had a similar underbody damage, insurance was refused. My friend paid for the repairs that ran into a couple of lakhs. The repair was a flop. The car has to be sent for rework multiple times but it could not be fixed. Eventually after a long drawn settlement, VW took the car from them and paid cash to the owner.

Maybe this was an exception but do keep in mind that engine repairs carry such risks. If insurance is covering the damage, the safest thing would be to work out a cash settlement with insurance company and get rid of the car. You will save time and avoid uncertainty.

[ninjatalli]

On a general basis, I would agree with @androdev, especially given this is a VW.

But if your friend is open to go around the VW service center (which will be tough considering the insurance process), you do have the option to go the FNG option in Chennai with the highly reliable Jay Prakash who is quite recommended by several bhpians (search for the thread on his garage). In the past, he's been able to source VAG car parts and is quite reliable.

[Kosfactor]

There could be metal particles that are distributed elsewhere however given there is an oil pump and oil filter, I think there is still a chance to recover this engine.

I suggest moving the vehicle to an independent garage, clean up the block and oil passages , replace the broken bits and put everything back together.

[Jeroen]

Originally Posted by gyathishkumar

During the discussion with workshop, it has been conveyed to me in order to reassemble the engine that certain spare parts (piston rings and other associated bearings in the engine, etc.,) are not available from VW for replacement and VW is recommending base engine replacement since the child parts are not available for the 1.2L CJLA engine.

VW service centre has informed that they cannot do anything other replacing base engine replacement.

Well, if it was me, I would strongly prefer a replacement engine over fixing the old engine. This sort of damage can be tricky to sort out properly. No matter how carefully you inspect everything and subsequently replace respective parts, it is easily to overlook something. You won’t really know if the repairs were successful until you have a driven a couple of thousand kilometers.

It is certainly much more complex fixing that old engine compared to simply replacing it. It doesn’t take that much skill and experience to replace an engine. It takes an awful lot of skill, experiences and some special tools to overhaul the engine properly.

You don’t mention anything about cost and who will be paying, so that might be a factor to be taken into consideration.

Here in the west the number of man hours and machine hours required to fix an engine like this is likely to cost more than a simple engine replacement job. But labour is cheap in India, so it might work out very differently.

If somebody has some original VW spare part numbers I would be happy to see if I can still get these spares here in Western Europe. Just to check the VW India claim.

Jeroen

[Raghu M]

I don't think this sort of work would be covered through insurance. The choice is of the manufacturer, it is not a damage that cannot be repaired. It should be repaired in an ideal world. But since VW has mentioned non-availability of parts, the insurance company will back out.

[gyathishkumar]

Originally Posted by Jeroen

Well, if it was me, I would strongly prefer a replacement engine over fixing the old engine.

Replacement of engine is last restort due to budget constraints. Make the car ready and sell it off can be a option after three years or so. Car is already in 7th year. With ameo resale value, I dont think engine replacement is an ideal option

Originally Posted by Kosfactor

There could be metal particles that are distributed elsewhere however given there is an oil pump and oil filter, I think there is still a chance to recover this engine..

Internal inspection in the engine shows that no damage to piston, crankshaft and connecting rods. Trying to recover the engine is what I am looking for. However to recover engine we need the OEM parts atleast - Piston Rings which is not available as child part as per VW. This makes me wonder how they refuse to sell piston rings as indiviual part.
Instead of spending few thousand rupees, VW forces me to pay in lakhs for engine.

Originally Posted by ninjatalli

. In the past, he's been able to source VAG car parts and is quite reliable.

Will check with him for identifying child parts. VW service center showed it in there part catalog portal. Piston rings are not availble as individual item

Originally Posted by androdev

Does the insurance cover such damage? Unless engine + gearbox cover is included, most insurance companies reject claims for underbody damages to engine and gearbox.
.

Originally Posted by Raghu M

I don't think this sort of work would be covered through insurance. The choice is of the manufacturer, it is not a damage that cannot be repaired. It should be repaired in an ideal world. But since VW has mentioned non-availability of parts, the insurance company will back out.

Engine protect is not added while purchasing insurance. So insurance will not approve claim anything other that oil sump, oil pump, pulley associated with accidental damage.

Originally Posted by Sheel

Thread Approved! Thanks for sharing.

Thanks for approving thread

[GTO]

Originally Posted by gyathishkumar

Any car manufacturer is legally bound to supply spares for 15 years as mandated by laws in India.

AFAIK, this is a myth. While there are some orders from lower courts (not Supreme Court) saying spare parts for products must be provided for the lifespan of the product, no one specified any fixed number of years for cars. There were also some draft regulations here & there, but nothing was passed.

Solution:

- Buy a very popular car. If there are enough of them on the road, the after-market & spare part manufacturers have ample incentive to keep providing parts. It makes business sense as there is demand from the lakhs of cars on the road.

- Buy from a manufacturer known for its high customer service standards (definitely not VW).

- Buy a popular global model. As an example, there are plenty of international websites where you will easily get parts for 15-year old E-Classes and 20-year old Corollas.

You may try getting the work done from a specialist independent garage. They will source parts for you, even if they have to call for it from another country. Try https://www.gsfcarparts.com/ too.

[AKSarkar1]

I actually find this very surprising, the Ameo although not a smash hit in the Indian market has been a relatively popular car in the enthusiast community.

Try escalating this matter to VW India's top brass, they are generally extremely responsive and helpful. A close friend of mine still drives his Touareg and this car is a unicorn in India, VW still manages to arrange parts and carry out the required work each time.

[Hayek]

Don’t think VW is saying they won’t repair the car - they are saying they will replace the engine given the damage and given they don’t sell specific child parts. There is no law anywhere in the world to sell the smallest component possible - very often, it would be sub assemblies that would be sold, and if given the damage, the right level at which the replacement must be done is that of the whole engine, that is the right solution. If you want to do a DIY repair, that is not the manufacturer’s responsibility. So depending on the trade off between repair cost and resale value, the OP needs to decide between repairing or scrapping the car. Am sure there will be someone in India who will buy it on an as-is where-is basis. Sad that this is the outcome, but that is why buying engine protect is very important.

[JithinR]

Originally Posted by Hayek

Don’t think VW is saying they won’t repair the car - they are saying they will replace the engine given the damage and given they don’t sell specific child parts. There is no law anywhere in the world to sell the smallest component possible - very often, it would be sub assemblies that would be sold, and if given the damage, the right level at which the replacement must be done is that of the whole engine, that is the right solution.

Think there is a misunderstanding there. As the OP mentioned, internal inspection revealed that there is no damage to components like pistons, crankshaft etc. He is only looking to parts like Piston rings to get the engine back together.

Agree with the OP here. This is stupidity on the part of VW. Essentially they are forcing customers to switch out the whole engine for a few minor child parts. Also, the Service advisor should have highlighted this before taking apart the engine in this case. Like the other members have mentioned think it's better to get the car to a FNG.

Originally Posted by gyathishkumar

Internal inspection in the engine shows that no damage to piston, crankshaft and connecting rods. Trying to recover the engine is what I am looking for. However to recover engine we need the OEM parts atleast - Piston Rings which is not available as child part as per VW. This makes me wonder how they refuse to sell piston rings as indiviual part.
Instead of spending few thousand rupees, VW forces me to pay in lakhs for engine.

[satya180]

I feel sorry for your friend.

However, child parts not being available via the official supply chain is the case with many manufacturers now, as they themselves prefer to buy subassemblies for one vendor vs buying individual components from different vendors

for eg, lets assume - a side mirror assembly consists of 4 parts: mirror plate, mirror mount, outer body and electronics.

an OE has 2 options:
1. buy 4 items individually from different vendors and assemble in house or at vendor
2. buy all 4 items as an assembly for one capable vendor

low volume manufacturers may go for option 2 as it saves on a lot of vendor development, part development and inventory costs. This is also sometimes seen on critical parts of the vehicle needing a certain level of machinery to assemble properly.

So, while it may not be available officially, i feel that part will be available as there are too many aftermarket component manufacturers. Also its India man, im sure one trip to your nearest automotive breakdown market (kurla, chor bazaar in Mumbai for eg) will sort you with the required items. Then get the assembly done for an experienced garage outside.

All the best, keep us posted.

[gyathishkumar]

Originally Posted by GTO

You may try getting the work done from a specialist independent garage. They will source parts for you, even if they have to call for it from another country. Try https://www.gsfcarparts.com/ too.

Thanks for sharing the website https://www.gsfcarparts.com/. Unfortunately, I am not able to find piston rings there.

Originally Posted by AKSarkar1

Try escalating this matter to VW India's top brass, they are generally extremely responsive and helpful.

I have already escalated with VW customer care. VW customer care is not directly dealing the matter and they have assigned same service centre-VW South –Chennai to deal the complaint.
I don’t think they are going to arrange OEM parts.

Originally Posted by Hayek

Don’t think VW is saying they won’t repair the car - they are saying they will replace the engine given the damage and given they don’t sell specific child parts. There is no law anywhere in the world to sell the smallest component possible - very often, it would be sub assemblies that would be sold, and if given the damage, the right level at which the replacement must be done is that of the whole engine, that is the right solution. If you want to do a DIY repair, that is not the manufacturer’s responsibility.

The engine was opened only to assess the damage inside. As I already mentioned, there is no damage to engine. As per shop floor person in service centre, in order to reassemble the engine, it is required to replace piston rings and other bearings since removed parts cannot be used again.

Originally Posted by JithinR

Also, the Service advisor should have highlighted this before taking apart the engine in this case. Like the other members have mentioned think it's better to get the car to a FNG.

Even though we repeatedly insisted that engine did not run more than two minutes. SA and Shop floor manager of the service centre convinced us to open the engine to assess the damage. They might have said that with good intention.
Nevertheless, they should have mentioned about lack of child parts upfront which was conveyed to us only during stage where reassembly required.

Originally Posted by satya180

I feel sorry for your friend.
However, child parts not being available via the official supply chain is the case with many manufacturers now, as they themselves prefer to buy subassemblies for one vendor.

VW/Service centre is unofficially ready to arrange aftermarket component to get the engine ready. But I am insisting them on OEM spares due to concern on originality/longevity of aftermarket spares.

[Jeroen]

Originally Posted by gyathishkumar

The engine was opened only to assess the damage inside. As I already mentioned, there is no damage to engine. As per shop floor person in service centre, in order to reassemble the engine, it is required to replace piston rings and other bearings since removed parts cannot be used again.
.

Sorry, but that is just hogwash I’m afraid. There is absolutely no reason not to use piston rings and bearings again after inspection!

The one thing which is relevant is that every part is reinstalled in its original position. So piston 1 needs to back into cilinder one. Especially with the bearings it is relevant. Did you see the parts? Are they all in a large pile or are they stored in a meticulous order?

Things like washers, gaskets and certain type of bolts and nuts should be used only once. But I have never ever heard of piston rings and bearings not being able to be used again. Proving they are not damaged and are still within specification.

Good luck

Jeroen