[purohitanuj]

Originally Posted by Jeroen

Thanks for sharing this, look forward to further updates.

Just a few more thoughts on this topic. There are a number of cars out there where the manufacturer claims the transmission is “sealed for life”.

...
My Jaguar XJR has one of these “sealed for life” transmissions. There is not an official Jaguar dealer who will change/flush your tranny!.

...

I see this against right to repair. Basically, the so called "Sealed for life" is relative term. I did some digging and the results are surprising.

See the service manual (DSI M78 6 Speed AT) page A:
It says that the gearbox ATF is sealed for life.




In the same service manual, page B states Oil Change Schedule:




Now what I understand is "Sealed for Life" is a marketing term. These companies assume that an average Joe would run is car for about 30,000KMs in this life time.

This is completely rubbish!

Another point to note is that many would not drive 30K in warranty period. So the manufacturer would want the gearbox to fail post warranty so more mulah can be milked. This treand is very unethical.

We should raise voice against this. All manufacturers should term the "Sealed For Life" in terms of KMs or Years or better both.

Originally Posted by busydrive

Good thread. Will keep an eye on it. Wanted to add a similar example - Hexa service schedule says AT boxes are sealed for life. However there are many in the forum who have changed AT oil in between 60-80K KM even though service centres usually say it's not required. I haven't done it yet as it's still new.

As I have said, changing the Oil is like replacing 30% bad/burnt ATF with 30% new. Proper way is to change at 30K and flush at 70K. No two ways about it.

Note from Support: Kindly use the Quote+/Edit functionality to quote multiple posts.

[skhattar]

I own a Crysta 2.8Z Auto. Its has done about 1.4L kms. Since the last 10k Kms, the transmission has become jerky sometimes. The car has always been serviced at Toyota dealership who have done a fantastic job so far.

There inference is that there is nothing wrong with the transmission and they don't change the ATF; "Sealed-for-life'.
Last service I requested them to change the same but they did not have ATF in stock as it was not a 'running' item.

I will be getting the ATF changed in the next service. Why do Auto companies do this? Fo the un-informed. one might lose the transmission someday.

[echo77]

Started looking into US and other countries websites because they have been using TC ATs for generations, whereas India has just cosied up to AT over the last decade.

https://www.torquenews.com/14093/sea...ealed-mechanic

The Sealed Automatic Transmission Flush Deception Revealed by a Mechanic
To flush or not to flush---that is the question a former car dealer and now-popular YouTube channel mechanic answers as he explains the sealed automatic transmission deception to car owners and why spending $200 in fluid is a much more sensible approach than spending six to eight thousand dollars for a new transmission.

https://www.mastermechanic.ca/blog/sealed-transmission/

First off, you’ll know you have a sealed transmission if you don’t have a dipstick to check the fluid. That said, even a sealed transmission needs to have its fluid checked or replaced on occasion. Although this may seem to contradict the name, not having clean transmission fluid can lead to significant expenses down the road.

A sealed transmission doesn’t mean an inaccessible transmission. Your local Master Mechanic can check the fluid of a sealed transmission, however, the vehicle will likely need to be lifted off the ground to do so.

https://autoexpert.com.au/posts/seal...-transmissions

In all transmissions, this ‘sealed for life’ business is simply disingenuous carmaker bullshit. If you ask them what ‘life’ actually means, as in: ‘What is the life of the transmission?’ They’ll stare blankly at the floor for a while and retort: ‘As long as it lasts.’

Which is meaningless. Because if the oil wears out, becomes ineffective and kills the transmission earlier than it otherwise might have, then there’s your self-fulfilling prophesy. It was ‘sealed for life’ - but that’s hardly a win for the good guys, I think you’d agree.

For a carmaker it’s probably good enough for the transmission to last the length of the powertrain warranty in the big overseas markets. So, up to five years and 160,000 kilometres, broadly. But you’d probably want your transmission to go longer than that if possible. Especially given the cost of a rebuild or replacement, versus the value of the car at that point.

https://blog.amsoil.com/should-i-cha...-transmission/

Suppose the “filled-for-life” transmission or differential on your truck fails after the factory warranty has expired. What do you think the dealership is going to do? That’s right – slide a bill across the counter to the tune of several thousand dollars.

It’s a good idea to change fluids in a filled-for-life or sealed transmission or differential at least once during its lifetime, and more often if you tow or haul.

[purohitanuj]

Originally Posted by skhattar

I own a Crysta 2.8Z Auto. Its has done about 1.4L kms. Since the last 10k Kms, the transmission has become jerky sometimes. The car has always been serviced at Toyota dealership who have done a fantastic job so far.

There inference is that there is nothing wrong with the transmission and they don't change the ATF; "Sealed-for-life'.
Last service I requested them to change the same but they did not have ATF in stock as it was not a 'running' item.

I will be getting the ATF changed in the next service. Why do Auto companies do this? Fo the un-informed. one might lose the transmission someday.

I would thread very carefully. A first ATF change on high mileage vehicle can be devastating. The manufacturers do this to charge you for a full AT box (4-7Lakh) post warranty. Also I guess, in there OEM contracts, the principle manufacturer does not allow them to service the AT boxes for the same (earning) reason.

Do some research on ATF grade being used. Most likely Motul ATF VI would work and is about 850/ liter.

I want to get this message across to all via this thread -> Get ATF changed while the tranny is fine. Heat is the number 1 killer for AT transmission and the ATF breaks down during normal running, decreasing its heat dissipation and transfer qualities.

[kiredd1005]

What is the most technically correct way to change ATF? I know even ASC use gravity to drain the ATF but I'm sure it won't get the job done correctly. Is there a machine that can extract ATF and refill correctly?

[purohitanuj]

Originally Posted by kiredd1005

What is the most technically correct way to change ATF? I know even ASC use gravity to drain the ATF but I'm sure it won't get the job done correctly. Is there a machine that can extract ATF and refill correctly?

1. Drive car around to get ATF upto 60 deg C
2. Open transmission cooler exit line and put it in a pan.
3. Start in P mode and let the AT gearbox pump pump out all ATF until you see bubbles.
4. Measure the OIL (as fail safe)
5. Start car and pump ATF until fresh ATF does not come out of open cooler line.
6. Connect cooler line back, close filler plug and drive around 4-5 KM
7. Switch off car for 5 minutes and then open filler plug.
8. If ATF is not flowing out,top up
9. If ATF flowing out, close filler plug and drive 4-5 KMs
10. With car running in P, open filler plug again. If ATF flowing out, let it flow out for 30 seconds until you see a fine slow stream. Close filler plug. Job Done.
11. If ATF is not flowing out, go to step 8.

[Jeroen]

Originally Posted by kiredd1005

What is the most technically correct way to change ATF? I know even ASC use gravity to drain the ATF but I'm sure it won't get the job done correctly. Is there a machine that can extract ATF and refill correctly?

I don’t know about India, but see my earlier post about these machines that really clean out the system, before putting new ATF in.

https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techn...ml#post5462056 (Why it's important to change the transmission fluid of your Torque-Converter AT)

Originally Posted by purohitanuj

1. Drive car around to get ATF upto 60 deg C
2. Open transmission cooler exit line and put it in a pan.
3. Start in P mode and let the AT gearbox pump pump out all ATF until you see bubbles.
4. Measure the OIL (as fail safe)
5. Start car and pump ATF until fresh ATF does not come out of open cooler line.
6. Connect cooler line back, close filler plug and drive around 4-5 KM
7. Switch off car for 5 minutes and then open filler plug.
8. If ATF is not flowing out,top up
9. If ATF flowing out, close filler plug and drive 4-5 KMs
10. With car running in P, open filler plug again. If ATF flowing out, let it flow out for 30 seconds until you see a fine slow stream. Close filler plug. Job Done.
11. If ATF is not flowing out, go to step 8.

Just as an additional step, before you start extracting the old ATF, make sure you can actually get the filler plug out!

Getting ATF flowing out of the filler outlet means you have overfilled and in many cases the proper level is well below the filler opening. Not all transmission have a filler opening on the side of the transmission. E.g. on my Jeep it is on top of the transmission.

You can also use a good accurate infra red thermometer to find the level of the fluid messing on the outside of the sump. You need the ATF to be at operating temperature and you need to check the level before you drain it or pump it out, so you get a good reference.

Jeroen

[Sankar]

Originally Posted by skhattar

I own a Crysta 2.8Z Auto. Its has done about 1.4L kms. Since the last 10k Kms, the transmission has become jerky sometimes. The car has always been serviced at Toyota dealership who have done a fantastic job so far.

There inference is that there is nothing wrong with the transmission and they don't change the ATF; "Sealed-for-life'.
Last service I requested them to change the same but they did not have ATF in stock as it was not a 'running' item.

Originally Posted by purohitanuj

Do some research on ATF grade being used. Most likely Motul ATF VI would work and is about 850/ liter.

Toyota WS is the fluid you need. I bought 1L from the dealer here and iirc was priced at around 1k per liter. Its not synthetic.

You can use other ATF fluid that meets Toyota WS or JWS3324 specs and if doing a full fluid replacement can use a synthetic ATF meeting the mentioned specs. You will need about 9.xx liter (iirc) for full drain and refill, the procedure mentioned in the workshop manual for this is elaborate and should be followed correctly. If doing at Toyota they will use Toyota WS.

If doing a partial drain and refill use ONLY the Toyota WS fluid since it will mix with the old fluid. Partial drain and top up can be done by draining the pan (store the oil in a clean jar), removing the pan (pour oil in the pan into the same clean jar), clean/replace filter, refit the pan, measure the total oil drained and add exact amount of new oil through fill port.

For more thorough job, follow the service manual and check the oil level through reverse dipstick. What I call reverse dipstick looks like a drain bolt on the pan but its a tube on the bottom of the pan at a set height inside the pan. Opening this bolt will allow the fluid to flow out if level is high for the condition. Follow the procedure in service manual as the hot and cold levels are different, and also few other points that needs checking. Close the drain bolt of this "reverse dipstick" when oil it stops coming out of it. So under the pan there will be two bolts that look like drain plugs, only one is the drain plug. Other bolt is the reverse dipstick.

[Kosfactor]

Originally Posted by purohitanuj

As I have said, changing the Oil is like replacing 30% bad/burnt ATF with 30% new. Proper way is to change at 30K and flush at 70K. No two ways about it.

I think we are looking at ~ 10,000 Rs per refill. The oil, oil pan gasket, filter and labor.

Considering private vehicles are not used to tow caravans \ boats etc in our country, do we still need to consider 30,000 for replacement of fluid?

[Dhananjay_Desai]

Originally Posted by attrip2008

Any thoughts on the ATF change schedule for Hyundai 6 speed ATs?

I’ve a Creta Diesel AT (2021 model, 6 speed TC). I checked with an ex service advisor of Hyundai here in Bangalore, who is highly knowledgable and genuine (I had been leaving my i10 petrol and i20 diesel for servicing only with him and hence the good relationship). He told me to change the AT fluid for my car at one lakh kms even though they say it’s “sealed for life”.

[purohitanuj]

Originally Posted by Kosfactor

I think we are looking at ~ 10,000 Rs per refill. The oil, oil pan gasket, filter and labor.

Considering private vehicles are not used to tow caravans \ boats etc in our country, do we still need to consider 30,000 for replacement of fluid?

ATF change @ 30K should cost about 5K. It will not require Oil filter, gasket etc. Best quality fully synthetic ATF should be around 800-850/liter.
Not much labor is required if the box has drain bolt and filler bolt.

Full flush should cost around 10K -12K including labor.

[ritedhawan]

Originally Posted by Kosfactor

Considering private vehicles are not used to tow caravans \ boats etc in our country, do we still need to consider 30,000 for replacement of fluid?

We don't, ideally the first ATF replacement for car's should occur somewhere around 50-60K KM, considering private vehicles are not used to tow caravans \ boats etc. In my car the first ATF replacement occurred at 60K KM , then the next one came in the interval of 40K KM and stayed like that, this is exactly as per Manual. 30,000 KM for the first ATF replacement or interval perspective is too less.

Another particular tell tale sign of something up with conventional AT's:
Usually there is sufficient crawl associated with conventional AT. For example, car on level surface and you select 'D' and without stepping on accelerator, the car should begin its usual crawl. Therefore, a car exhibiting diminished crawl or non-existent crawl is a tell tale sign of something up with AT. In my case, with my erstwhile ownership of 2007 Honda Accord 2.4L AT, it was a case of ever so slight leakage of ATF and on top of that I never bothered to change ATF. Both in unison ended up destroying AT and I ended up giving up that vehicle. Had I got the slight leakage rectified and simply followed ATF replacement as per manual. I would have saved the AT of my erstwhile 2007 Honda Accord 2.4 L and would have continued using it.

[clevermax]

Originally Posted by attrip2008

Any thoughts on the ATF change schedule for Hyundai 6 speed ATs? I have a Creta petrol AT (2018). I have been told a few times by the SA that these are sealed for life which I very much doubt. I have done ~25K so far due to low running but want to keep an eye out on the schedule.

I believe the same transmission is offered in Tucson and Tata Harrier/Safari. So, the idea about maintenance will help a bunch of folks. Thanks.

I have a 6-Speed AT Verna. It has done 52K kms so far. 25K Kms is way too early for you to think about ATF change. I am going to get mine done very soon. The ATF change in mine might be a little overdue considering the fact that my car is remapped (AT had to handle more stress due to increased torque/bhp).

But A.S.S. won't do this. I have to source the ATF, find out the right procedure and then go to some friendly garage to get it done as per my instructions.

Any Hyundai 6-Speed AT specific instructions will be useful for Hyundai/TATA owners.


I found this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YENuCjQeSa8

EDIT: As per Hyundai Website, it is 7.1 Litres of ATF MX4 fluid that we need for changing the ATF in the 6-Speed AT.

https://www.hyundai.com/in/en/connec...ansmission-oil

Now the question is, where can we get this in India?

EDIT2:
I found some more useful info on this thread:
https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/india...ctices-37.html (Hyundai India, unreasonable long term maintenance and service practices!)

[car-go]

Originally Posted by Jeroen

It makes good practice to use the manual gear selector now and then as well. When you keep your transmission in D, some of the solenoids and some of the tiny fluid channels in the brain/mechatronic don't get used. By driving in each gear for 20-30 seconds now and then, you will ensure that the fluid circulates everywhere and the solenoids get activated and don’t get stuck.
Jeroen

Thanks a lot Jeroen, for pointing this out! I was always driving my Jeep Compass in auto, being a convert from my erstwhile manual transmission car. Now I appreciate your point, and need to start driving it in D once a while.

[rrsteer]

Originally Posted by purohitanuj

ATF change @ 30K should cost about 5K. It will not require Oil filter, gasket etc. Best quality fully synthetic ATF should be around 800-850/liter.
Not much labor is required if the box has drain bolt and filler bolt.

Full flush should cost around 10K -12K including labor.

Thanks for your posts. Could you recommend a good quality independent workshops for servicing automatic transmissions in Delhi?