[car-dent]

Hello, i am facing a peculiar problem with my Scross 1.3 Diesel Facelift bought in 2018. It has done about 93k as of now.

Since last couple of months, i am feeling the car to be very juddery and having a rough ride. There is no sound in any component as such or any other problem in driving. No issues in steering control or anything else. I showed it to to the service centre last week during my service at 92.5k kms. They suggested me to change tyres as supposedly they were having eneven wear. (the tyres were CEAT securaDrive changed 2 years ago at 48k kms on ODO, So run about 44k kms.) They checked the suspension and steering, wheel bearing etc to be fine.

I then showed it to a tyre shop and he suggested the same thing.
So, i got the tyres changed to Bridgestone Turanza yesterday. The ride quality is better than before but i still feel the judderiness and vibrations.

The judderiness is so much even on freshly resurfaced Greater Noida expressway that it is always on my mind and i cant get my mind off it.

What else can cause this judderiness and rough ride quality that i should get checked?

[narayans80]

There are only 2 possible causes:

• Hard compound tyres. If this is the case you should have seen since day 1. You might've had JK UX Royales at delivery.
• Tire pressure. I've found 33 all around for driver only feels a bit rough. Its ok if a full house is onboard.

[zeng]

Appears to me to be an alignment issue.

Did you check the wheel alignment and adjust accordingly?

Mind sharing the read outs if any?

[car-dent]

Originally Posted by zeng

Appears to me to be an alignment issue.

Did you check the wheel alignment and adjust accordingly?

Mind sharing the read outs if any?

I got new tyres yesterday and did balancing and alignment.
The ride still feels very bouncy and rough.

[zeng]

Mind sharing the alignment read out for clues??

[SmartCat]

Originally Posted by zeng

Appears to me to be an alignment issue. Did you check the wheel alignment and adjust accordingly? Mind sharing the read outs if any?

Originally Posted by car-dent

I got new tyres yesterday and did balancing and alignment. The ride still feels very bouncy and rough.

Definitely looks like a wheel alignment issue. Do this:

- Drive on rough road at low speeds (say 20 kmph) and take your hands off the steering wheel. Does the steering/car violently move left & right?
- Take a full/sharp turn at slow speeds and let go off the steering wheel. Does it self-center?

If the answer is YES to the first question and NO to the second, you have a wheel alignment problem. Go to some other reputed wheel alignment shop with experienced technicians.

[MT_Hyderabad]

Originally Posted by car-dent

The judderiness is so much even on freshly resurfaced Greater Noida expressway that it is always on my mind and i cant get my mind off it.

I suspect that it is due to engine mounts, but before you get them changed, let me tell you how to rule out other things:

1. Put system D as per recommended dose and drive for 20 odd kms. Now check if vibrations reduced, if they didn't proceed to step 2.

2. Lift the front bonet. Ask someone to observe the engine. Start the car. If there is a lot of movement in the engine, mounts are definitely the culprit. Throttle hard and let go, keep observing the engine. See the gear lever and steering. No significant movement/vibrations in the engine or other parts, move to step 3.

3. Roll down the windows, put the blower and ac off. Move slowly, brake just before a speed breaker or a bump and observe for any sounds from the front suspensions when the car jumps up and down the speed breaker.

4. Put your memory into action and try to identify when this roughness started. If it grew very gradually, replace the engine mounts and suspension bushes. If it started recently, get the injectors cleaned.

I am assuming that fuel filter, oil and oil filter and air filter are in good condition.

Short story: I have Tata Safari Dicor. Same roughness observed. Changed everything including the tires. Roughness reduced but did not go away. Some vibrations observed even during idling.
TASS asked to replace suspensions and other components, estimate provided for 40 k.

I just replaced engine mounts from TASS in ~5k. All vibrations gone from more than an year(since Sept 21)

Please note: There are many other things that can cause these vibrations, but for a less than 1L km driven car, I will target the ones mentioned above.

Please also note: Teambhp Tata Safari Issues thread helped me save the money, even when I was not a member. One of the reasons why I invest my time here, writing long posts and trying to help others and learning more in the process. :-)

[Shreyans_Jain]

The car is over 90000km old. By all means, the dampers would be shot. It is very rare that shockers of mass market cars last this long on typical Indian roads.

The fact that the tires are new leaves only the shockers as the main possible point of concern.

[car-dent]

Originally Posted by zeng

Mind sharing the alignment read out for clues??

Sorry, Don't have the readings with me. I didn't bother to take a print from them.

Originally Posted by SmartCat

Definitely looks like a wheel alignment issue. Do this:

- Drive on rough road at low speeds (say 20 kmph) and take your hands off the steering wheel. Does the steering/car violently move left & right?
- Take a full/sharp turn at slow speeds and let go off the steering wheel. Does it self-center?

If the answer is YES to the first question and NO to the second, you have a wheel alignment problem. Go to some other reputed wheel alignment shop with experienced technicians.

1. NO
2. YES

Still, I will check with another shop for alignment.

Originally Posted by MT_Hyderabad

I suspect that it is due to engine mounts, but before you get them changed, let me tell you how to rule out other things:

1. Put system D as per recommended dose and drive for 20 odd kms. Now check if vibrations reduced, if they didn't proceed to step 2.

2. Lift the front bonet. Ask someone to observe the engine. Start the car. If there is a lot of movement in the engine, mounts are definitely the culprit. Throttle hard and let go, keep observing the engine. See the gear lever and steering. No significant movement/vibrations in the engine or other parts, move to step 3.

3. Roll down the windows, put the blower and ac off. Move slowly, brake just before a speed breaker or a bump and observe for any sounds from the front suspensions when the car jumps up and down the speed breaker.

4. Put your memory into action and try to identify when this roughness started. If it grew very gradually, replace the engine mounts and suspension bushes. If it started recently, get the injectors cleaned.

I am assuming that fuel filter, oil and oil filter and air filter are in good condition.

Short story: I have Tata Safari Dicor. Same roughness observed. Changed everything including the tires. Roughness reduced but did not go away. Some vibrations observed even during idling.
TASS asked to replace suspensions and other components, estimate provided for 40 k.

I just replaced engine mounts from TASS in ~5k. All vibrations gone from more than an year(since Sept 21)

Please note: There are many other things that can cause these vibrations, but for a less than 1L km driven car, I will target the ones mentioned above.

Please also note: Teambhp Tata Safari Issues thread helped me save the money, even when I was not a member. One of the reasons why I invest my time here, writing long posts and trying to help others and learning more in the process. :-)

Thanks for your long post. I will surely try these. Although i had got the car serviced last week at Maruti ASC and they told the engine mounts and suspension to be fine. There seemed to be a small crack in the rubber of the right control arm, but they were of the opinion that it doesn't need replacement yet. I suspect if that could be a reason.

[zeng]

In any upcoming alignment job please always insists on the shop to measure the Rear cambers and toes, never mind whether the rear alignment (of any car make) is adjustable or non-adjustable.

Upload of such 'complete' data could often help in explaining alignment or tyre related 'funny' car behaviour.

[ashivas89]

This seems like a very clear case of shot dampers (shockers). It is not necessary for the damper oil to be leaking out overtly for the dampers to be diagnosed as kaput.

The shims inside the damper used for adjusting the orifice and thereby the damping characteristics could and would have degraded due to the number of miles you've put the car through.

Get new dampers, and have them look at the top mount bushes also while they are at it.

My wife's 11 year old Fabia also has the same problem. Jiggly, unsettled ride even on smooth roads. Lower arm bushings + dampers + top mount all need changing.

I am curious though, on what basis did the ASC give a clean bill of health to the suspension? Did they do a proper objective diagnosis or was it just by performing a visual inspection?

[NYMEX]

Juddery & rough:
Perhaps the clutch plates need replacement, but only if not done earlier at around 60,000 km.


You must get the:
1) engines mounts checked
2) suspension, toe in and camber rechecked
3) gear oil changed from a FNG and this will cost approx Rs. 1,000/-.

[vaibhavyagnik]

Does your car feel rough even when Idling? If yes, Tyres and suspension can be ruled out. the only thing moving when the car is standing still just idling is the engine. Then it could be the flywheel, the engine mounts, engine itself misfiring on one of the cylinders. However engine misfiring may be ruled out because you don't seem to have an engine check light. Also the service centre would have easily caught it.

If the car feels rough only while driving, then it could be the transmission mounts, the transmission itself, clutch, suspension components or tyres. You seemed to have taken the tyres and suspension out of the equation so might look at other components.

[speedguy]

There are three possibilities. First two are stated by most of the members. Still I will list them again:
1. Shock absorbers are gone kaput
2. Engine mounts are worn out
But the third one which I feel strongly is "Axle Skewness"
Please see below image. Get it checked again at a good wheel alignment shop. If the shop has "Hunter" make alignment set up then it is better.
Most Alignment centers do not focus on Rear Axle geometries. Please make it a point to check the same.

[suryaj1990]

Bridgestone is a hard compound rubber. You will in any case require a drive in period for the tyres. After about an initial run of 400km, your tyres should settle in with the vehicle. Check the tyre pressures, keep them at 30 psi. If you yet find her harsh, go upto 27psi all round. Drive for 50-100km on a highway and notice the difference and gradually pull the pressure up over time. In my opinion, 30psi should be ideal