[techmotor]

Dear fellow Team BHP members. I want to share with you my predicament with respect to the endless number of issues on the car I own – A Skoda Rapid 1.6 TDI (Jan 2012 make).

A little background

I love cars. This love started from childhood itself where me and my elder brother would get variety of car magazines, spending hours eagerly going through each page like we’re studying for term examinations in school. On top of that, we used to watch content available via TV on cars including WRC on ESPN, Top Gear on BBC and series like Knight Rider. Our family typically keeps two cars and we had owned HM Ambassadors, with one of them being completely revamped to have platform gear (from the lever type gears behind the steering wheel), a new custom built dashboard with switches to operate music system amongst others, custom fabric/upholstery etc. The entire work – from mechanical to paint job was done at our home itself and I used to hang around there pretending overseeing everything. Also sometimes after school, when the car will be given to the local workshops to fix certain issues, we could see lot of repairing work going on up close. I have seen an engine replacement work being carried out with the engine being shifted with pulleys and all but how much of it I comprehended is a different matter altogether. The other cars we owned include a Tata Estate (we did lot of family trips in this one covering most of South India), Tata Sierra (result of college days craze of my brother), Maruti Zen, Mitsubishi Lancer and Ford Ikon. I took my baby steps in driving in an Ambassador, then the Estate and graduating to Lancer and Ikon. I went to driving school just to get the license and by that time I was a confident driver thanks to all the cars I’ve driven with both my brother as well as family driver encouraging and giving me opportunities to drive.

Disclaimer: All my driving lessons were done in controlled environments only and under supervision. Our home being on the outskirts also helped a lot.

Except for the first Amby, rest all were diesel models and probably that’s why I still prefer diesels over petrol. We never had any major issues with these vehicles and since I was so used to the low end torque and moving the car with just clutch modulation, for a long time I couldn’t adjust with petrol engines. But then I got to drive some good NA petrol engines and I learnt not all petrol vehicles are boring to drive.

That’s all for the background for now before you get bored. Maybe I’ll write about my different driving experiences in another thread, at some another time.

Let’s fast forward several years. It was almost the end of 2010 and after working for 3 years in BLR, I’ve relocated to Trivandrum (TRV), Kerala. By first half of 2011, it was obvious that I need a personal vehicle and thus began the search for my car. It was at this time, I got to learn about Team BHP as well and from then onwards this has been, still is and will be, my primary and trusted source for all vehicle related information.

Car hunting – My first car

I was looking for a hatchback as it’ll be primarily used only for office commute and weekly trip to my home town (80 KMs from TRV). Following were my requirements.

• It should be a driver’s car. Since I have driven Ford Ikon extensively and also Ford Fusion and the first gen Figo, the ride and handling was of at most importance to me.
• A diesel engine with zero turbo lag.
• Exterior design should be neat with good proportions.
• Budget of up to 8L OTR.

Started taking TDs of some vehicles. I remember taking TD of Hyundai i20 (the early ones at 2011) and was left highly unimpressed with the handling. No steering feedback, having the car move unpredictably on 50+ Kmph on slight steering input etc. made me swear not to look at any more Hyundai cars. This is strictly my personal opinion and I mean no offense to existing owners and it seems they are much improved in the handling department nowadays.

Next was a car not on my list but got a chance to drive thanks to my brother who got it from a friend of his. It was a VW Polo TDI (1.2L, 75 bhp IIRC) and I was blown away by all aspects of it except for the lack of power and it had considerable turbo lag as well. There were rumours of 1.6L engine being introduced at a later point in time but no tentative date of availability so I decided to wait for some more time as it’d fit my requirements to a T. In the mean time I did TDs of other vehicles, went back to Ford due to lack of options but didn’t find anything new. I also came to know about EcoSport via scoops and still remember digging through the web to get more info on the details, launch etc. But nothing was confirmed and my hunt for a car continued. It was November 2011 and having no news about Polo 1.6 TDI or EcoSport, I finally took a decision to go with Polo 1.2 TDI. We went to the showroom and gave a token advance of 10K. Back on my mind, I was still uncomfortable with the fact that I’m going to get an underpowered engine but was trying to make truce between mind (need) and heart (want).

The Twist

My brother comes in one day and asks me to go for a Sedan. Now, the reason for not considering a sedan earlier was that there was no need for a bigger vehicle. Moreover I was in my mid 20’s and most of my colleagues were using two wheelers, so spending even more money for a sedan was not even in my mind. However, he gave me some solid points regarding space and comfort (especially considering our parents), powerful engines, vehicle respect etc. and by the end of our conversation I was fully convinced. Yes, Sedan it was at the cost of a final stretched budget of 10L OTR.

Now this has opened up room for some more options and the immediate option that logically came to my mind was the Vento since it’s a stretched polo with the 1.6L engine. But the variant I was looking for was exceeding my budget so was in a dilemma again. But all these confusion ended quickly as Skoda has introduced in the same month (November 2011), a new model Rapid based on the same platform as Vento. What was even more attractive was that it was priced lower than similar spec Vento. Team BHP review came very soon after and the positive review of the vehicle here sealed my decision. Team BHP always pointed out the horrible after sales experience of Skoda but I decided to go for it considering that most of the complaints I came to know was about transmission failures. There was also this thread on dealer swapping out factory fitted parts with fake ones (Related thread given below).

https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/india...e-settled.html (Skoda dealer changes parts in my car = Consumer Court. *UPDATE* Case Settled!)

https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/india...-users-41.html (Team-BHP stands for the TRUTH. But Skoda wants to “instigate” Team-BHP and its users!)

Considering these as a rare case and that it has been brought to the public attention, I assumed (a costly mistake) I’d be having a relatively niggle free experience. Moreover, I haven’t faced any issues on the cars I mentioned in the prologue, so how bad can it get? Also it’s been over a year since my car hunt started and I really needed a vehicle. So that’s how I ended up buying my first car with my own money.

Off topic - I wanted to post in the below thread by @GTO but since all of the members posted good things about their first car, I abstained from posting with deep regret.
https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/india...own-money.html (How old were you when you bought your first car with your own money?)

Booking Process

The dealer in TRV didn’t have any TD vehicle and there was no proper response on when they could arrange one. The next dealership was at Cochin (COK) which is about 200 KMs from TRV. On enquiring, they told they have a TD vehicle. Since there was lot of work in office, I’ve asked my father and brother to go and check the vehicle. My brother gave a thumps up for the car after TD and I’ve asked them to do the booking. Since I’ve driven Polo and since my brother said OK, I didn’t need another TD. I didn’t want to procrastinate the booking any further. Please note that this Skoda dealership at COK had just started their operations. Brother told the red color was sporty but they didn’t have stock and mentioned longer waiting period. They mentioned a white color model can be arranged faster and thus we made the booking for the same. The mid-variant (Ambition) was chosen and the final price was around 9.5L OTR. No accessories were given/promoted even the essentials like mud flaps, rubber mats etc. due to unavailability - A term I started hearing thereon from all Skoda service centres. Finally we took the delivery of the car from the COK dealership on February 2012. During the key hand over process, the young lady told me "Happy Riding". Little did I know that I was going to be taken for a ride - A roller-coaster ride .

Sharing couple of pics.




What I like

• Solid build. Be it the thud sound on door close, the heft on the door panels, bonnet etc., everything is built to last. Clean and understated design that ages well.
• Excellent fit and finish. No uneven panel gaps inside-out, no creeks, solid and premium buttons and stalks for headlamp/fog lamp operations, indicators, wipers etc. Huge boot space.
• Simply clever features - One touch window up and down for all 4 windows and with anti-pinch function. The same can be controlled using remote key. Another really useful feature with the ORVM is that it rotates 180 degree in case of an impact. I found this super useful when there were couple of incidents with bikers knocking the ORVMs. With most other cars, this would have resulted in a broken and hanging ORVM.
• Zero turbo lag. There is ample low end torque and the car jumps into action once we engage first gear and slowly release the C pedal. Shift to 3rd gear, do a pedal to the metal and you’ll be pushed back to your seat with the torque surge. Really useful when doing highway overtakes.
• Steering feedback was good despite being an EPS. I was used to Ford’s HPS and though I missed it due to the incredibly direct feedback (the driver and car becomes and acts as one), there was no complaints on the EPS on Rapid. It obeys the driver’s inputs.
• High speed stability is excellent. No noticeable body roll, can handle corners with ease while speeding.

What I don’t like

• No points for guessing the first item. Skoda’s terrible after sales service.
• There are some ergonomic issues for tall drivers. I’m 6 feet and with the seating position I preferred, my head was very close to touching the roof liner and the IRVM was blocking a clear view of the front. Also, there was this problem of left knee scrubbing against the dashboard area. Thanks to the seat height adjustment and steering adjustment (reach and rake), I was able to find an alternative seating position albeit compromising some comfort.
• Pathetic tire profile at 175/70 R14. Upgrade is a must but options are limited because of the 14”.
• Front head lamp strictly average.
• Engine clatter (especially on cold starts) is more compared to diesel standards.
• Front fascia from Fabia, especially headlight design and grill, though the facelift versions corrected it the way it was meant to be.

The never ending issues

As you might know, Skoda had a standard warranty of 2 years/1 Lakh Km (whichever is earlier) during the time I have booked. And I haven’t opted for the extended warranty because we never had the need for the same for the vehicles we owned previously. European cars being a new territory for me, I’d overlooked this fact even though there was strict caution in Team BHP forums. A lesson learnt the hard way. And the lesson learned is to pay heed to what our forum experts says from moderators to distinguished BHPians. It’d prove to be useful in the long run.

The issues started after a year with about 19K on the Odo and 6 months after the first paid service. From there onwards till now, the issue has not been properly rectified. Following screenshots contain the entire service history(in descending order).





Long story short, I’ve done about 31 visits to the service centre till now out of which 18 visits were related to running repairs. The major components changed were EGR valve, fuel injectors and ABS sensors. The fuel injector complaints were the core issue with 4 of them replaced under warranty, one time on good will, and the other time from my pocket. I had also filed a consumer case against this during the initial years after reporting the issue but let it go as I was fed up of this extremely time consuming process. Moreover, I was too busy with work and personal matters.

In 2015, the vehicle was involved in an accident which was not due to my fault. A bike from opposite side hit another vehicle's ORVM while overtaking and lost control and hit my car. The front bumper, headlamp assembly on the RHS and AC condenser related work were carried out. The fuel injector have failed couple of times since then and the glow plug once as detailed in the service history pics.

As of now, the car has clocked approximately 84K Kms and is currently in a non-drivable condition because of the check engine light and reduced power. It’s showing all signs of an injector failure yet again. I have got the last injector replaced 4 to 5 months back only.

I also have the following doubts.

1. Being one of the early buyers of the Rapid model, did I end up getting a lemon? Skoda has never acknowledged this but the issues I’ve been facing with the car is nothing short of something that happens with a lemon. Using Team BHP VIN decoder, MY is Jan 2012. Considering that the car was launched just couple of months back (Nov 2011), my car should be from the very initial batch.
2. Did the COK dealership play something foul since the dealership was closed just one year after starting their operations and coinciding with the time I have filed a law suit? Was I given a display or TD vehicle? I wanted a Red color but they told that it’ll take some time and they do have a white one in stock and hence I went with the white one. I did the mistake of not doing a proper PDI as this was my first car buying experience. Also since I had only started following team bhp, I didn’t go through the vast articles available on PDI.

What Next?

I have the following options now.

1. Get it repaired from Skoda authorized service centre and hope the issue won’t come up for at least 2 years. Or sell it after repairing.
2. Get it repaired from outside and keep it or sell it.
3. Try using additives such a Liqui Moly and see if it makes any difference.
4. Sell the car to the current dealership without repairing and getting a quote from them. This option, I already discussed with the CRM and they said only exchange can be considered. After all these experience with Skoda, I didn’t want to invest in yet another Skoda vehicle so I declined that.

That leaves me with option 1, 2 and 3. What do you guys think? Please provide your valuable suggestions so that I can take an informed decision whether to retain the car or sell it.

Attaching some more pics taken this month. Even after 10 years the design doesn't look outdated.

[GTO]

Thread moved out from the Assembly Line. Thanks for sharing!

[asit.kulkarni93]

Sorry to hear about your troubles.

It's best you move the car to a competent FNG. The key to maintaing a VAG in India is a competent FNG not the SVC. Secondly, it has been observed that relatively lesser run TDi equipped cars run into injector trouble quite often. 84k KMs in 10 years, approx translates to 700 kms per month which is less for a diesel. You can search across the forum and I have come across plenty of 1.6 TDis which haven't faced any issues because of higher usage. If you don't see your usage increasing, the least you can do is not let diesel sit in the tank for a while. Don't keep it fully filled. The sulphur content in most cases is the reason for injector clogging.

[AKSarkar1]

While I can't comment on the other problems, the ABS and wheel speed sensor are relatively common faults. In my 7 years of ownership of a Petrol VW Vento, I have had to replace the ABS sensor around 6 times.

I personally don't think that your car is a lemon, even with repairs a lemon wouldn't have lasted so long.

As for the future actions, it all depends on whether or not you want an upgrade and are willing to pay for the same. IMHO it is hard to find a car that offers the same value (if not more) than the Rapid at a comparable price. It might make more sense for you to get an external quote from a reputable garage for the job which will definitely be cheaper than official repairs.

[roadrunner_nv]

After replacing 6 injectors and a whole lot of other issues, I’ve realised that chronic pain can be relieved by moving on. I sold my Rapid in fantastic condition and moved on to A competitive brand. Today, I’m happy, smiling and relieved. The wallet took a hit but what I have gained (peace of mind) is priceless.

[Piyush Kanthak]

Well my uncle also owned a Rapid TDI, he literally sold the car for scrap after it broke down the 6 th time. He was absolutely furious, but on the other side he says that there isn't any other car except a Skoda which can replace my Rapid.

[Kosfactor]

Nothing unusual that I can see however a few things you can do if you are unable to replace the car immediately.

1. Remove the fuel tank and lift pump, clean up everything.
2. Overhaul the injectors at an injector service center.
3. Replace the diesel filter.

Keep an eye on the oil consumption, if its starting to drink engine oil - you need to think of selling the car before it gets worse.

[techmotor]

Originally Posted by asit.kulkarni93

84k KMs in 10 years, approx translates to 700 kms per month which is less for a diesel. You can search across the forum and I have come across plenty of 1.6 TDis which haven't faced any issues because of higher usage.

Low running was because the car was not reliable for long running . I was stranded in the middle of the highway for couple of times and I have been using other vehicles for long trips. The first paid service was done on March 2013 with 12769 KM on ODO. The running repair(EGR valve and all) was done on Sep 2013 at 19793 KM on ODO which translates to 7024 KM in 6 months. So you can see I would I have crossed 130K mark with regular running. And of course there was this pandemic period where all of us had no choice but to keep the vehicle not running though I used to start it a move around a bit inside our compound.

Originally Posted by roadrunner_nv

... and moved on to A competitive brand. Today, I’m happy, smiling and relieved. The wallet took a hit but what I have gained (peace of mind) is priceless.

May I know which brand and model you went for. Was it a Toyota?

Originally Posted by Piyush Kanthak

Well my uncle also owned a Rapid TDI, he literally sold the car for scrap after it broke down the 6 th time. He was absolutely furious, but on the other side he says that there isn't any other car except a Skoda which can replace my Rapid.

True that when it comes to the machine itself w.r.t ride, handling, performance and solid feel with lots of practicality, there are too few options to replace the Rapid. But with this type of issues and support, we'll have less time to appreciate the aforementioned +ves.

[sbm]

Originally Posted by asit.kulkarni93

Sorry to hear about your troubles.

It's best you move the car to a competent FNG. The key to maintaing a VAG in India is a competent FNG not the SVC. Secondly, it has been observed that relatively lesser run TDi equipped cars run into injector trouble quite often. 84k KMs in 10 years, approx translates to 700 kms per month which is less for a diesel. You can search across the forum and I have come across plenty of 1.6 TDis which haven't faced any issues because of higher usage. If you don't see your usage increasing, the least you can do is not let diesel sit in the tank for a while. Don't keep it fully filled. The sulphur content in most cases is the reason for injector clogging.

You mentioned that low running can cause injector troubles. Is this specific to VAG TDi engines or diesel engines in general? Also isn't the sulphur content in BS6 diesel has been reduced leading to fewer clogging issues.

[Doge]

The car isn’t a lemon, this a quality control problem. The injectors failing is a common problem on these 1.6’s VAG engines but I would expect the newer ones to stop failing, ie VW fixing their flaws or lack of quality but that doesn’t seem to be the case. I don’t know if this is because of the fuel here, they should have tested and designed a car that can run in India.
I don’t think they have learned still, with the Kushaq injectors failing so this doesn’t limit it to the diesels either. I think this is inexcusable, forget issuing a recall, they didn’t even rectify the parts quality since it keeps failing.

[nitkel]

The most logical thing to do is ask a few car dealers for the resale value of the car in the current condition. Then check with independent garages how much will it cost you to repair it. Most of the times the garages themselves will suggest you the resale value as they have contacts with car dealers. Then you decide whether it's more profitable to repair and sell or just sell it off in the as in condition. I believe you should get rid of the car as it's a white elephant now given it's age and problems.

[Altocumulus]

Originally Posted by Doge

The car isn’t a lemon, this a quality control problem. The injectors failing is a common problem on these 1.6’s VAG engines but I would expect the newer ones to stop failing, ie VW fixing their flaws or lack of quality but that doesn’t seem to be the case. I don’t know if this is because of the fuel here, they should have tested and designed a car that can run in India.
I don’t think they have learned still, with the Kushaq injectors failing so this doesn’t limit it to the diesels either. I think this is inexcusable, forget issuing a recall, they didn’t even rectify the parts quality since it keeps failing.

Injector issues are same with the Renault 110 BHP engines as well. This is because these are piezoelectric injectors and are very sensitive to fuel quality and electrical inputs. Even if your battery is not charged enough it can mess it up.

By the way, when did Kushaq injectors fail ?

[hrman]

Sorry to hear about what you have gone through. I have an April '12 mfg Skoda Rapid which is touch wood doing duty for me now. I have had my fair share of issues: Primary one was Coolant Pump failure and engine mount replacement just 5 months after extended warranty expired. This set me back by 18k at that time.
After that, I started giving it to an FNG post the dieselgate to avoid the mandatory ECU update. I am at least assured the FNG will repair instead of replace. Along the way, I have had the front right abs sensor replaced, but it cost some 2-2.5k.

Someone else pointed on this thread about the low usage of diesel vehicle contributing to fuel injector failure. In my opinion, when Skoda started manufacturing the Rapid, they lifted lots of parts from the Vento, including the faulty Fuel injectors. I see more Vento Fuel injector failures than Rapid.

Further I also see more failures after the ECU software was updated post dieselgate for all VAG cars. You never know if they have deliberately build in some failure code to put more stress on Fuel Injectors, leading to more failures.

From the looks of it, I can conclude you were saddled with a lemon.
If I were you, ill repair it upto a running condition, sell it off and move on to another brand (Maruti would be my choice). Its really not worth carrying on this charade and losing sleep and peace of mind even after 10 years. You owe it to yourself.

[Doge]

Originally Posted by Altocumulus

Injector issues are same with the Renault 110 BHP engines as well. This is because these are piezoelectric injectors and are very sensitive to fuel quality and electrical inputs. Even if your battery is not charged enough it can mess it up.

By the way, when did Kushaq injectors fail ?

I meant fuel pump* for the Kushaq.
The Terrano and Duster failures came to my mind too, interesting that this is a design defect, as per your post.

[aniketi]

Originally Posted by techmotor

I have the following options now.

1. Get it repaired from Skoda authorized service centre and hope the issue won’t come up for at least 2 years. Or sell it after repairing.
2. Get it repaired from outside and keep it or sell it.
3. Try using additives such a Liqui Moly and see if it makes any difference.
4. Sell the car to the current dealership without repairing and getting a quote from them. This option, I already discussed with the CRM and they said only exchange can be considered. After all these experience with Skoda, I didn’t want to invest in yet another Skoda vehicle so I declined that.

That leaves me with option 1, 2 and 3. What do you guys think? Please provide your valuable suggestions so that I can take an informed decision whether to retain the car or sell it.

Attaching some more pics taken this month. Even after 10 years the design doesn't look outdated.

Attachment 2294651
Attachment 2294649
Attachment 2294650

My suggestion would be to get rid of this car and buy something new. No point in spending more & more money. Looks like you got lemon car here. Why spend time, money and add to your frustration? Just buy something else and enjoy your new ride. Life is short, don't waste your precious time in getting your car repaired instead of driving it.

Whenever I think of buying German car, some or other horrible story pops up in Team-BHP, I am not kidding. I was thinking of taking a look at Virtus as my second car at home, thinking of buying car around Diwali. But seeing such stories, I am afraid if I should take a bet for 15-20 Lakhs of my hard earned money on any of the German car.

Currently I own Ertiga Zxi+ 2021 model. In last 12 years, this is my third new Maruti car. Believe me, I haven't faced a single issue in last 12 years for any of my 3 Maruti's, I am not kidding. Never ever I have to visit service station apart from regular servicing. I just did regular servicing at prescribed intervals at authorized Maruti service stations and service costs are also very reasonable. I guess that's why Maruti is number 1 in India.