[techspark]

I have a 2013 Maruti Swift VXI (no abs) and couple years back I had issue with the brake pedal getting locked at slow speed (around 10 kmph) and the car just drifting ahead and not stopping in time. I almost got lucky and saved myself couple of times from hitting the car ahead. I showed this to local mechanic he was not able to reproduce the problem as it happened very randomly but he suggested to change the brake pads, clean the drums and do a throttle body clean - I did all of it and for good 1-2 years didn’t face the issue again. I even changed my brake callipers and brake oil along with clucth and fly wheel in last service (around 6 months back) and now recently my tires lock up and brake pedal becomes hard when going down slope at speed of 10kmph so if I press the brake pedal slightly harder (it happens 5 out of 10 times) and even if it brakes properly the first time, if I release the pedal for 1 sec and press it again in 2 secs - it won’t brake at all, the pedal becomes hard and car drifts ahead. I have been able to reproduce this issue 3-4 times last week when I took my car to the malls parking lot - it generally happens only going downhill and not otherwise. I want to know if this behaviour is natural or if I am right in being concerned. All four tires of my car are new tires and brake pads are just 1 year old. Car is in very good shape otherwise except it always makes a whistle noise in first start ( what could be the cause of this? )

Any inputs will be greatly appreciated. Thank you!

[iamahunter]

Hi, I had the Swift model as same as yours, but a diesel one and Non-ABS VDI.

Usually when we keep the brakes pressed while the car is moving , the pads heat up and would probably cause the jam.
As your mentioned this happens while going downhill this can be a reason.

With the given information its difficult to shortlist one particular reason. However, I had made it a practice to climb down to 1st gear while going down hill and use the brakes only to stop, and as on the 1st gear, the car is slow, I hardly needed to put pressure.

Try to avoid driving with the brakes pressed, try to pump (press and release in quick successions). See how it works, if this helps and you don't lock up the brakes, you have the root cause at hand.

[toiingg]

Please get your master & slave cylinder checked.

[dhanushs]

Originally Posted by techspark

.... even if it brakes properly the first time, if I release the pedal for 1 sec and press it again in 2 secs - it won’t brake at all, the pedal becomes hard and car drifts ahead. ...

I think you have a problem with your brake booster. Not enough vaccume for the second time. Also, get your MC checked.

W.R.T First time, I think the culprit was your tyres not getting enough grip.

[YD14]

Originally Posted by techspark

the pedal becomes hard and car drifts ahead.
....
Car is in very good shape otherwise except it always makes a whistle noise in first start

These two definitely point towards a vacuum leak and brake booster not working properly. Although the whistling could be due to a lot of reasons. But definitely get the vacuum system and brake booster checked.

Originally Posted by iamahunter

Usually when we keep the brakes pressed while the car is moving , the pads heat up and would probably cause the jam.

In my knowledge, brake pads and fluid heating up cause the brakes to become soft and spongy, not hard. Can the opposite occur too?

[jomson13]

Originally Posted by dhanushs

I think you have a problem with your brake booster. Not enough vaccume for the second time. Also, get your MC checked.

Originally Posted by YD14

These two definitely point towards a vacuum leak and brake booster not working properly. Although the whistling could be due to a lot of reasons. But definitely get the vacuum system and brake booster checked.


In my knowledge, brake pads and fluid heating up cause the brakes to become soft and spongy, not hard. Can the opposite occur too?

Fully agree with dhanushs and YD, this definitely is a vacuum circuit problem.
What I don't understand is why it doesn't happen regularly? You mentioned it happens on downslopes - can't think of why it happens only in this condition.

[techspark]

Thank you everyone for your valuable inputs!

Usually when we keep the brakes pressed while the car is moving , the pads heat up and would probably cause the jam.
As your mentioned this happens while going downhill this can be a reason.

I do not keep the brakes pressed at all times while it is going down. I understand if the car is at halt at a signal and I keep holding the brakes, the brakes will get heated up and it will cause the peddle to stiffen but in this case when I am going downhill I only press the brake for 2 secs, lift up my leg and press it again in 2 secs and I dont think it should heat up in this much time.

Please get your master & slave cylinder checked.

I think you have a problem with your brake booster. Not enough vaccume for the second time. Also, get your MC checked.

My regular service is due next month, I am planning to get the entire brake system inspected. Is it okay if use the car now for a month as it is or is it risky? Since the issue is only faced while going downhill I am always extra cautious then.

Also, what all should I tell the service center to check so that I can tell him I know stuff and he can't take me for a ride.

These two definitely point towards a vacuum leak and brake booster not working properly. Although the whistling could be due to a lot of reasons. But definitely get the vacuum system and brake booster checked.

I forgot to mention my car's AC gas was refilled two times in the last 6 months and on first occasion the mass guy told me that there is no leak but on second occasion he changed the cooling coil - can that whistling sound be an indication of something leaking again too?

What I don't understand is why it doesn't happen regularly? You mentioned it happens on downslopes - can't think of why it happens only in this condition.

Yes, only downslopes, been trying to replicate it on flat surfaces but the brakes work fine. Going down slope, the brakes lock and car just drifts ahead as if the tyres were locked and the car was on some amusement slide.

[R2D2]

Originally Posted by techspark

I do not keep the brakes pressed at all times while it is going down. I understand if the car is at halt at a signal and I keep holding the brakes, the brakes will get heated up and it will cause the peddle to stiffen but in this case when I am going downhill I only press the brake for 2 secs, lift up my leg and press it again in 2 secs and I dont think it should heat up in this much time.

The proper way to brake (not in an emergency of course) is to push the pedal down firmly and hold it there till the vehicle slows down to the desired speed. Pumping the pedal every 2 seconds only serves to reduce the braking effect and if your car has ABS this method of operation will interfere with proper ABS functioning.

Weak braking effect can be caused by a variety of factors but in your case I too think it is a booster vacuum leak caused by faulty or a improperly fitted vacuum hose. The next thing I would check is sticking calipers i.e. caliper pin operation which cause overheated brakes. And thirdly but not necessarily any less important, is contaminated brake fluid. A proper brake fluid flush is required every >2-3 years especially in hot & humid climes present in coastal cities.

My regular service is due next month, I am planning to get the entire brake system inspected. Is it okay if use the car now for a month as it is or is it risky? Since the issue is only faced while going downhill I am always extra cautious then.

Always use engine braking whilst going downhill. Rule of the thumb - use the same gear when going down as you did when climbing the incline. Never coast downhill in neutral or with the clutch pedal or, worse still, with the engine switched off .

If my cars exhibit these traits they will be taken to the service station on a flat bed or a tow truck. I refuse to drive a vehicle with compromised brakes. It is your call.

Also, what all should I tell the service center to check so that I can tell him I know stuff and he can't take me for a ride.

See the 1st para above

I forgot to mention my car's AC gas was refilled two times in the last 6 months and on first occasion the mass guy told me that there is no leak but on second occasion he changed the cooling coil - can that whistling sound be an indication of something leaking again too?

It is possible that a hose was dislodged or loose. You need to get the brake system checked very carefully.

Yes, only downslopes, been trying to replicate it on flat surfaces but the brakes work fine. Going down slope, the brakes lock and car just drifts ahead as if the tyres were locked and the car was on some amusement slide.

Yikes mate, I really don't know how you drive your car in this condition. Seriously, my advice is to not use it till the brake system is in proper working order.

[skb1811]

I 100% agree with R2D2 l, driving a car with faulty brakes is extremely dangerous.

The Master/Slave cylinders definitely need looking over, and while you're at it, get the brake pads and rotors a good check as well, to be on the safer side

[vikram_cl55]

Originally Posted by techspark

I have a 2013 Maruti Swift VXI (no abs) and couple years back I had issue with the brake pedal getting locked at slow speed (around 10 kmph) and the car just drifting ahead and not stopping in time. I almost got lucky and saved myself couple of times from hitting the car ahead. I showed this to local mechanic he was not able to reproduce the problem as it happened very randomly but he suggested to change the brake pads, clean the drums and do a throttle body clean - I did all of it and for good 1-2 years didn’t face the issue again. I even changed my brake callipers and brake oil along with clucth and fly wheel in last service (around 6 months back) and now recently my tires lock up and brake pedal becomes hard when going down slope at speed of 10kmph so if I press the brake pedal slightly harder (it happens 5 out of 10 times) and even if it brakes properly the first time, if I release the pedal for 1 sec and press it again in 2 secs - it won’t brake at all, the pedal becomes hard and car drifts ahead. I have been able to reproduce this issue 3-4 times last week when I took my car to the malls parking lot - it generally happens only going downhill and not otherwise. I want to know if this behaviour is natural or if I am right in being concerned. All four tires of my car are new tires and brake pads are just 1 year old. Car is in very good shape otherwise except it always makes a whistle noise in first start ( what could be the cause of this? )

So I owned the very car with the same model year, co-incidentally white too. The same issue I dealt with, with a hack of sorts. I observed very carefully that (with an OBD adapter of course) generally the engine if Petrol would idle around the 900RPM mark. I observed the RPM makes spiky drops randomly around low speeds for example while coasting on neutral like downhill in a parking lot or while rolling in traffic. I'm not entirely sure but the '13 model swifts which were diesel had a recall to maintain the RPM above a certain value to prevent the brake from Jamming up, but the Petrol variants didn't get one for some reason.

If you've observed when the brake does jam up, the pedal feels the same way it does when the engine is switched off. I even had a minor accident once because the car didn't stop rolling in bumper to bumper traffic.

A word of advice since it looks like there is no permanent fix for this unless you can get someone tweak the ECU just like the OEM,

1. Never coast downhill or on flat land in Neutral, keeping the Engine RPM atleast 900 (or 1000)

2. In bumper to bumper traffic remember to wait for the next car to move an extra distance before you move, so you can apply some throttle before coming to a halt again.

Anyway, safe travels

[advenk999]

You may want to get the brake booster checked. There is inadequate vaccum generated to pump that results in the pedal getting hard/ lack of feel and bite in the brakes.
This was an issue with most 2nd generation petrol Swifts without ABS.
You may also get your master and slave cylinder checked once to be on the safer side.
The car can be driven for short bits, no issues but try constantly pumping the brakes whenever you get the space on the road at different speeds/rpms and the brakes behave better as adequate vaccum is created.

Get this checked for peace of mind and enjoy the miles on that beautiful K12 engine.

[Taha Mir]

Check brake booster and it's vaccum line connected to the air intake or engine. Vaccum line rubber hose may get hard over time, develop minute holes and lose its holding capacity at times.

[tejaslalit]

Originally Posted by techspark

I have a 2013 Maruti Swift VXI (no abs) and couple years back I had issue with the brake pedal getting locked at slow speed (around 10 kmph) and the car just drifting ahead and not stopping in time. I almost got lucky and saved myself couple of times from hitting the car ahead. I showed this to local mechanic he was not able to reproduce the problem as it happened very randomly but he suggested to change the brake pads, clean the drums and do a throttle body clean - I did all of it and for good 1-2 years didn’t face the issue again. I even changed my brake callipers and brake oil along with clucth and fly wheel in last service (around 6 months back) and now recently my tires lock up and brake pedal becomes hard when going down slope at speed of 10kmph so if I press the brake pedal slightly harder (it happens 5 out of 10 times) and even if it brakes properly the first time, if I release the pedal for 1 sec and press it again in 2 secs - it won’t brake at all, the pedal becomes hard and car drifts ahead. I have been able to reproduce this issue 3-4 times last week when I took my car to the malls parking lot - it generally happens only going downhill and not otherwise. I want to know if this behaviour is natural or if I am right in being concerned. All four tires of my car are new tires and brake pads are just 1 year old. Car is in very good shape otherwise except it always makes a whistle noise in first start ( what could be the cause of this? )

Any inputs will be greatly appreciated. Thank you!

Hi techspark, this is my first post on Team BHP forum. First and foremost i would like to thank team bhp moderators for approving my membership.

I own 2012 maruti suzuki swift vxi petrol model. The issue which you have mentioned exists in all non abs swift 2nd generation models.

I was facing this issue since day 1.

Let me elaborate my braking issues.

1) When i used to switch on my Ac,Headlights my brake pedal used to become very hard,i had to increase my rpm to make the pedal softer.

2) In bumper to bumper traffic in the morning with all accessories and headlights off, my brake pedal used to become hard occasionally.

In the year 2013, just 1 year after my purchase i took my car to sai service ,mumbai (western express highway andheri) to show them the issue (even escalated it to maruti), however after checking all the brake system thoroughly, they said nothing is wrong and blamed my driving style.

Fast forward to 2022: I was on a solo trip to uttarakhand and in bumper to bumper traffic the issue cropped up and i touched a biker in Dehradun. He created a big fuss.

After i returned to Mumbai, i became very furious and straight away escalated the issue to Maruti Delhi head office, Mumbai regional office (with Territory service manager Roshan) and sai service.

The issue heated up and as soon as my car reached sai service andheri ,workshop manager, floor manager( Mr. Manish ) and my service advisor (Mr.Dharmendra) were ready to diagnose the issue.

This time they instantly accepted the issue. We all were of the conclusion that the issue exists because engine rpm drops rendering inadequate vacuum to brake booster.

The diagnosis was immediately shared with TSM Mr Amit Roshan.He asked sai service to do following things
(1)Tappet setting
(2)Ecu update:to detect fall in rpm and correct it.

My tappet setting after thorough check was as per the standards.

Since the issue was with maruti,they sent an ecu update (release year 2014) to sai service and they updated my ecu software.

After the update i noticed two things (1)improved fuel efficiency (2)rpm not falling below a threshold wherein brake booster becomes ineffective.

The issue stands resolved now. Although i am impressed at maruti's customer service, I am also furious at them for not updating ecu software of all the affected cars.

Since you live in Mumbai,you can approach the above mentioned MASS and they will resolve your issue. I am pretty sure your braking system is alright and doesn't need an overhaul.

I am attaching my job card's scanned copy.Kindly refer to serial no 25,26 and 28.


Hope maruti resolves your issue and you enjoy peaceful ownership of the car

[cka]

Bumping up this old thread as after 11 years of peaceful driving the same issue suddenly cropped up in my 2013 Swift VXI. Issue is eactly the same as mentioned by techspark and tejaslalit. This car goes for regular service to a local mechanic since last 3-4 years. The issue started happening just after the last service. When it happened for first time I brushed it off thinking its just in my head and then I started noticing this issue while going down in parking lot. Showed it to local mechanics and they said that they have seen similar issues but dont know diagnosis of the issue. Made a quick search on tbhp and found this thread. Thank You guys for sharing. I will try to diagnose the issue using above help.