[Gurkha]

Speaking of NASCAR, their teams have been sponsored by questionable products like Slick 50, NASCAR teams come from many backgrounds and smaller teams are cash starved and will take anyone if they are paying good. As for HRC and TRD using K&N like material for their cars, I seriously doubt they would be willing to blow million dollar engines by letting in more dirt. The materials used in my race kitted RC 45 is far from K&N as far as my eyes can make out. There are no K&N in AMG MB or Brabus MB/BMW etc.

Before the advent of fuel injections, majority NASCAR cars would run velocity stacks and use no air filters, the oval tracks are kept quite clean so no risk of excess dirt getting in and damaging your engine.

[ScarySkulls]

Nice thoughts from a guy who has seen the racing scene himself since past decades and participated in it too.

[WhiteKnight]

Originally Posted by Gurkha

Speaking of NASCAR, their teams have been sponsored by questionable products like Slick 50, NASCAR teams come from many backgrounds and smaller teams are cash starved and will take anyone if they are paying good.

Your statement is applicable to all racing/rally teams. All, including F1 teams are sponsored, and small F1 teams are equally cash starved.

So what is the point you are trying to make?

Originally Posted by Gurkha

I seriously doubt they would be willing to blow million dollar engines by letting in more dirt

Oh they do...They race to win. They don't do it to write long term ownership report at 80,000 Kms

One final question, you said AMG MB or Brabus MB/BMW does not use K&N. Do they use AC DELCO, WIX, XXX?

[Gurkha]

Show me Slick 50 sponsorship in F-1. Companies like that wouldn't be able to muster up cash for even the smallest F-1 team. Its a different realm than NASCAR.

Blowing a million dollar engine purposely would mean loosing the race as well as the championship if its frequent, 19000 rpm for 60 laps means a lifetime for many consumer engines, speck of dirt will turn to industrial grade diamonds inside the combustion chamber. AMG et al usually get filters made by 3rd party vendors but that doesn't include K&N. I see a defensive ( K&N ) as well as aggresive ( towards me ) posturing being taken by you, not necessary as all I am showing is the facts, as I said before in my posts, if you like K&N and feel it makes a difference, please continue using so by all means.

[Gurkha]

Originally Posted by ScarySkulls

Nice thoughts from a guy who has seen the racing scene himself since past decades and participated in it too.

If that was meant for me, many thanks, afraid, I am a relic and did all that long time back and now I am out of touch with all of you youngsters.

[WhiteKnight]

Originally Posted by Gurkha

Blowing a million dollar engine purposely would mean loosing the race as well as the championship if its frequent, 19000 rpm for 60 laps means a lifetime for many consumer engines, speck of dirt will turn to industrial grade diamonds inside the combustion chamber.

I just said everyone race to WIN. I am not sure how you got the idea of "Blowing a million dollar engine purposely".

Originally Posted by Gurkha

AMG et al usually get filters made by 3rd party vendors but that doesn't include K&N.

I am not an expert in racing. My original question was whether AMG/Brabus use any of the other filters mentioned in the study you quoted? Would you please answer?
If NONE are used by them, for a common man like me, you singling out K&N not being used by AMG doesn't make any sence.

If you read the study you quoted carefully, you would see that the study as such is not biased

FILTER % EFFICIENCY
Best) AC Delco OE 99.93%
Worst) K&N 96.80%
FLOW RESTRICTION in inches of water
Best) K&N 4.54
Worst) AC Delco 6.23
So, afterall it is the most efficient filter being most restrictive too. So it seems just a trade off than better technology.

Originally Posted by Gurkha

I see a defensive ( K&N ) as well as aggresive ( towards me ) posturing being taken by you, not necessary, as all I am showing is the facts

That is very unfortunate. Since you started the thread and also stated facts about AMG/Brabus, F1, NASCAR and Slick 50, please be kind enough to answer the questions too.

[Gurkha]

Originally Posted by WhiteKnight

I just said everyone race to WIN. I am not sure how you got the idea of "Blowing a million dollar engine purposely".

By letting in more dust you will blow the engine.



I am not an expert in racing. My original question was whether AMG/Brabus use any of the other filters mentioned in the study you quoted? Would you please answer?
If NONE are used by them, for a common man like me, you singling out K&N not being used by AMG doesn't make any sence.

They don't use K&N for sure.

If you read the study you quoted carefully, you would see that the study as such is not biased

FILTER % EFFICIENCY
Best) AC Delco OE 99.93%
Worst) K&N 96.80%
FLOW RESTRICTION in inches of water
Best) K&N 4.54
Worst) AC Delco 6.23
So, afterall it is the most efficient filter being most restrictive too. So it seems just a trade off than better technology.

I would take a bit restriction and make up my horsepower elsewhere rather than open up the gates to let dust in.


That is very unfortunate. Since you started the thread and also stated facts about AMG/Brabus, F1, NASCAR and Slick 50, please be kind enough to answer the questions too.

Hope I have answered to your satisfaction.

[sage]

maybe they didn't oil the K&N

[ScarySkulls]

Ahhh....Good Point!
I heard it many many times that K&N conducts the flow tests on dry filters.
No oil = less restriction and that's the secret behind those high CFM numbers K&N get in their tests.

Which, come to think of it is hilarious. More like saying, look dude, my fuel pump can pump 30 litres in a minute. what good will that be when all you need is a Litre every 10kms or so?

[tsk1979]

I also see K&N themselves saying "Use a shroud when dusty".
I havent seen a single car with K&N with a shroud fitted. And if Delhi is not dusty currently, I do not know what is dusty.

[amit_mechengg]

now thats a story for me. i was wondering why the butterfly valve in my throttle body gets clogged even when i have a k&N which is supposed to have best filtering characteristics.

i couldnt believe the service person saying that he had to clean the throttle body as it was clogged. he also said there was sticky substance. god knows what was that

[PAVAN KADAM]

One more fight going on here.

We go by brand and its imaging for all its worth

I've been using a K&N since 6 yrs, never ever have i encountered any problem as mentioned above on both cars one Carb and the othre Mpfi.

I use it in the stock filter shroud and every year i clean and oil the filter.

That report in the thread starter was a review done in September 2004. Guys the world is changed so much after that.

4 years, thats helluva lot time for k&N to have upgraded their product from what it was.

The other flters mentioned blocks so much of dust -GOOD, it as well blocks air intake. what about that?

[condor]

@Pavan, after the successful usage in the cars, have you tried at least a stock replacement filter in the truck ? What are the results ?

Or, if you haven't, then why ?

Also, do you find any difference in the filters - atleast the look & feel of the materials used, between the filters you purchased earlier & what's available now ?

[tsk1979]

PAVAN KADAM, you are in bangalore which does not have much dust. In a Delhi like environment where may is the month of dust storms running K&N is not a very good idea.
Moreover, no need to compare brands here, K&N themselves say that in dusty environments its recommended that a shroud be used.
You can find this information on their website.
Any filter which allows more air in will also allow more dust in. Its plain physics. Infact if you don't put in any filter, it will give you the best performance. But the question is "At what cost"

[PAVAN KADAM]

Originally Posted by condor

@Pavan, after the successful usage in the cars, have you tried at least a stock replacement filter in the truck ? What are the results ?

Or, if you haven't, then why ?

Also, do you find any difference in the filters - atleast the look & feel of the materials used, between the filters you purchased earlier & what's available now ?

Truck ?

I dont own any truck.

About using stock replacement filter on my car, yes i've found the car to lose some power with the stock filter.

I've been using a purolator air filter on my M-800 since 1999 till 2003, and after i got my k&N on it(inside the stock shroud) i found a lot of difference in car's performance.Similar with the Matiz also.

I've also been using the purolator filter for a few days during the K&N filter cleaning. and found the loss of power and the cars ability to breathe free.

Stock air filters in the shroud are recommended and the same setup is there in my Safari, till the similar K&N filter is avilable.

Mods,

This thread started with a comparision on airfilters.

I am only quoting my experiences on the topic.If its wrong kindly close this thread.

I am not pushing any brand here.

My K&N goes right into the stock shroud on the Carb.

Every user has to be knowledgeable when using a certain product.I know the product i've purchased well and using it as per their terms and maintainence standards, and i am damn happy with it.