[kvothe_rules]

Originally Posted by VinsWagen

VW/Skoda DSGs deserve another badge of honor in Team-BHP, say, by marking it specifically as a notable exclusion to the 'keep-your-car-for-10-years' guideline from GTO's insightful and helpful "ARTICLE: YOUR 5 year old car : Keep, Upgrade or Swap?"

You are right! I think this should be done only with their DSG cars. My manual Jetta has been fit as a fiddle with only issues being normal wear and tear. It will last 10+ years without any issues. I still can't settle on a car to replace it. Nearest replacement is at least 50-60 lakhs!

[m8002?]

It has been known for ages that these give up the ghost one fine morning. What is surprising is that its been in the market for 10+ years and still not reliable.

Are these issues specific to the DCT from VAG? How is the reliability of the DCT in cars from Hyundai and Fiat?

[vinaydatla]

Originally Posted by roadrunner_nv

If the guys at Škoda are reading this, please know that the propensity to sell the products to existing customers is high is you offer a good experience. This is not rocket science. You also got to price your own products competitively and offer reasonable prices during exchange.

I evaluated my Rapid at Cars24 and they offered me 8.5L. When the guys at Škoda examined my Rapid, the came to me with a final quote of 3.5 L + 10K as exchange bonus. Two instances of failed injector on the highway with my family onboard were enough for me to sell the car. It is in such instances that one feels that overpriced, underpowered, low feature list cars BUT reliable ones make a lot of sense. Skoda should go to manufacturers like Toyota, Hyundai to know what this means.

I would have been a repeat customer because I can't live with the thought of buying few brands with high market share in India. Skoda folks know the issues with their cars so they price them very low during evaluations. Sudden failures of equipment with no warning is scary especially during long and night drives. Fun to drive factor was on top of my requirements so far but I will go with reliability now.

Originally Posted by Guna

Skoda should simply provide lifetime warranty on the DSG gear boxes including the ones which are already running

A deaf ear for pre 2016 owners is the norm now. Vehicles sold after 2016 have options for extended warranty but old customers are their own expense.

Originally Posted by Sumer

I feel saddened by what the OP is going through. Reinforces the fact once again in my head that either a good old manual or a TC for me. I don't want blistering quick DSG shifts at the cost of reliability and the fear of a sudden breakdown

Can't go with a manual as we have tasted the convenience of automatic transmissions. I will probably look for torque converters only going forward.

Originally Posted by audioholic

why arent they preparing their service technicians to be able to repair the mechatronics unit?

I don't know about service technicians but I have seen a lot of service advisors leaving the VAG dealerships. Every time I visit the dealership, there is a new SA and the previous one has moved on to another brand. One such SA mentioned that Hyundai is the best in terms of customer service and SA satisfaction.

Originally Posted by ScorpWarp

I wish Skoda shows similar commitment to customers.

Even I was of the opinion that things were better after Zac and team took over.

Originally Posted by jayeshdamle

I hope Zac interferes and you get it replaces for free. Do update us on the outcome.

After the discussions with dealerships have failed, I have written a long email to Zac before even starting this thread here. He has passed on the email to Skoda India customer care who after a few days of calls and emails have written an email that they will not be able to provide any discount or goodwill warranty and passed on the buck to dealership. The CRM team at the dealership replied that they won't be able to offer any discount as well and asked for approval for full payment.

Originally Posted by Tuborog

I totally empathize with OP. Reliability trumps everything, specially if one travels a lot on highways!
As most of the members are advising, ditch it and get a Honda/Toyota. At least you will not compromise on safety and will get most of the modern age features.

I am in a continuous state of anxiety when driving on highways. Planning to move to reliable brands. I am unable to find any good options for diesel automatics in 20-30L segment except for XUV 700 and Tucson.

Originally Posted by sandeep.menon

Amazing point, deserves to be amplified.

True - Reliability and Accountability can command a premium.

I am ready to pay more for reliability and peace of mind. We can visit service center for shorter intervals like 5000 or 7500 or 10000 kms for fuss free owner ship but not with so many unplanned visits along with a 15000 kms service interval.

Originally Posted by vishy76

Because their mechanics are rigid and lazy. That's the simple conclusion I have derived after having my car serviced (and my wallet ripped) at the ASC for 6 years.

I feel they are understaffed and there are less tenured folks at these dealerships.

Originally Posted by Mickey1986

Strongly contemplating Kushaq 1.5 DSG as at this time, this is only one I like. But coming back to the problems of DSG - with 6 year warranty and then yearly maintenance package

You can have some peace of mind until the warranty expires but please ensure that you have good roadside assistance coverage both from the brand and the insurance company as we never know when you may have to avail the services.

Originally Posted by pta320

Manual transmission clutches do fail but they start giving warning signs much earlier and are relatively inexpensive to fix. That gives you ample time to fix it before you are left stranded.

I would rather appreciate Toyota for bringing in cutting edge hybrid cars that save fuel and environment and keep on continuously innovating that tech yet keeping the reliability intact. VW, not so much.

Exactly my point, there should be some warning for critical parts. I have read somewhere that Toyota only has tech that is tried and tested resulting in delay in implementing latest tech in new products.

Originally Posted by RGK

Maybe. Ford's exit was definitely not due to poor service. They had an excellent service setup and escalation platform.

I agree. Ford had very good service and I had very good experience with my Ford Figo 1.4 D for 8 years and 1L plus kms.

Originally Posted by praveen789

Off topic: I got a minor shock looking at the quotation. Can't they format it properly to put proper spaces between the totals! I thought the gross total was 69,362.8519,107.15. Ignoring the first period that is 69362 crores

@Vinay - I think it is better to do it from the service center. I believe they give a 2 year warranty of all original spares and that gives some piece of mind.

They are least bothered at such things. I will go ahead with the service center only.

Originally Posted by DeepCarTalk

I have seen reduce-reuse-recycle sign at my local VW workshop.

You never know, they may be reusing our parts. I observe that some dealers give away the old part but some dealers don't in Skoda/VW. In Ford, they used to even give the replaced bulbs also back to me.

Originally Posted by 84.monsoon

This also means that Toyota has to stay away from some technologies that may be truly innovative and can work wonders under certain conditions, but not generalisable to the rest of the world markets. One sees Toyota and Honda sticking on to tried and tested designs such a torque-converters and CVTs, just for this reason.

As I mentioned above, fancy tech vs reliability - I may probably go for reliability. Sadly, Toyota/Honda doesn't have a proper cross over in 20-30L space I am looking for.

Originally Posted by kvothe_rules

You are right! I think this should be done only with their DSG cars. My manual Jetta has been fit as a fiddle with only issues being normal wear and tear. It will last 10+ years without any issues. I still can't settle on a car to replace it. Nearest replacement is at least 50-60 lakhs!

I understand from folks at VW, that the 2015 or later Jettas are good to own and maintain. Except for the costly multi-link suspension costing six figures, these vehicles are reliable and fuss free.

Originally Posted by m8002?

It has been known for ages that these give up the ghost one fine morning. What is surprising is that its been in the market for 10+ years and still not reliable.

Are these issues specific to the DCT from VAG? How is the reliability of the DCT in cars from Hyundai and Fiat?

I have a friend who owns a Hyundai Venue DCT. He has faced transmission heating issues a few times in bumper to bumper traffic conditions of Hyderabad. After a few instances, he started using the DCT as a manual playing around with N and D whenever he encounters traffic. His parents are worried to use the car due to this and they have purchased a S-Cross 4 speed AT for their use.

Kia service technicians say that they don't have transmission heating issues in their Sonet/Seltos as they have fixed them with a software update. I am not sure if this is true.

[audioholic]

Originally Posted by vinaydatla

I don't know about service technicians but I have seen a lot of service advisors leaving the VAG dealerships.

Originally Posted by androdev

It's not easy to hire, train and retain qualified technicians at scale and across geographies. . Businesses don't necessarily hate customers - it's a nightmare to hire/train/retain skilled labour.

The problem is that we in India have no concept of consumer protection and most executives lack empathy.

Forget the staffing part. Thats present across manufacturers and most of the technicians keep jumping ship even in independent garages. There is always a desire for these trained guys to make some extra money by working independently or opening up their own setup. The question is does VW/Skoda in India even have instructions on repairing DSG? If there is a well written rule book, even a noob can follow the instructions and get things going. That is even better in this context compared letting a mechanic use his experienced brain and deviate from procedures.

Right now, I can see that as per the rulebook, DSG error = Replace mechatronics unit in most of the cases. What I want to know is has the company ever elaborated this, with provision of child parts and advanced repair instructions. Without this, even no matter how experienced the mechanic at the ASC is, they would not be able to perform repairs. Staff retention is a problem we need to discuss later if the instructions are in place but no one wants to do the actual job.

Originally Posted by Rajiv Krishnan

My reasoning is that, if the full DSG unit actually costs 4 lakhs, mechanics might be too scared to even touch it in case they get something wrong and break it, in which case they would have to compensate the customer out of their own pocket. .

This is a valid point. Me and Paragsachania had this experience with one of his neighbours Celerio where the AMT box had an oil leak. Even though there were child parts which were ordered and replaced, somehow the AMT was never able to be brought back to life and finally the whole unit had to be replaced. I cant put the blame completely on the ASC since we had a very detailed round of discussions, but yes an issue that was perceived to be small ended up with a much bigger end.

Originally Posted by 84.monsoon

I believe the whole situation arises due to the design philosophy of the Germans. When designing subsystems such as the DSG transmission, it is always a trade off between performance, reliability, efficiency and cost.

The best way to address this dilemma might be to equip third parties, provide the training and parts required for repairing DSG transmission, so that the company does not directly need to get involved and put its reputation on the line in terms of the repair aspect of this gearboxes. The whole thing can be kept at arm's length, while still allowing the right to repair and improving perception about the expense of long-term maintenance and repair of the DSG boxes.

Agreed with your observations since I am also a part of this German automotive development scene and the mindset is not exactly to design a solution that would work everywhere from the Nordic countries till the Sahara desert. On the other hand, they have their DSGs working fine in Europe where I have seen many cars with 2-3L kms on the Odo being used as taxis with perfect transmissions without failure. Thats because for every one gearshift the DSG does in Germany, I am sure it would have to do five in India due to our conditions.

But speaking of third party repair, this is again a huge question mark. If their own ASC cant fix it, why not at least make child parts available and some technical documentation so that some independent garage could do a good job using the right tools and replacement parts. I am completely sold on the Kushaq/Slavia 1.5L DSG, but except for the dilemma with DSG. Of course I would be mentally prepared for something like this to happen, but cars in our house are shared between me and parents and I do not want them to get stranded in some place they would travel to in the car and then give me an earful over the phone. This is one of the main reasons we brought the Crysta, even though there could have been better places to plonk the same amount of money in. Big problem for me at the moment.

[anjan_c2007]

Very shameful to read about Skoda's ASC and the company's customer care department's behaviour. If the ASC is a villian, the company can be labelled as a BOSS of the villain. Its like in the 1980's we had Shakti Kapoor (ASC takes his role) as a frontline villain and Kadar Khan as one behind the scenes to guide (company at Ranjangaon) the former. (discussing the film roles of the duo here only. In real life they are/ were better human beings).

They quote rules without any goodwill that appear to be influencing their decisions. The Road Side Assistance (RSA) plan expired a week ago as you say @vinaydatla and they never reminded you for a renewal.

Skodas (incl Rapid) "rapid"ly depreciate in value in the used car market. And finding buyers for second hand Skodas is a tough job. Its simply because the company and the dealers have failed to behave properly with its customers mainly in the after-sales part. And there is no change even after two decades since their first Octavia was launched in India in 2002. Hence, the CEO's may say about three to five new car launches per year and about taking the company to the top in India but their negative attitude and money minting games are bound to lead them nowhere. After the launch of the much hyped Kushaq, we soon had a thread discussing Kushaq breakdowns on teambhp where one by one the complaints and sympathies poured in.

A look at this link will illustrate how much resale values the Rapids command. For every one year that goes by the values depreciate even more.

https://www.carwale.com/used/skoda-r...=-1&so=-1&pn=1

Hence will spending about Rs 1 L on the DSG repairs/ replacement of a seven year old car be worth it ?

But for the safe body shell Skodas offer with the solid feel, plush interiors and the upmarket brand image are these cars really VFM for owners ? At the end of the day I would only vouch for the safety this brand offers vis a vis the competition. The Fabia was a good car for its class, but the Shakti Kapoor- Kadar Khan duo have enacted their roles very well to consign this car into history.

We talk about the very unsafe cars from the Far East that are made in India. But as customers most of the times VFM and ASC behaviour prompt them to make a beeline for these even if the safety is suspect. We hence find most of these cars in the list of Top 20 best sellers as a rule since many years. And Skodas remain reporting their monthly sales in three figures, now having reached four figures due to the initial hype generated by the Kushaq. Hopefully, Skoda will soon return back to its reserved territory reporting three figure sales every month quite soon.

[Raghu M]

Oh God, not again. I don't know how many of these Skoda's keep failing and people keep buying. Please try to push for goodwill warranty. That's what we can do for owning the so called premium brands (there is nothing premium about them at all though). Apart from the hype some have created around owing these cars, if you get stranded somewhere with the car not budging, I don't see what's premium about it. Give me a car that has average interiors but a gem of an engine and give me a Skoda with great interiors but with a DSG, I'd prefer the former any day!

[Kosfactor]

Originally Posted by Raghu M

Apart from the hype some have created around owing these cars, if you get stranded somewhere with the car not budging, I don't see what's premium about it. Give me a car that has average interiors but a gem of an engine and give me a Skoda with great interiors but with a DSG, I'd prefer the former any day!

These premium cars are made for a different part of the planet, it's us customers who are using them improperly!

As with ANY German / Euro brand ownership, the best way to do it is to buy the vehicle new and use it for 3 years until they release a new model, now sell it off and buy another German car and ... repeat.

This above mentioned lifecycle is fantastic, you pay next to nothing for maintenance apart from a broken windshield or cracked alloys etc. You get to enjoy the best performance, style and luxury that these brands promise us.

[pta320]

Originally Posted by Kosfactor

These premium cars are made for a different part of the planet, it's us customers who are using them improperly!

As with ANY German / Euro brand ownership, the best way to do it is to buy the vehicle new and use it for 3 years until they release a new model, now sell it off and buy another German car and ... repeat.

This above mentioned lifecycle is fantastic, you pay next to nothing for maintenance apart from a broken windshield or cracked alloys etc. You get to enjoy the best performance, style and luxury that these brands promise us.

Even 3 years is far fetched for these overly complicated cars. Just a quick Google search shows 1 month old German car leaving someone stranded in the road. It's a combination of trash quality control + complex design prone to fail.

Now I am not denying there are lemons (even Toyota has some), but here it's kind of a norm especially with VAG cars. In comparison BMW has far better 3 year survival rate.

Not worth spending that much for a 3 year of fun unless you have your own racing track and make like a million bucks a month. Then you don't have to worry about being stranded.

[shinuak]

Originally Posted by audioholic

Now in spite of this being obvious, why arent they preparing their service technicians to be able to repair the mechatronics unit? Across the world, independent mechanics have done this successfully.

I agree and as a matter of fact was thinking in the same lines but with slightly different approach. As on date they can think of partly adopting the way in which Apple works its phones issues under warranty in India. They take in the phone, assess the issue and gives a refurbished/nearly new phone back when it is under warranty, free of cost. But if it is out of warranty they charge based on the part which failed but not the entire cost of the phone.

So trying to draw an analogy, if VAG does not have the required expertise at each service center level to fix DQ200 issues, they can give checklist/steps to the ASS to assess what is the root cause of the failure, charge for the cost to repair that specific child component failure and provide a factory refurbished replacement unit, while they send the unit in parallel to Skoda centralized repair/manufacturing unit to refurbish it back to nearly new condition which can later be sent back to ASS based on the need. Probably they can fix a timeline based on the life of gearbox say like this will be done up to 10 years from the initial purchase, to avoid misuse. This, I feel, will definitely build customer confidence instead of random promises on social media and making customer run behind ASS for goodwill etc.

[Raghu M]

Originally Posted by Kosfactor

These premium cars are made for a different part of the planet, it's us customers who are using them improperly!

As with ANY German / Euro brand ownership, the best way to do it is to buy the vehicle new and use it for 3 years until they release a new model, now sell it off and buy another German car and ... repeat.

This above mentioned lifecycle is fantastic, you pay next to nothing for maintenance apart from a broken windshield or cracked alloys etc. You get to enjoy the best performance, style and luxury that these brands promise us.

Oh, that's too much for owning a car. What about the horrible depreciation these cars face after 3 years? I have seen most cars (on the forum too) throwing tantrums in the first 6 months of ownership. It's hard to say they are reliable, I think someone needs to be in luck to get a good running VAG. May be an overstatement, but that's how things are looking (given the issues with the new Kushaq).

[Varun_HexaGuy]

Originally Posted by pta320

For someone like me who use car for long haul journeys through deserted roads and often through forests during night time, I wouldn't touch a car with a 10 foot pole which has a weak transmission that fails without much warning no matter how good you take care of it. Manual transmission clutches do fail but they start giving warning signs much earlier and are relatively inexpensive to fix. That gives you ample time to fix it before you are left stranded.

For a weekend toy, sure go ahead, buy a DSG, baby it ... For a daily driver, keep something else.

I don't know why a new thread on the forum w.r.t DSGs always ends up becoming a rant place. It's not like the people were forced to buy the DSGs blindfolded. People were well aware of the issues/trade offs to be made to buy a particular car.

Everyone here knew how lax VW could get incase something doesn't go as expected. Everyone here knew that we people in India are not blessed with a strong consumer forum. Yet, we end up buying a car which we know would run into these issues one fine day in the ownership.

What do you do when such a thing happens? Haggle for a goodwill or some part discount, get the part replaced and move on. Treat it as a running repair. Clutch packs in the DQ200 is a wear and tear item. Replacement is slightly on the expensive side. It's not like DSGs give up one fine morning. Mechatronics, however, is a bit where you need luck. The failure rate has come down drastically as compared to before (thanks to the oil switch made by VW many years ago for the mechatronics). But it's not zero yet. Company could be selling "defective" gearboxes. We as customers always have the choice. We chose to buy. Keeping all of this in mind. So continue to live with your choices. Why blame anybody else for the choices you've made?

Agreed it's not the simplest of cars mechanically. But people have bought these cars for what they've offered. Also, people having a different aptitude or approach for these cars can manage to run them. It's not going to be as simple as a walk in the park. But it's not something difficult that people make it to be. Having that attitude and the risk appetite is important.

Also, a car is meant to be used. It is going to deteriorate no matter if you use it daily or once in a month. Rather use it to the fullest and enjoy while it lasts.

[Turbanator]

Originally Posted by Varun_HexaGuy

I don't know why a new thread on the forum w.r.t DSGs always ends up becoming a rant place.

I will support such threads, do you think anyone who has previously bought a Skoda was aware of this issue? I bet, even today, despite so many threads, if you ask any new buyer at a Skoda showroom, chances are 90% of them won't even be aware.

Thanks to forums like ours, such issues are escalated and on many times, manufacturers are forced to take a corrective issue. If VW has honoured or extended warranties overseas, just because our laws doesn't support anything, VW cannot absolve themselves from a known issue.

Let there be 100 threads of everyone who has to pay such monies to VW and hope these companies see everyday something like this and new buyers ask them Questions. Of course, people who are Ok with such failures and accept these policies from a manufacturer are free. I just hope these guys don't have to come back here when they themselves are in problem for this or any other reasons with VW.

[Varun_HexaGuy]

Originally Posted by Turbanator

I will support such threads, do you think anyone who has previously bought a Skoda was aware of this issue? I bet, even today, despite so many threads, if you ask any new buyer at a Skoda showroom, chances are 90% of them won't even be aware.

Thanks to forums like ours, such issues are escalated and on many times, manufacturers are forced to take a corrective issue. If VW has honoured or extended warranties overseas, just because our laws doesn't support anything, VW cannot absolve themselves from a known issue.

Let there be 100 threads of everyone who has to pay such monies to VW and hope these companies see everyday something like this and new buyers ask them Questions. Of course, people who are Ok with such failures and accept these policies from a manufacturer are free. I just hope these guys don't have to come back here when they themselves are in problem for this or any other reasons with VW.

Only if (and that's a big if at that) people on a relatively larger scale could come together, act on it and pressurise the companies to take some big steps towards the resolution.

Our threads on the forum have only been piling up, we venting it out but SAVWIPL doing nothing. Guess, they've grown thick skinned or they've given up on their brand image altogether and we end up as the laughing stock. Even incase of this very thread, I don't quite think it has been of any significant help to the OP himself. Not only for Skoda/VW, this stands true for a lot of other brands as well. Tata and Mahindra for instance (and I've banged my head against the wall for nothing when I burnt hands). They've been making cars for well over 20-years, yet with the kind of consistency they roll out cars in today's date and age is laughable.

On another completely unrelated note, companies don't give a damn about us customers. We as customers are expected to be treated in a certain way when things go awry, but sadly neither the company themselves or even the authorised dealers treat us the way we are expected to be treated in a certain cases. The day when a majority of us turn intolerant towards things like these, things would change for themselves. Until then, it's only a select few venting it out on threads like these that come up on the hot threads section every once in a while.

[padmrajravi]

Originally Posted by Varun_HexaGuy

. Even incase of this very thread, I don't quite think it has been of any significant help to the OP himself. Not only for Skoda/VW, this stands true for a lot of other brands as well. Tata and Mahindra for instance (and I've banged my head against the wall for nothing when I burnt hands). .

Agree that this thread has not been much help to OP in terms of eliciting a response from Skoda. I am still hoping that this thread will stay in the hot thread section for some more time and OP will get a helpful response eventually.

But I have seen Tata, M&M and Suzuki take actions based on forum feedback. I haven't seen Hyundai and Toyota taking actions based on forum feedback recently. I think I am close to adding Skoda/VW in this list too.

But then unlike Skoda, Hyundai and Toyota comes with a minimum quality and has a lower probability of breaking down. That means Skoda/VW should be strictly out of consideration list for BHPians. They are unreliable and when you run into issues, they don't care even if you try everything possible in your might. That's a dangerous combination, and the logical thing for all of us is to take them out of our consideration set.

We live in a country with ineffective consumer laws. So mediums like this are our only option when we get unfairly treated. If this thread does not end with a favorable outcome, none in my friends or family circle is ever touching a Skoda/VW again.

[speedracer05]

Originally Posted by vinaydatla

The Skoda corporate team is not ready to offer any discounts or goodwill warranty for the mechatronics failure. They are ready to give this in writing.

I wonder if Jack Hollis and other at Skoda are aware of this thread and the traction it is getting.