[shivs2003]

Hi All,

I purchased a 2021 Fortuner 4x4 AT in the month of March. Most of the 2nd Lockdown (April 21 to June 21), vehicle was unused.

In the last 4 months, the vehicle has gone to the service center 7 times, 6 of which have been for only 1 issue, the DPF. Vehicle has run 11K KM as on date.

The Problem:

The DPF fills up in the exponential pattern. Details Below:

On the 29th of Sep (9.30 PM), I took a drive to the airport, the odo was at 11,057 KMs, the DPF was at the lowest levels.

On 1st of Oct (6.35 AM), I was about to depart on a trip to Uttrakhand, the odo was at 11,158, but the DPF was full. Engine Warning lights all over the dash and the message on the screen was "Check Engine, Visit your Dealer".

In a span of 36 hrs and 101 KM, the DPF was full.

Now, I could not postpone my trip at the last minute, so, we took off for the 250 KM drive.

The car was jerking at every gear change, the engine was at far higher RPMs and 6th gear was not engaging.

We were able to coordinate with a dealer in Dehradun and visit them to clear the DPF.

As per them the following information was derived:

1. This is a BIG issue with all Toyota cars that have DPFs.
2. DPF issues damage diesel fuel injectors.
3. On that very day (the 1st of Oct), they had already dealt with 5 vehicles (before 12 noon) regarding DPF cleaning.
4. Toyota HO is dealing with issue, most likely a recall with be conducted.


Back In Delhi NCR:
The ASC folks have no concrete answer as to how to sort out the problem. Brief of the entire matter/situation below with relevant information:

1. The vehicle is used in Delhi-NCR, 20-30% city roads, rest highways (most major roads between Delhi/Gurgaon/Faridabad are highways.

2. The vehicle is chauffeur driven.

3. The vehicle has both Manual & Auto DPF cleaning. Adblue has been topped up at all times.

4. The ASC (Faridabad) claims this issue is normal/not the vehicles fault.

5. Their recommendations are:
a. Use only BS6 fuel. (This seems absurd, as the vehicle was designed to use both BS4 & BS6 fuel)
b. Drive the vehicle above 100 kmph. (Again, rather absurd, almost all roads inside the city have a speed limit of 50/60 kmph and the highways are 80 kmph). Even if I drove at 100 kmph, the 6th gear would keep the RPMs at a mere 1200.
c. Manually clean the DPF frequently. (This is a tricky issue, the manual cleaning doesnt always work. When the DPF levels are low, it wont engage the cleaning function, by the times the levels are higher, its too late to do anything, the car enters "creep home" mode.)

I will be sending Toyota a very stern letter asking for a solution, will keep folks in the forum updated.

Looking at the above information, I request all new Toyota vehicle owners who have DPFs to be extremely cautious.

[shancz]

Strange how fast it filled up.
Check out this thread dedicated to this issue by LONG_TOURER (DPF issues in BS6-compliant cars at high altitude places like Ladakh, Zanskar and Spiti)
Will request to merge.

[Axe77]

This is truly regrettable and inconvenient. So even the poster boy of reliability - Toyota - is not immune from these DPF related issues.

Its becoming difficult to figure what sort of vehicle to buy if you’re in the market anytime in the next couple of years.

Diesel: All sorts of DPF related issues.
Petrol: Current cars are Ethanol 10 compliant. E20 may well become the norm very soon. Not to mention 2023 will see new emission norms kicking in. If you want a turbo petrol for performance, expect to have to live with plummeting FE anytime you floor the throttle, unlike powerful diesels which still give palatable economy figures regardless of how you drive. All of this in the face of spiralling fuel prices.
Hybrids: Insanely taxed, barely any options anyway and the E10 / E20 remains here too I suppose.
EVs: Ideally the market is still a few years away from truly maturing and stabilising. Offerings are few and either at the base end of the market (14 - 25 lakh) or in the 1 crore plus super luxury segment.

Thank god for bicycles I guess!! There’s at least one passion one can still pursue without these hassles.

[padmrajravi]

That's a bummer. I was hoping that Toyota would have solved the DPF issues by now. This is a repeat of what other countries have experienced with Toyota DPF equipped diesels. Excessive regeneration is why there is a class action suit against Toyota in Australia. As per Toyota's statement, this was supposed to be fixed in the new engine in Fortuner and Hilix through changes in injector design and software fixes.

[Hayek]

Am surprised this is happening to a car with reasonable highway usage. I am very clear that buying a BS6 diesel car for my kind of usage (mainly in Bombay - average speed 20-30 kmph when times are good) is insanity. And hence ruled out all diesel options for the future. But I would have hoped that reasonable highway use would solve that problem. Unless your highway use around Delhi is in peak hour bumper to bumper traffic - which is urban use, not highway use.

I also worry whether fuel adulteration has increased - with rising petrol and diesel prices, the incentive to adulterate petrol with naphtha or diesel with kerosene would have increased materially. Could also be a potential cause of this problem.

Anyway best of luck and do keep us posted.

[DrANTO]

I have bought my Innova Crysta 2.4 Automatic in February 2021- My vehicle has already covered 27000km in last 7 months. I haven’t experienced any problem with DPF regeneration so far. My usage is 70% highway and 30% city ( my daily commute is 130 km)


So this problem is either limited to 2.8 Diesel engine as 2.4L engine in Crysta is doing okay. I know 2 more Crysta owners with their ODO at 16k and 19k - non-issues so far.( I don’t know whether DPF is same for both 2.4 and 2.8). After reading your thread, I called my friend who works at Nippon Toyota ( Kerala’s largest dealer) and he said this issue is seen in some cars which stands idle for some weeks or months. Also he mentioned that vehicles with DPF are very sensitive to fuel quality (At the time of first service, workshop manager has advised me to fill diesel from Reliance fuel station only as the quality of diesel is better compared to IOC pumps. I don’t know how much of it is true)


Let us see how Toyota addresses the problem.

[CalmConquests]

As someone who owns 2021 Toyota Fortuner 4x4 AT himself, this is quite concerning. My particular car is about 2 months old & has run about 2,700kms.

I always fuel up at a COCO BPCL bunk.

The car gets used twice a week at-least. The commute is about 30kms, one-way, to work. So the number of times the car goes for a spin thats less than 9-10kms is very rare.

In my personal experience thus far, the car immediately starts the Regen Process once 3 bars on the display (out of a total 7 or 8 i think) get filled. This happens fairly often (every 150-200kms) in the city. When I'm on the highway doing a steady 90kmph to 100kmph, the regen happens around every 200-250 kms.

When the car went for its very first service at 1400kms ( i was travelling & hence was about 400 kms late), they topped up the ad-blue by about 1.5Litres.

Looking at how OP's DPF suddenly fills up, i wonder if there is something wrong with fuel or the fueling/ignition system itself here. Because the DPF going from low to full in 100kms is quite odd.

Ive spoken to a few friends who have BS6 fortuners & innovas. Strangely none of them have any issues. However, I will check with my trusted SA from the toyota dealership here & post again with an update.

[abhishek46]

Originally Posted by CalmConquests

In my personal experience thus far, the car immediately starts the Regen Process once 3 bars on the display (out of a total 7 or 8 i think) get filled. This happens fairly often (every 150-200kms) in the city. When I'm on the highway doing a steady 90kmph to 100kmph, the regen happens around every 200-250 kms.

When the car went for its very first service at 1400kms ( i was travelling & hence was about 400 kms late), they topped up the ad-blue by about 1.5Litres.

How do you come to know about this regen process kicking in?
Is there any indicator etc.?

I am aware of self regeneration process, while vehicle is parked.
Does this regen happen on the move?

[CalmConquests]

Originally Posted by abhishek46

Is there any indicator etc.?

Does this regen happen on the move?

Absolutely. There will be a message on the MID in your instrument cluster which reads " DPF Regeneration in progress" (although the exact wording on screen might be a little different). You cant miss it because message stays on the MID unless you specifically hit the "Back Arrow" button on the steering wheel.

This happens automatically while the car is on the move. If you're on the highway, you dont notice any change. However if you are in the city while this happens, you will see the car at a slightly raised idling RPM every time you shift to "N" or "P" at a red light. Either which way, you can keep driving.

If I have just reached my destination & I don't have the time to wait in my car for the time it takes to complete the regeneration process, I turn it off. When I start my car again next time, the car again restarts the regeneration-process & the message appears again.

One of the things i do to quicken this process if I'm close to my destination & this message appears is, i shift the gear lever to the manual mode & use the paddles to drive in a lower gear to keep my rpms above 1500.

Shifting to manual mode & keeping the rpms above 1500 definitely quickens the process & you should be done within 4-5kms.

This message on the MID automatically disappears once the regeneration process in complete.

[starter]

Check out this video..

https://youtu.be/_hjS2aWGiTI

The youtuber has got a manual fortuner and his vehicle did encounter DPF issues at the mighty chang-la.

[GTO]

Originally Posted by Hayek

I am very clear that buying a BS6 diesel car for my kind of usage (mainly in Bombay - average speed 20-30 kmph when times are good) is insanity. And hence ruled out all diesel options for the future.

DPF issues are yet another blow to diesel engines. Diesels have really taken body blows in the last 5 years = VW emissions fraud, Delhi-NCR's 10 year cap, major price hikes because of BS6, turbo-petrols offering comparable torque, manufacturers abandoning them (including Maruti & Volvo), governments frowning on diesels...the list goes on. The reputation of a diesel engine is finished. IMHO, we have reached "peak diesel" and going forward, there is not going to be any R&D or new developments in them (other than additional hardware for evolving emission norms). That's sad, because diesels make a lot of sense for many vehicle categories (UVs, offroaders) and offer unmatched fuel economy for those with heavy usage. I love my big turbo-diesels as much as I love turbo-petrols.

Back to the topic, sad to see Toyota also struggle with DPF issues. But unlike Ford, Toyota will solve it. They don't take shortcuts like Ford. Eager to see how the OP's problem gets resolved.

[condor]

Originally Posted by shivs2003

Even if I drove at 100 kmph, the 6th gear would keep the RPMs at a mere 1200.

Question to Fortuner owners:

Isnt 1200 rpm for 100kph LOW ?

@Shivs, since you can also do manual, can you do this 100kph in 5th so the RPM is higher ?

[Axe77]

Originally Posted by GTO

DPF issues are yet another blow to diesel engines. Diesels have really taken body blows in the last 5 years
.
.
That's sad, because diesels make a lot of sense for many vehicle categories (UVs, offroaders)

This last bit is specially unfortunate because if you want to use your big capable UV (think Thar, Fortuner, Isuzu etc) to travel to high altitude locations like Ladakh, DPF is going to queer the pitch further and even impact performance per se. I know a petrol version of many such hard core SUVs is possible (like Thar / Fortuner etc) but better FE can be critical even for maximising tank range when going off the beaten path to remote places where fuel is not easily available - not just for cost saving alone.

[padmrajravi]

Some drivers in the Australia Fortuner forum seem to have faced OP's problem.

https://www.fortunerforum.com.au/for...jector-housing

An interesting quote from that link. It is about the Hilux. I think it uses the same engine as Fortuner.

I have a Hilux and just had my battle with Toyota.

Last year I had DPF swithc installed, new software update and DPF message on dashboard screen. Car has all the latest updates.
I monitor car ECU info via OBD dongle and TorquePro app.
Recently when driving long distances on freeways DPF will usually start regenerating (burn) at approx after 250-290kms driving.
After the burn is completed, if I still continue uninterrupted drive on the freeway (usual speeds of 110km/h), the DPF will start accumulating soot much much quicker, almost 1% for every km driven. So its then showing as full after approx 100-130kms and commences the burn again!

If I then stop or start driving in suburbs (stop, start traffic, up to 70-80km/h) the actual percentages of how much soot is accumulated in DPF start falling. Sometimes from 80% to lets 30% etc. But if I continue driving the DPF burns will happen every 100 or so kms, which is not normal.

I was at the loss why is this happening.

[Bibendum90949]

Originally Posted by GTO

DPF issues are yet another blow to diesel engines. Diesels have really taken body blows in the last 5 years = VW emissions fraud, Delhi-NCR's 10 year cap, major price hikes because of BS6, turbo-petrols offering comparable torque, manufacturers abandoning them (including Maruti & Volvo), governments frowning.

This is sadly the current state of affairs with diesel, not to forget the 30% price hike on diesel. Before all stakeholders paint diesel as the bad boy, the fact is BS6 diesel engines are as cleaner or nearly cleaner as petrol now. I'm reproducing a post by bhpian anb here.

Originally Posted by anb

Emissions levels of a BS6 petrol & diesel differ much. Every litre of fuel you save have more value now as fuel is very costly and diesel engine saves much more fuel than petrol engines as they are more efficient. So diesel still make some sense today.

Originally Posted by GTO

That's sad, because diesels make a lot of sense for many vehicle categories (UVs, offroaders) and offer unmatched fuel economy for those with heavy usage. I love my big turbo-diesels as much as I love turbo-petrols.

Despite all these issues with diesel, I just can't think of a big turbo petrol engine for heavy SUV 's as Thar, Fortuner, Endeavour etc. Single digit throttle sensitive FE is a bane with all turbo petrols - be it the puny 1.0, 1.4 or 2.0 litre engines. The reason why I booked the Thar AT diesel despite the odds stacked against it. Range and FE is a big plus in a heavy SUV. I'll find a way to live with it or look to cross the bridge as I approach it. One has to always be conscious to make the engine run at higher RPMs whenever it's practically possible. This to an extend is counter productive as one eats into the FE

Originally Posted by Bibendum90949

What an irony these technologies are! BS6, DPF etc are in the picture and working overtime to cut down on pollution. To make them work, we've to burn more fuel and pollute more

May be I need to learn how to remove the O2 sensor in DPF and clean it if I'm stranded in remote places. But if the whole system conks up on your face, one will have to face the music. Just cross posting couple of related ones below.

New car buyers are caught between a devil and deep sea. You've DPF issues on one side with diesel and the proposal for 20% mix of Ethanol with petrol in few years down the line. Most policies are brought up without due diligence and it's implications are far damaging for the industry and the general public. That's a different subject altogether.

Originally Posted by Bibendum90949

I don't think one needs to be duly worried with DPF issues. I've booked the same version as well and this thought did cross my mind though diesel has always been my preferred choice. Even when the puny 1.0 litre turbo petrols are guzzling fuel like there's no tomorrow, it's anybody's guess the FE of petrol AT Thars. Another plus which I see with diesel Thar is it has a manual regeneration option for DPF, I would assume one is pretty sorted on that front. There's very less chance of one getting stranded owing to DPF. It's the same chance with many other components that can keep you stranded. A friend who owns a petrol AT Thar just mentioned it's 7-8 kmpl FE in mixed driving conditions. He's a spirited driver though. Such FE is on expected lines for a 2.0 litre turbo petrol, more so when the tune is performance oriented. I'm not quite comfortable with a turbo petrol for such a heavy SUV as Thar and that too a 2.0 litre one. Diesel Thar should give at least 110-130 kms extra range, which is a big plus in off road and on long hauls, both of which I would be doing