[Livnletcarsliv]

Well, I own a Tata Harrier BS4 XZ Orcus White model.
I took delivery of the car on 10 Jan 2020.
Done 32K on the ODO so far.

My situation "why I had to buy a new car".

1. I had a 2010 Hyundai i10 Kappa 1.2 Magna model.
2. Done about 85K on the ODO when I sold in Feb 2021.
3. I love to maintain my car all by myself. So the car was in excellent condition.
4. However, it started showing its age.
5. And I live in Chennai and my hometown is Coimbatore – about 525kms approximately – 1 way – door to door. I do about 3-6 trips yearly to my home town. I also commute locally inside Coimbatore for the days I stay there.
6. I (with my family) also planned to do a lot of holiday/vacation destinations as much as we could. (Unfortunately, this pandemic really tied our thoughts/plans. We did not go anywhere as per our plans except twice inside Tamil Nadu).
7. So I wanted an ENTHUSIAST’s car with these priorities – Looks, comfort, build, safety, space, ride, handling, performance, reliability, high seating position.
8. Mileage, Maintenance Cost, Features were the least priorities.

My buying experience

1. My budget was around 22Lakhs.
2. The options available were Harrier, Compass, Crysta, XUV500, Seltos, Creta, and Hector.
3. Reason for not choosing the following
   1. Crysta – Wanted an enthusiast’s car. Not a people mover. This is the only reason why I did not choose Crysta. Heart over Mind.
   2. XUV500 – End of the lifecycle. I was awaiting the next-gen XUV500 (now called XUV700)
   3. Seltos – I went to the showroom (in Bangalore and Chennai) to check and test drive the car. The customer experience was bad – no proper response from any salesperson. In spite of that (since the need is for me), I checked out the car myself. I evaluated all in and out. Finally, when I closed the doors, I decided immediately this was not the car for me. Not worth 20Lakhs anyway. The doors were vibrating when I closed it. Felt like Maruti is better – At least their cars cheap to buy as well as run.
   4. Creta – Didn’t even check it out. Rejected for the space, size, looks, handling, etc.
   5. Hector – Personally I felt it like a Tab on wheels. “Internet Inside”? Seriously? On a car for an enthusiast like me? And of course, it is actually not a Morris Garage. All the line-up of MG India is nothing but the renamed Chinese models. A Chinese car? – Already we are neck-deep dumped with Chinese products every day and part of our life.
4. Finally I narrowed it down to 2 cars – Compass and Harrier
5. Compass – I had everything I wanted in the Compass except for Space which was a deal-breaker for me (actually for my wife).
6. Harrier – Also had everything.
7. Compass was & is still better in terms of handling, performance, features, build, premium feel, fit, and finish.
8. One thing that surprised me is that the low-speed ride (especially on bad roads) is much better in Harrier than Compass.
9. I wanted to buy only the top-end variant – that has all the bells and whistles as I am not an unnecessary aftermarket guy. So it was the Limited Plus variant in Compass or XZ variant in Harrier.
10. Well one thing I realized is that the post-sales support, customer service, and product reliability are almost the same for both Harrier and Compass. There were a lot of customer complaints and niggles with Compass also. Even now. Period. We do not hear more about Compass because of its low volumes compared to Harrier.
11. And finally the price – Compass (Limited Plus) was almost 6-7 lakhs expensive (after all the discounts) than Harrier. I was ready to stretch my wallet if it was about 2-3 lakhs difference (Even though space is a deal-breaker for my wife. After buying the car I had to convince her which is a long process though). In fact, I was pushing them (Jeep dealer) to give me the final number I asked for.
12. I also had the choice of a demo Compass (2018 model – Limited 4*4 Top end) done about 25K ODO for around 21Lakhs with a full warranty, new tires, new battery, and all the bells and whistles from the company & dealer. So I rejected it for one reason – Demo cars are almost always abused as much as possible.
13. So my question was (obviously) – Is the Compass really worth that extra 6 lakhs? And the answer was definitely NO.
14. So I choose the Harrier finally. End of the buying story.

My views about the car.

1. The product is really good.
2. If not for the Tata logo, anyone could easily mistake it for other reputed brands.
3. Yes, the fit and finish need to improve to great extent – But not a deal-breaker though.
4. Harrier is a totally different product compared to all its competition except Compass. Both Compass and Harrier are driver’s/enthusiast’s cars.
5. My verdict about the product is “Right Product (Harrier) in the Wrong Hands (Tata)”

Now, here goes the list of my bad experience with Tata.

1. The dealership was SRT Tata, Coimbatore.
2. My delivery experience was not good.
   1. The registration process was not smooth due to some dealer issues.
   2. The car was not properly cleaned.
   3. The dealership did not hand over all the documents during delivery itself. Some were obtained, delivered later.
   4. The car already had done about 350kms on the ODO which they did not inform me at all.
3. These are replaced in my car so far - My timing belt, belt tensioner (twice), A-mount, full steering column, etc.
4. Now my clutch pedal is dead AGAIN while driving (for the third time). And it is the same issue of clutch fluid/oil hose cut
   1. I was struck in the middle of the road AGAIN with my family. This is going endless.
   2. The first time it happened was in July 2020. It was fixed in SRT Tata, Coimbatore. The reason for the cut was a rupture, which was a design flaw.
   3. The second time it happened was in Feb 2021. It was fixed in Lakshmi Tata, OMR, Chennai. The reason for the cut was rupture (However they say that it was rat-bite which doesn't make sense at all and is almost impossible since I have my other car and the other's cars that have never experienced such an issue in the past - I am 100% sure it was because of rupture and not because of rat-bite also due to the way the hose was damaged).
   4. Last month is the third time. And the reason for the cut is again due to rupture. However this time the cut is in a different location.
5. Every time, I am hearing these words from the SC and Tata Motors - This won't happen again, and this is fixed permanently. And again it happens.

I am writing this since I am totally fed up and frustrated with my car and Tata Motors itself.

I am also fed up with their replies "We understand your situation", "we deeply regret the inconvenience caused", 'we will ensure this won't happen again" since Jan 2020. In fact, there were & are other issues as well.

I have raised my concerns and complaints through email numerous times to all the authorities. I received calls from regional managers, southern head, etc. I insisted on a vehicle replacement, which they say that it’s not their policy. [*]The hose is now replaced again. And this is the best solution and “will not happen again reply” that I can get from Tata.[/list]Now I have completely lost peace of mind.
I always want and love to drive wherever possible – be it how far and what time. Now I am totally disappointed and frustrated. Haunting thoughts of “when will the car stop”.
Dear BHPians – Your suggestions and recommendations are most valuable to me to make a decision.
I need your suggestions/advice/recommendations for two of my stresses.

1. Should I continue with my car or should I sell it immediately?
2. If I have to sell it, my concern is what should I buy that will be my only car (Budget around 25-26 lakhs). The following are the only options available
   1. Compass – Too expensive, not worth 30-31 Lakhs.
   2. Crysta – Again the same reason I mentioned earlier
   3. XUV700 – Still in beta phase. At least 1 year to sort out all niggles and issues.
   4. Alcazar – Creta is 100% better. Not worthy contender.
   5. Safari – Tata again. Expensive top end compared to XUV700.

[YD14]

Your car is a lemon and should be replaced by Tata. Its not even something bearable like software glitches, you have been stranded in the middle of road multiple times already. Check out this thread: what do if you are struck with a lemon car.

I say you escalate things once again with higher ups and demand for replacement. Also create a separate thread or update this one to focus solely on your troubles with the car and how Tata dealt with them in more detail. Every manufacturer keeps an eye on Team-bhp and a thread describing a customers horrible experience is the last thing they want. If that doesn't work, then you can explore legal options too.

The car will not fetch a good price in the used car market and you will lose a lot of money for no fault of your own. So think twice before buying another vehicle.

[Hayek]

You have driven 32,000 kms with this car. It surely can’t be that it keeps breaking down all the time. As I have said on some other threads, expecting cars to never break down in our road conditions, with the kind of rampant fuel adulteration that takes place is not reasonable. You are likely to face similar issues with other cars too. And as someone who seems to live on highways, safety should be a key parameter - which rules out the Alcazar. If you are hell bent on replacing your car, the only option you should consider from the set above is the Crysta. Yes, it’s a boring people mover but it will be reliable and far less likely to strand you on the highway.

So the choice is clear - do you want to look at the 32,000 km (presumably 500+ hours) of driving time that the car worked or the few occasions when it stranded you on the road. If the former, stick with this car. It has been used A LOT - and so the occasional breakdown should not be a big deal. If you disagree, the Crysta is the car to get.

[Shreyans_Jain]

Your car has turned out to be a lemon. That’s a hard pill to swallow, but that needs to be done. Sell it off as soon as you can for whatever money you can. Repeated failures that are leaving you stranded are just not acceptable. Any car from any brand can turn out to be a lemon. Guess it’s just bad luck it wound up in your hands.

The way you selected the Harrier in the first place was totally logical and thorough. If you repeat the process, you’ll end up with the same answers again. The BS6 Harrier and Safari are a lot more sorted than the old car. I don’t see any sense in paying 30L+ for a Compass, unless it absolutely is the top end diesel 4x4 automatic. That, only if you plan to put the hardware to good use. May I suggest that you consider a pre loved Compass diesel manual. Great deals are to be had on 2019 and 2020 cars. I picked up a 2000km done car a few months back, for about 10L less than it’s on road price. Compass has abysmal resale value, which is great if you are looking to buy.

[shancz]

Originally Posted by Livnletcarsliv

I am writing this since I am totally fed up and frustrated with my car and Tata Motors itself.

I have raised my concerns and complaints through email numerous times to all the authorities. I received calls from regional managers, southern head, etc. I insisted on a vehicle replacement, which they say that it’s not their policy.

Now I have completely lost peace of mind.

I always want and love to drive wherever possible – be it how far and what time. Now I am totally disappointed and frustrated. Haunting thoughts of “when will the car stop”.

Sorry to hear your situation and this is exactly what we have been discussing here (The Indian Car Buyer | Struggling with problems in brand new cars).
This is not the first time I was discussing on a specific topic online/offline and the exact case has appeared.
Also quite sad that all of them have pointed to the apathy of manufacturer/company and the troubles being borne by the customer

I understand your situation like mentioned once you lose confidence in your vehicle the very purpose of it is lost.

In your case your repeated troubles are being caused by design fault of TML and they should rectify.
If they have failed in it then thy should replace the vehicle. Your current vehicle should be used by them to find out the root cause of the issue if they're interested.
Write to TML HQ since the regional guys haven't resolved your issue.

Slightly OT :
Shocking how opposite are the issues with Kushaq and Harrier while both end with the same outcome.
Skoda used an Indian name but failed in localization to our ground realities(as they're claiming currently) while Tata got a foreign(Land Rover) platform but failed in system designs causing repeated issues like this.
But both have a common outcome though, troubles and heartache for customers compounded by shoddy customer support.

Originally Posted by Livnletcarsliv

1. Should I continue with my car or should I sell it immediately?
2. If I have to sell it, my concern is what should I buy that will be my only car (Budget around 25-26 lakhs). The following are the only options available

1. Continue and pursue them to the hilt to resolve your issue whichever way possible.
I think after all these kms they should be able to figure out the cause after escalating to HQ. All they have to do is to dedicate a few hours of the person concerned on the issue. If they can design it they can fix it.

2. Would advice against changing the car though. Not a lot of reliable options around. Wait for 1-2 years and see how the XUV700 pans out, Jeep's new models and future should be clearer then as well. The other vehicles you've explained it yourself. No point getting a Safari or anything from TML if they can't solve your issue satisfactorily.

Keep us posted and good luck

[abhishek46]

I remember your previous thread regarding the repeated fuel pipe ruptures.
As far I recollect, despite changing the pipe multiple times, it was getting ruptured.

If you are interested, you can take things into your own hands, and wrap multiple layers of some heat resistant tape liberally all over the hose, at some FNG.

Selling the vehicle now may not be the best thing to do here, as you would take a heavy hit on the resale.

Nevertheless, if you do wish to get rid of your ride, then the Crysta is probably the only niggle free upgrade out there, as per your requirements.

[Bibendum90949]

Originally Posted by Hayek

As I have said on some other threads, expecting cars to never break down in our road conditions, with the kind of rampant fuel adulteration that takes place is not reasonable. You are likely to face similar issues with other cars too.

So the choice is clear - do you want to look at the 32,000 km (presumably 500+ hours) of driving time that the car worked or the few occasions when it stranded you on the road.

OP's car broke down each time owing to same issue(Plumbing - hoses not routed correctly resulting in rubbing with adjacent surfaces/parts and then later rupturing). He had shared his plight in earlier posts too. I don't think fuel adulteration was in picture any time. Getting stranded three times is one too many for a new car. Some of the kushaq owners will agree. I can agree if the ownership lasted 5 years and 1.5 lakh kilometers and one faced with sporadic break downs, that's not the case here. Even then, the root cause can't be the same every time. This is a clear case of Tata's notorious QC. Is it a common affair to have all the below parts changed in such a short span?

These are replaced in my car so far - My timing belt, belt tensioner (twice), A-mount, full steering column, etc.

Quoting other bhpians' posts and OP's old post for reference.

Originally Posted by abhishek46

I looked at the picture you had shared.

This is not a rat bite.
This looks like the hose is rubbing against something.
This also means that the hose is moving about or shaking/vibrating.

If Tata is not 100% sure of their revised routing of the hose, then, they should apply a protective tape around the hose.The Hose should also be fastened securely in position, to avoid it getting 'rubbed' against other parts.

Originally Posted by audioholic

I would buy you a drink everytime a manufacturer would admit something as a design flaw when you complain to them. Maybe a dealer might do that, but when you talk about giving something in writing, no, thank you. At the most they can only assure you that it would be fixed and it would not re-occur. If a hose isnt secured correctly and that get friction related wear which would result in a rupture, that is indeed a design flaw whether or not the manufacturer would agree or give in writing. And three times in 30k kms is something that points to abnormal wear over a fixed period of time. If it was the act of rats or any other issue it can crop up irregularly and can also happen when the rest of the hose is completely free of wear. But here a pretty huge portion of the hose is worn out due to friction.

Originally Posted by Livnletcarsliv

Exactly, the hose is moving, vibrating, rubbing against whatever is there. And it is the reason for the damage.

[Livnletcarsliv]

Originally Posted by YD14

I say you escalate things once again with higher ups and demand for replacement. Also create a separate thread or update this one to focus solely on your troubles with the car and how Tata dealt with them in more detail. Every manufacturer keeps an eye on Team-bhp and a thread describing a customers horrible experience is the last thing they want. If that doesn't work, then you can explore legal options too.

This is the thread I already created. Not great impact to Tata from this thread. Not a great response from Tata so far.
https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techn...am-fed-up.html (Clutch pedal problem with my Tata Harrier | 3rd time now & I am fed up)
Of course a significant input for prospective buyers of Harrier/Safari.

What legal options do I have? And what will it lead to?

Originally Posted by Hayek

If the former, stick with this car. It has been used A LOT - and so the occasional breakdown should not be a big deal. If you disagree, the Crysta is the car to get.

Mind says "live with it" for some more time (Don't know how long though). Heart says sell it ASAP (Also concerned about the lack of appropriate alternative even if I extend my budget to 30L) even though I have an extended warranty. Lose a few lakhs vs peace of mind/smiling face when on the wheels.

Originally Posted by Shreyans_Jain

May I suggest that you consider a pre loved Compass diesel manual. Great deals are to be had on 2019 and 2020 cars. I picked up a 2000km done car a few months back, for about 10L less than its on-road price. Compass has abysmal resale value, which is great if you are looking to buy.

Jeep's experience is almost a copy-paste of Tata's, probably 20% better. I know quite a few customers facing reliability issues and poor ASS experience with Jeep. The number may be less because of the low sales numbers compared to Harrier.

[greenhorn]

My take. If I gave up my indica every time the Tata SVC shrugged their hands and said 'they've fixed it permanently" and have it come back. I'd have given it up long ago. I don't think it's a design issue else others would have reported it.

Give it to a competent private workshop. Expecting Tata r&d to fix it is futile. You're in Coimbatore. You're where Tata r&d goes to when they are stuck. A reputed garage there probably has more engineering talent than all of Tata service centers put together. They should be able to provide a fix

[Livnletcarsliv]

I understand that there is no perfect car that has ever been produced by any manufacturer.

But all I am wondering is, for the fault of the OEM's/Dealer's, why should a customer bear the brunt.

Unfortunately, there are no laws here in India to protect the customers/common man and the government (all the governments) is least bothered about it.

[RJK]

Originally Posted by Livnletcarsliv

I am also fed up with their replies "We understand your situation", "we deeply regret the inconvenience caused”

These are just words, they mean NOTHING. I can assure you, I have heard same words from Toyota dealers on their incompetence and inefficiency as well.

If you want any happiness from Tata, sell the car and buy their shares.
As Lucrative and sexy looking their cars are, atleast a generation of employees need to retire before we can trust their vehicles. 20L is no small amount to risk and be in a situation as yours.

Originally Posted by Hayek

You have driven 32,000 kms with this car. It surely can’t be that it keeps breaking down all the time. As I have said on some other threads, expecting cars to never break down in our road conditions, with the kind of rampant fuel adulteration that takes place is not reasonable.

Oh, come on! Same fuel is used by all other cars, not every other car in his city seems to be breaking down, does it?
I agree with your views of regarding rampant corruption, adulteration, lack of sympathy/empathy in India but not in this specific case.

[YD14]

Originally Posted by Livnletcarsliv

This is the thread I already created. Not great impact to Tata from this thread. Not a great response from Tata so far.
https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techn...am-fed-up.html (Clutch pedal problem with my Tata Harrier | 3rd time now & I am fed up)
Of course a significant input for prospective buyers of Harrier/Safari.

Seems like Tata has given up on reducing bad publicity of BS4 Harrier because of so many issues. Hence Tata will also be unwilling to replace the vehicle too. That puts you at a disadvantage already.

What legal options do I have? And what will it lead to?

I was refering to consumer forum courts. Someone in my extended family had once filled a case in such a court. Although I don't know about the outcome.
I am no legal expert, but I would have talked to a lawyer if I was in such a situation myself, considering the vehicle is only 1.5 years old and with the kind of service history it has, it won't fetch a lot in terms of resale. Also the price of almost every car has gone up compared Jan 2020. The monetary damage would be considerable.

You will be at a loss both ways, whether you go through the trouble of holding Tata responsible or sell the car and buy a new one. Which one of them you are ready to bear, is a personal preference.

[lsjey]

Originally Posted by greenhorn

. You're where Tata r&d goes to when they are stuck. A reputed garage there probably has more engineering talent than all of Tata service centers put together. They should be able to provide a fix

Completely agree with this suggestion.

When I was buying Tata Indica Vista in 2010 friends made fun of me by saying "Soon you'll be inviting the service centre guys to your family functions! You and your car will stay there so much that you'll forget your near and dear!"

I did not believe them at that time, but later realized how true it was .

Tatas do make competent products, but are not well finished. Once you hunt down and identify competent support, you'll really enjoy Tata cars. They are really value for money indeed. They are not just for ordinary people.

Please try with the solution suggested by greenhorn. He recently updated his thread on servicing his car's turbo.

Regards,
lsjey

[shancz]

Originally Posted by Livnletcarsliv

The hose is now replaced again. And this is the best solution and “will not happen again reply” that I can get from Tata.

I went through your original thread (Clutch pedal problem with my Tata Harrier | 3rd time now & I am fed up) on the issue.

Few questions :
- Was the angle of battery acid damage probed and struck off ?
- The melted scar marks suggest its rubbing/touching against something hot, I don't think its plastic.
- Did the protective sheath they put on the line also rupture ? Can you share the pics ?
- Was the sheath made of metal or just usual plastic/rubber ?
- Try wrapping the impact area on the line with layers of aluminium tape. This should hold for a longer time and if it was actually rubbing against plastic you should be able to see telltale marks.
- Ask the SC/TML if they can use the aluminium tape or install some mounting/hook which can hold the line in place and prevent it from vibrating/rubbing against other components.

Zooming into your pic:


Some queries :
- The whitish stuff in the blue circles, is due to battery acid corrosion or something else ?
- The red rectangle shows the impact area and the pattern to me shows either chemical corrosion or proximity(may not be a contact) with a hot surface.
- the orange rectangle shows some pinch marks not sure if they are due to routing or happened while taking out the line.

Going through the video I can see that your battery has been leaking acid/water since the area under your removed battery has telltale corrosion marks. Try checking if the battery lids are properly closed or changing it as if you've tried everything else, might not solve it it but probably won't contribute to it.

Whatever the case maybe, IMO the aluminium tape is DIY and worth a shot.


Hope it helps.

[Mortis]

For now I would suggest keeping the car and doing a DIY or FNG fix for it.

Step 1 : Try an reroute the line as much as you can. If the line is available in free lengths then maybe increase the length just enough to take it through another path.

Step 2 : Replace the line with an aftermarket braided metal line. You will need to research available sizes and fittings.
OR
Really reinforce the line in the section where it keeps failing. Aluminum tape over the line then plastic wiring conduit and then a softer hose pipe on top.