[Vandit]

Originally Posted by zing007

I personally feel when 20% ethanol will be mixed with petrol, it will be launched as a separate brand and there would be separate engines for it. (It is still a guess) But when such fuel would be launched it will also come with additives to prevent knocking etc. in older engines.

While we are all expecting it. The government's plans are still obscure on this specifically.

Again.. having to manufacture and distribute multiple brands of petrol will not be a very fun idea for OMC's I'm sure. Additionally supporting E10 for longer times will be counter productive to the government's target of pushing E20 sufficiently fast enough to make a material impact on either their import reduction or emission reduction plans.

The number of E20 cars on road will rise only gradually.. it isn't like E10 cars are not going to be around for another 15 years at least? So I don't see how it really will work out.

Like many other members have posted.. there appears to be a lot of lacunae in the details and clearly non-synchronised efforts on part of the official machinery involved in these policy decisions?

[zing007]

The problem with this government is its obscureness, whether it be the implementation of BS6 norms or other safety standards. Information is obscure and then you get a surprise. The government needs to put clear plans of what it intends to do in the next 10-20 years.

[Fastdriver]

E20 fuel will certainly ruin the driving pleasure as a litre of ethanol contains approximately two thirds of the energy provided by a litre of petrol. If the government is sincere to reduce pollution it should stop sale of adulterated fuel by unscrupulous dealers and issuance of fake pollution under control certificates. The government should also provide pure petrol to interested car lovers as an option, maybe at higher cost. Loving a petrol car is not a sin.

[rakesh_r]

Originally Posted by TrackDay

I
Can someone explain in layman terms what we should watch out for and the fuel that will be suitable for older rides ?

Did you check for water or dirt inside the fuel tank? Heard presence of water in petrol with ethanol creates issues.

[praveenbm5]

Most of the critics are missing the point.

Ethanol blending is about decreasing our reliance on imported crude. Even 10% decrease will give us a sizeable trade deficit advantage and bargaining power.

Imported crude makes rupee cheaper and other capital goods imports expensive which in turn makes everything else expensive. This is just one of the many reasons.

It's a significant road block for the development of any nation.

Remember that paying for crude is paying foreigners who spend it elsewhere and do not spur any economic activity locally while paying for ethanol goes to domestic farmers and industries irrespective of corruption which is omnipresent in every developing country.

[ASP_73]

Thank you for bringing in this very interesting point.

1. If ethanol produced at much grander scale than present, will the cost go down ?
2. India spends $110 Billion per year for oil import , with 20% locally produced ethanol , $22billion will reach to local economy , will this help the farmers and equipment manufacturers and thereby have positive impact on overall economy ?

[Phukan]

I am a oil refiner and one problem we face with handling ethanol is it's affinity to water. Ethanol is highly hygroscopic.
Because of the same, we face huge corrosion issues in our plant and equipments. Although, we have systems in place to ensure that moisture ingress is minimum as long as as gasoline is within our custody, Once ethanol blended petrol or Motor spirit leaves the tankage of OMC, it will keep absorbing moisture during transportation, storage in retail outlets and in vehicles etc. So other than engine performance which is expected to be lower as ethanol has lower calorific value when compared to gasoline ( even though ethanol is having octane no of 108 compared to gasoline Octane no of 91 for regular MS), corrosion is another aspect that needs to be looked into by vehicle owners.

Having said that, Studies shows that ethanol blended petrol helps reduce carbon dioxide as well as VOC (volatile organic matter) when compared to regular petrol. Moreover, use of ethanol can effectively be carbon neutral as crop production would consume the Cabondioxide from atmosphere and with the new technologies such as 3G ethanol in offer ( and also implemented in IOC's Panipat Refinery), not only the corn or rice grains but any biomass including all agricultural, food and municipal waste can be utilised as feedstock to produce ethanol. This can be combined with carbon dioxide capturing technologies to capture the CO2 produced in the processing plants.

This is immediate future or at least the transition phase till the time world is ready enough to embrace electric mobility in toatlity, which is very much required for a sustainable future.

[Livnletcarsliv]

Good discussion and need of the hour topic.

There are definitely pros and cons of using E10/E20.
Pros (for India) - Lesser emission, reduced import bill/dependency, more "make in India" progress, etc.
Cons (for India) - Major industry disruption, Significant impact of the OEMs, Significant impact on the engine/vehicle parts, high consumption of the most precious natural resource - WATER (since all these crops are highly water-dependent), and finally the important part is the limited time period for this usage - may be about 3-4 years since EV are the going to be the future.

Notwithstanding, in a country like India where the implementation and execution of any policy (by any government) is going to be a long walk for any authority, I think this is a bad move.

While the whole world is focusing all its resources on the adoption of EVs, and more and more mass-market models (2/3/4 wheelers) are in the prototype/development/trial stages, a sudden and significant move like this is like taking one step forward and one step back. I only see this as pure favoritism. And where eventually only corporates can benefit out of this. Neither the farmer nor the end-user of the fuel.

Yes, the idea of reducing the import bill and dependency is most welcome and should desperately be implemented. But isn't this a stop-gap move that will eventually negatively impact every citizen of the country except some corporate biggies? Are we so dumb to implement such a significant disrupting economic and environmental policy as a short-term stop-gap arrangement?

[Bibendum90949]

Now the onus is on vehicle owners. The suggestion in the last line of this advisory is so impractical.

[pkk077]

Do we have any company in India selling ethanol free fuels even if they cost higher or is ethanol blended even in 95 and 100 Octane fuel which OMCs are currently selling?

[TrackDay]

Originally Posted by rakesh_r

Did you check for water or dirt inside the fuel tank? Heard presence of water in petrol with ethanol creates issues.

Didn't do a detailed check, but a quick visual glance didn't show anything out of the ordinary. I will be giving it for a complete service once the monsoon is over. From the typical oil change, oil filter and air filter replacement, I will also be changing spark plug, fuel filter, accelerator cable and get the carburetor cleaned. But now considering getting the tank checked too and if possible change the fuel lines.

But what concerns me is this repeating again and how to avoid it ? Is filling premium petrol the only option ? or do they have ethanol in that too ?

[Carpainter]

While I feel this decision from our beloved government is arbitrary in nature and at the cost of saving import bills (business interest of some), they are putting so many citizen and their assets at risk, I think we should focus on Brazil and how the transition happened there when they shifted to E25 fuel from regular gasoline and how the older cars worked with the change.

Higher tank range is one reason why I prefer our diesel car over petrol one for highway trips as I don't know the fuel quality of bunks on our highways but it seems after taking the price to the century mark, our government is making sure we don't get to enjoy our rides as much as we used to before by degrading fuel quality further for a not so long term benefit.

[callmeneo]

The most affected components would be the rubber components such as seals which come in contact with the Ethanol fuel. The normal NBR rubber will puff up / become hard and crack with increase in Ethanol content.

[Vandit]

Originally Posted by callmeneo

The most affected components would be the rubber components such as seals which come in contact with the Ethanol fuel. The normal NBR rubber will puff up / become hard and crack with increase in Ethanol content.

I feel it may not be just that. I also think there's probably going to be issues with the engine combustion process with misfirings and similar. This you can tell from the circular put out by the OMC's itself. If the fuel components are going to separate out into distinct layers on account of absorption of moisture, it's bound to have issues in the engine performance.

Looking at how fuel is transferred from major depots to the fuel stations in transportation trucks which are in all sorts of conditions, I'm not sure how OMC's are going to assure customers there was no absorption of water/moisture at their end completely unless you insist on checking the quality at the pump every time you fill up.

[Phukan]

Originally Posted by pkk077

Do we have any company in India selling ethanol free fuels even if they cost higher or is ethanol blended even in 95 and 100 Octane fuel which OMCs are currently selling?

Originally Posted by TrackDay

Didn't do a detailed check, but a quick visual glance didn't show anything out of the ordinary. I will be giving it for a complete service once the monsoon is over. From the typical oil change, oil filter and air filter replacement, I will also be changing spark plug, fuel filter, accelerator cable and get the carburetor cleaned. But now considering getting the tank checked too and if possible change the fuel lines.

But what concerns me is this repeating again and how to avoid it ? Is filling premium petrol the only option ? or do they have ethanol in that too ?

Ethanol blending is presently based on availability. So its there in regular as well as Premium versions as long as sufficient ehthanol is available for blending . However, I am not specifically sure about the 100 Octane version. This is quite new in the market and volumes are quite low. OMC haven't started to optimize its production cost as of yet. Going ahead when the market catches up, 100 Octane too might see ethanol blending. In general, ethanol blending is normally not carried out in any of the available Gasoline version during Monsoon season because of high atmospheric humidity.