[itwasntme]

Originally Posted by AMG Power

I have mentioned this earlier - DSG gearboxes have an unofficial unlimited warranty and goodwill warranties will be honored within VW / Skoda subject to certain conditions.
1. Adherence to service schedules
2. Avoiding any modifications that could affect the gearbox - remap, Power increases through exhaust modifications and the like.
3. Should not have serviced the car outside the ASS resulting in issues
4. No non OE parts fixed on the car.

DO NOT reach out to the CEO or the VW group Chairman straightaway as some over enthusiastic folks do.

Excellent advice. VAG is a very process-driven conglomerate, and VW even more so. Don't try and short-circuit their internal processes immediately.

Some questions from my side:
1.How many km have you run?
2. Are there any modifications at all in any form?
3. Are your previous complaints (on lag etc) documented on the job cards/invoice or your previous complaints been formally rejected on email?
4. Has every service been as per the prescribed intervals?

Originally Posted by vishy76

This is a common occurrence on the DQ200. Mechatronics failures and premature clutch pack wear outs are both commonly heard of as you mentioned, and whoever buys these cars on the pretext that both will be reliable is a fool IMO.

The best course of action is what you have done. Asking for goodwill warranty. Mechatronics replacements are approved and 100 percent of the cost is usually covered by VW, but clutch pack failures after the car has turned 4-5 years old are considered wear and tear items and depending on your luck, you can get anywhere between 20-50 percent goodwill coverage or even none.

Again, absolutely correct. Not scaring anybody but you can see WHY the DSG Mechatron repair process is so fiendishly complex:

https://www.eco-torque.co.uk/post/vw...arbox-problems

Originally Posted by petrol_power

Here is the cost break-up shared by the ASS.

Multi clutch -84000/-
Fly wheel -28000/-
Mechatronics-75000/-
Total labor -12000+ tax
Tax -2280
Total amount- 201280/-

Depending upon your mileage, you'll probably need to pay for the flywheel and a substantial portion of the multi-clutch. I am hoping that VW will quietly replace your Mechatron under goodwill warranty.

[nirmaljusdoit]

As your car is a 2015 model and already depreciated, spending 2 lakhs on a gearbox replacement seems very high. DSG failure is a known problem in VW as well.

This goodwill warranty etc is a grey area and there are many cases where replacements have been turned down. You could try your luck but remember all escalations will come back to dealer only to resolve. Try approaching the GM of the dealership and politely put across your case if not for full amount, at least a reasonable partial amount. Each dealer is given a discretionary budget for handling cases such as this.

If that doesn’t happen, you could try the option of sourcing a second hand gearbox also.

Reliability is the main reason why VW is sourcing transmissions from (Aisin) Toyota now which are far better engineered to last. Also Toyota is known for honouring and handling warranty claims far better as and when they arise (if any) When replacing transmission oil, always try to ensure that the manufacturer oil/recommended oil is used. That is the first point of failure. Some have drain and fill method which should be followed religiously.

[petrol_power]

Originally Posted by nirmaljusdoit

You could try your luck but remember all escalations will come back to dealer only to resolve.

Exactly, this has been my worry as I had tried to escalate few cases earlier and VW customer-care kicks everything to the dealer without any intervention from their VW staff.
Hence I tried to get some contact details of VW staff directly as otherwise I know that all my effort will go in vein.

And today morning I got message from my dealer that VW has routed it to them and they will revert after 1 week as workshop is closed during weekdays and open only in weekends (rule from Kerala govt for lockdown policy). Now, I am again at the mercy of the dealers. And I have no rapport with them as I shifted from Bangalore to Kerala 6 months back only.

I was based out of Bangalore and all Bangalore dealers were pathetic to say the least. You give for 2 complaints, they will repair 1 complaint and gift you 3 extra complaints. I had my windshield replaced from Apple motors Bangalore, but it started leaking after 2 years. But since the leak happened once I permanently transferred to Kerala, I couldnt take it to Bangalore. VW customer-care will just route it to Apple Auto and finally I spent 10,000/- (dont remember the exact price) from VW EVM kochi to get it sealed again as I didnt have any more time to waste. EVM Kochi said that the poor sealant/ glue used by Apple Auto Bangalore is the reason for the leak.

Then I had replaced my bumper from VW Bangalore Elite motors and they put me a new bumper without applying putti before painting. And paint peel off started in 1 year. Again escalated to VW, no use. I painted it by myself by paying 6000/- rs.

So my experience with VW customer-care has been extremely bad and I feel they will move only if some seniors are contacted.

[GTO]

Sorry to hear about this, bud. But the fact is, the DQ200 can and will fail for most owners. My brother recently bought a car with another DSG variant, but I have still prepared him for a minimum of 1 failure & breakdown. Sucks.

Am sending your thread link to some people I know at VW. Hopefully, the company offers you some sort of goodwill warranty support.

Originally Posted by drpudhi

Sorry to say this, but welcome to the club. I think it's one eventuality that's waiting to happen if you own a DQ200 gearbox, sooner or later.

Agreed.

To be frank there are no fixes for the DQ200 gearbox

Agreed. It is fundamentally flawed. I had even posted as such when VW announced a "magical" solution via the new transmission oil.

Originally Posted by tazmaan

But a better strategy is to buy new car hold it till warranty lasts and sell it before warranty is over ?

Not really. In 99% of the cases, repairing a car is cheaper + more sensible than selling it - related article (Want to sell your car because of repairs? Think again!).

Originally Posted by petrol_power

Here is the cost break-up shared by the ASS.

Multi clutch -84000/-
Fly wheel -28000/-
Mechatronics-75000/-
Total labor -12000+ tax
Tax -2280
Total amount- 201280/-

You should really get a repair estimate from an independent shop as well. Am sure that the cost will be half or less. Have any BHPians gotten their DSGs fixed outside? How much did you pay?

[vishy76]

Originally Posted by GTO

You should really get a repair estimate from an independent shop as well. Am sure that the cost will be half or less. Have any BHPians gotten their DSGs fixed outside? How much did you pay?

Going to an FNG is a very tempting proposition in such a case. However, it does have more drawbacks than advantages especially if the owner has been getting his car serviced at VW always and has little to no knowledge of how good or bad an FNG is.

- The alignment of the clutch plates, mechatronics calibration and the likes has to be done carefully. It's a complex gearbox with an even more complex repair procedure. The clutches and their alignment needs to be perfect and shims need to be installed of the appropriate size to ensure perfect spacing. Most garages don't do it. This results in premature clutch wear

- The biggest draw is the fact that the job done by VW carries a 2 year warranty. Since the OP is getting almost the entire gearbox replaced (or all parts that are susceptible to failure), he can be rest assured he need not spend a penny for the next 2 years on the DSG

- Lastly, the mechatronics, clutch pack and flywheel all three are non repairable parts. A used mechatronics is possible to source and install, but I wouldn't gamble and trust a used component that is unreliable right out of the factory. Thus, total cost of parts might not be all that different from VW especially when you factor in discounts and goodwill the dealership might agree to. The only saving will be on labour while sacrificing on basic peace of mind.

[Jaguar]

Originally Posted by gkveda

Based on the statement in the quote, do you have evidences to show that you have complained to ASC multiple times when car turned 3 years? If yes, you should catch the dealer and say, during warranty period, although you have raised the complaint several times, they have not attended the issue and now after warranty has expired, they are asking you to change the gear box with hefty amount.

If you take it up directly with manufacturer, they will definitely look into the issue and evidences and support you.

Originally Posted by petrol_power

And my issues started in the 3rd year of ownership itself when the car had run around 30k to 40,000 kms. I had written it in a mail once to VW and I have attached that mail also to VW now.

Ad drpudhi and locusjag said, this happens randomly, and there is no proper root cause associated with this.

What I have experienced is that, whenever the service center is not able to identify the root cause of an issue, they simply brush it off as a random minor event (similar to what we software guys do with the bugs ). But, I make it a point to have them enter the issue in the job card so that it is in the system. Sometimes you have to insist and stand your ground to convince them that you are not expecting a fix right away and they can add "no issue found" against the line item if needed but it has to be in the system.

[AutoNoob]

Originally Posted by Jaguar

But, I make it a point to have them enter the issue in the job card so that it is in the system. Sometimes you have to insist and stand your ground to convince them that you are not expecting a fix right away and they can add "no issue found" against the line item if needed but it has to be in the system.

Ditto here. I insist on adding even squeak and rattle in the system and make sure that they do it in front of me. Then I ask for the copy of Job-card to see if its appearing there. No verbal assurances are acceptable to me.

This has saved me on couple of occasions :
1. Got driver seat frame replaced
2. Got front room lamp housing replaced

Nothing was serious with these, but they squeaked and rattled; and I am fussy about such stuff.

Both were replaced under warranty as there were 4 past entries in their system and nothing had improved by whatever solutions the ASS had.

[somen87]

Can you re-confirm if the replacement is only for the mechatronic or the clutch+DMF as well.

I had my mechatronics replaced and total cost for 85k. However i suspect my clutch pack could also be going bad due to strange slipping noises when the car is running continuously on traffic after a long drive of 40-50 kms at-least.

I had shared my experience in another thread, the ordeal happened in Jan 2021 for 2016 bought Vento TSI.

https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techn...ml#post5021581 (DSG, demystified! All you need to know about VW's Direct-Shift Gearbox)

[AMG Power]

Originally Posted by GTO

You should really get a repair estimate from an independent shop as well. Am sure that the cost will be half or less. Have any BHPians gotten their DSGs fixed outside? How much did you pay?

Yes, there are alternatives to getting the DSG repaired with the ASS but it would depend on one’s risk appetite and access to competent FNG’s.

The main problem in repairing a DSG is identifying and isolating the reason for the failure which can at times be an arduous task. A failure can occur for something as basic as the reserve capacity of your battery to valve seat wear and tear to problems with the control board to pump failure to solenoid failure to lack of pressure within the accumulator to frame cracks to clutch wear and more. Apart from the reserve capacity of the battery, the rest of the issues require effort, skill and time to identity and isolate and sometimes complex equipments.

Given this background, these are the options available:

Option 1 - Picking up a used DSG from another total loss car. There are quite a few total loss cars around and usually the gearbox is not affected. Such a gearbox can be picked up for a little more than a song. This can be quite a good alternative once the gearbox is properly coded into the ECU. This option however requires time and effort to locate the right total loss car and is best done along with the help of a good FNG. This is currently the best alternative to replacement under Indian conditions.

Option 2: Picking up a refurbished DSG gearbox from a well known refurbisher (currently in India one has to import this making it a bit more expensive than it should be). The advantage here is they will pair the DSG with the VIN number of the car so there will not be issues on that score. Here also, a problem can recur, and though the refurbisher may provide a warranty, enforcing that warranty would be tedious and expensive.

Option - 3 - Repair of DSG - This can be done if one is serious enough and prepared to face the risk of premature failure should something go wrong. You would need to find the right FNG and fortunately some have sprung up that have technicians with long experience with VW’s. The only problem here is that the repair can be completed only if the proper child part is available or proper machining can be done - if for instance, it is a problem with the valve seats, a machining can only be done once so one has to have the right equipment and skill levels to carry it out properly. Similarly if the child part is not available, one is back to square one.

As you can see all of these options do carry an element of risk but it also comes with a lower cost than a replacement.

[Comrade]

Originally Posted by locusjag

We all should set aside money for our cars as they get more and more technically complex - not just for cars with DSG boxes. Even torque converter gearboxes can go bad and they can cost a lot as well - a member's AT Creta had a 7 lac replacement bill for its gearbox. A member's Crysta's Aisin AT gearbox came to 4 lacs. The 4 speed Jattco sourced AT that Maruti uses costs 80 thousand.

Turbochargers can also go bad...

So I have set aside money in SBI Overnight fund. The money is 100% safe, is earning 4.5% currently and can be pulled out in 24 hours if needed.

Slightly OT but there may be scope for someone to open a tranny rebuilding business, and supply these refurbs (with 6 month 10k km warranty thrown in) to third party repairs. Third party car mechanics replacing bad AT with a refurb one is very common in US, especially with out of warranty 100k-mile cars.

[AKSarkar1]

Very sorry to hear that you have to go through these troubles. VW Dealers are now known for their range of excuses that they have to offer, most of them are completely illogical and make no sense whatsoever, especially given the fact that you say your car is not flood-damaged. Regardless of how good/bad the VW service might be, the fact of the matter that remains is that these gearboxes are known to fail over time. Back in 2015 when I was purchasing my VW, I made it a point to avoid the AT version of the car. It definitely is not pleasurable to drive a manual VW in a city like Mumbai but there is certainly peace of mind.

I'm not an engineer nor a technical expert but I can share some generic advice and that would be to deal with VW guys in a firm way because otherwise, they will definitely push you around. As many other BHPians rightly suggested, VW might cover a certain percentage under goodwill if presented with logical arguments.

I have sent you a personal message with the contact details of VW India's Head of Group Technical Service, Product Liability. Hope this helps!

[noufal.ps]

Originally Posted by petrol_power

Requesting support from team-bhp-ians if any one has the contact mail id of higher officials of VW India or VW Global as I need to escalate it to them. Kindly DM me please. Dealer is not able to do anything.

Couple of pointers on next steps (learnt from fellow VAG car owners),

--> Be super persistent. VAG usually agrees for goodwill warranty if your service history is good and car is <100k driven. Ask for a 100% coverage and be firm on this.
--> Talk to the service manager at the VW ASS and give it couple of days. If they decline 100% coverage, get it on email.
--> Reach out to the regional service manager from VAG, if dealership is a straight No on above. Explain the issues to him/her and forward the emails where you had asked service centre to check jerking, other symptoms earlier (if you have these)

This is going to be a time taking activity, my friend. You are probably looking at 2-3 months of downtime with car. Keep the goal as 100% coverage and possibly walk away with that or something lower (say 80%)

[locusjag]

Originally Posted by Comrade

Slightly OT but there may be scope for someone to open a tranny rebuilding business, and supply these refurbs (with 6 month 10k km warranty thrown in) to third party repairs. Third party car mechanics replacing bad AT with a refurb one is very common in US, especially with out of warranty 100k-mile cars.

I agree. But the US has an advantage of immense scale, a sheer strength in numbers. When so many cars exist in a country, the repairs and servicing is bound to be more robust by FNGs.

Right now, with a whimper, there are a few FNGs who will try their hand at repairing Torque Converters. CVTs are a little tougher to get repaired outside of OEM authorized service centers. And DSGs are out of the question entirely.

[yd_gli]

I had a 2016 GT which I ran for 3 years before selling it off. It was on a company lease and I actually ended making a small profit on it post resale and the RTO reimbursement. I sold it because I could feel the DSG running into trouble. The frequent violent judders and delay in engaging gears. I took it to VW ASS and the tech only replied with a smile when I asked about the DSG issue. He mentioned that maybe I was running it too hard . I was already facing severe issues with the brakes and steering and had no interest in wasting additional money on the car.

Originally Posted by tazmaan

But a better strategy is to buy new car hold it till warranty lasts and sell it before warranty is over ? Now a days warranty will usually be offered for 5 to 7 years.

A repair of 2L on a 8L car is crazy.
Anyone who thinks that they can run a modern German with all the mechanical and electrical tech for 10 years with sole dependency on the ASS is living in fools paradise. It is not only the monetary value alone. It is the time, effort and mental agony spent in dealing with the repairs of complex systems that the local ASS has no clue about. Even if you have a competent FNG the quality of work will never be at factory standard and there is always a nagging doubt on how things will work out in the long run.
If you want to hold onto a car for 10 years then the only choice is a Toyota or a Maruti.

Originally Posted by Comrade

Slightly OT but there may be scope for someone to open a tranny rebuilding business, and supply these refurbs (with 6 month 10k km warranty thrown in) to third party repairs. Third party car mechanics replacing bad AT with a refurb one is very common in US, especially with out of warranty 100k-mile cars.

The aftermarket repair/rebuilding business works in the West because the law prevents OEMs from voiding the warranty when the car is maintained by an independent garage. Heck, my VW dealer in the US would help a customer get warranty claims even the car had aftermarket upgrades to mechanical/electrical components. Most VW dealers I dealt were super fond of mods and would even help the customer with them. Here in India, the dealers are out to make a buck at every chance and VW has asinine policies on mods and warranty claims.

[TheLizardKing]

Originally Posted by petrol_power

Mine is a 2015 November registered Polo GT TSI and my extended/ add-on warranty expired on 2020 November. I had tried to take extended warranty at that time, but VW denied it stating that mine was already on add-on warranty and any further extension is not possible.

Hi. As a fellow owner of a 2015 GT TSI, I can completely feel your pain. I hope things work out for you, and you are able to get your car repaired with minimum damage to the pocket. And while it may be a bit too late for you, I'm making this post for the benefit of other forum members.

The add-on warranty policy was updated sometime during end of 2020, and it is now possible to purchase it more than once. My fifth year add-on expired in August 2020, and I was not allowed to buy the sixth year's warranty at that time. Then in Dec 2020, I read on the official GT TSI thread that the policy has been changed. I reached out to my local VW A.S.S., and indeed was able to renew my add-on warranty.

I hope this post is useful. And good luck to you, OP.