[sarang.vaidya]

Before I start with the problem, let me take some time to give a brief history about the car. I have been owning Palio 1.6 Sport from 2007 and it has been a trouble free experience till now. It's an amazing vehicle to drive and that’s the sole reason I have not parted from this Italian beauty yet.

Initial signs of the issue:
I am not sure if this is relevant to the issue that I am currently facing, but I started noticing minor issues with the idling of the vehicle from around 3-4 of years now. During the cold start, the 1st crank was taking a bit longer than usual and the idling RPM was around 1000-1100 from the usual 900. Immediate 2nd crank was normal however the issue with the idling RPM was still present. Although it was highlighted during the service it was not sorted and the technician told me that its common with most of the Palio's and its nothing to worry about. I ignored it at that time as it was not a major concern.

1st time when this issue bothered me:
In March 2020, lockdown happened and as a result, the vehicles were not used frequently. But even during the lockdown, I ensured that the car was started and kept running for some time every week with short runs in the society campus. I started noticing this peculiar behavior from around June 2020 as it was very prominent during the drives. I was experiencing loss of power in the 1st and the 2nd gears and even when the gas pedal was floored the car did not get power and used to crawl. I had to race the engine to higher RPMs with half clutch to restore the power. Once the car was on the move in the 4th/5th gear, it was running smooth as usual with no symptoms of the issue. When I used to slow down with a gearshift on a speed breaker or something like that, I used to notice the power loss. This was not noticed every time but once in a while.

Service and attempt to fix the issue:
Somewhere in August/September I gave the car for service to a well-known Fiat technician in Pune. His name is Sharad Wagh and runs a small garage in Bibewadi area in Pune. I got his reference from another Fiat owner I know and Fiat owners from around Pune should be aware of him I believe. After the initial regular service, the regular trouble shooting was done to diagnose the issue where the spark-plug cables, ignition coil, fuel pump was replaced along with cleaning of the throttle body. But still the issue was not resolved.

Post this, the car was scanned and it returned an error with the MAP sensor which was replaced and the issue got resolved completely. The replaced MAP sensor was not new and was a sourced from another scrap vehicle.
I was happy as the car ran smooth as ever after this replacement of the MAP sensor.

Fast forward 2 months and one fine day while the car was idling in traffic, I saw the RPM acting up and was fluctuating erratically from 600-2000RPMs without any throttle input. I gave the throttle a little tap and it got settled at around 900. After this incident, this behavior was seen frequently and sometimes it used to take an engine shutdown to get the RPMs normal. Even, with this issue the car was pretty usable in even bumper to bumper Pune traffic.

Than one fine day while driving the traffic, the car died on me. This was noticed 3-4 times on signal or while idling in neutral in traffic in a total drive of 10kms. On the way back, the car behaved normally without any shutdowns. Now, over the time, this issue has aggravated to an extent, that the car is unusable in city traffic. Every time I slowdown on a signal or due to speed breaker the RPM drops to zero and the car shuts itself off.

Now when I called my technician he told me that this issue is because of the throttle body and it needs to be replaced. I am not sure what could be wrong here.

It would be really a great help if I get some suggestions or any reliable mechanic who can handle this situation and revive my car to its glory in a decent budget. I really want to keep this car with me but not at extravagant repair cost as everyone knows the price of this car if I try and sell it in the market
Solutions and suggestions are welcome.

[gkveda]

There are several point of failures possible and we need to arrive at the right point through sequence of checks.

1. Air filter and fuel filter needs to be cleaned. Since you have got it serviced, we can assume this is done

2. Fuel tank need to be checked for water or adulterated fuel as next step

3. Alternator needs to be checked along with battery.

4. Fuel pump need to be checked.

5. Fuel hose pipe need to be checked.

6. As mechanic has mentioned, may be throttle (accelerator valve) may need to be checked.

7. Sparkplugs (if it's petrol model) need to be checked and replaced.

One of these would be the cause if the car was working fine earlier and suddenly started showing up with the issue mentioned

[vrprabhu]

Check the RPM sensor - suggest that you get a new sensor (from 99rpm) and try. I had similar problems erratic idling issues with mine and finally found that the RPM sensor cable had worn out, resulting erratic idling and engine dying intermittently.

(PS - How old is the car? If it is ~2004 model (i.e. BS2), then could the BS6 fuel be adding fuel to the fire, so to speak? )

[sarang.vaidya]

Air Filter, fuel filters, spark plugs were replaced during the service. Fuel pump was also checked and was not found the cause of the issue.

Battery is slightly weak. I have a volt meter which fits in the 12V socket and it shows 11.5V when the engine is switched off. When I crank the engine, the voltage shown is around 13-13.5v which shows the alternator is doing its job. Correct me if I am wrong. Should I get the battery charged completely from a local battery wala?

Model is 2007 BSIII @vrprabhu

[sidindica]

Inconsistent idling issues are common with 1.6 as the vehicle ages. I own a same model car in same spec though from 2006.

If the throttle body is thoroughly cleaned, it should resolve the issue. However, check the MAP sensor as well as the switch located behind the left side of the fan (near the headlight). Clean all these sensors thoroughly and while doing this, ensure that the battery is disconnected.

Once cleaned, reset the ECU and scan and clear all the error codes and drive the car for 20-30 kms. Should be resolved. If not, the throttle body is to be replaced. The rpm sensor comes integrated with it and a new one costs 20k which isn't cheap. But again it should resolve the issue. Don't go for a used throttle body as it may suffer from similar issues as reported.

Battery is not the culprit here.

[amit_mechengg]

If its a Palio 1.6 replace the crank position sensor. Adjust the gap perfectly as per the manual. This is the weakest sensor causing these kind of issues. Second area to look into is the throttle position sensor and steeper motor. If these 2 are good your car will idle nice and smooth.

There are various procedures one needs to conduct using the fiat ecu scanner to refresh and re-calibrate the stepper motor position for smooth idling when you replace it.

Sharad should be knowing this. If he does not know got to wings auto and meet Anil Kamble. If thats too far for you meet Ravi in Bibwewadi.

[sarang.vaidya]

Originally Posted by amit_mechengg

If its a Palio 1.6 replace the crank position sensor. Adjust the gap perfectly as per the manual. This is the weakest sensor causing these kind of issues. Second area to look into is the throttle position sensor and steeper motor. If these 2 are good your car will idle nice and smooth.

There are various procedures one needs to conduct using the fiat ecu scanner to refresh and re-calibrate the stepper motor position for smooth idling when you replace it.

Sharad should be knowing this. If he does not know got to wings auto and meet Anil Kamble. If thats too far for you meet Ravi in Bibwewadi.

Thanks a ton amit_mechengg.
I was also thinking of taking it to Ravi but both of his earlier numbers seems to be out of reach. It would be nice if you could share Ravi's working number with me if you have.

[Emvi]

Fiat Palios are infamous for throttle body issues, both the 1.6 and the 1.2 versions.

Our Palio 1.6 GTX had throttle body issues, which made the car rev crazy on its own and driving in heavy traffic conditions was a nightmare. Got the throttle body cleaned a few times but the issue remained unsolved. On one such visit to the service center, while myself and the mechanic were on a test drive, the car stalled in the middle of the road and refused to come to life again. The car started only after the throttle sensor was replaced.

[Jeroen]

Whatever you do, don’t just start swapping stuff. On any car build in the last 25 years the first thing you do is plug in an OBD scanner and read the code. Preferably a brand/model specific OBD scanner.

Let’s see what error codes come up before doing anything. Only way to properly diagnose a problem.

Good luck

Jeroen

[gkveda]

Originally Posted by sarang.vaidya

Air Filter, fuel filters, spark plugs were replaced during the service.

By any chance, after service, did this issue crop up?

If yes, I doubt if wrong spark plugs are installed while replacing the sparkplugs.

Second major doubt is fuel adulteration and throttle cleaning or replacement.

Please focus on these issues and see if the problem is resolved

[CaptainBrijesh]

I am also facing rough idle in Maruti SX4 ZXI (Perrol). Tried everything from changing Ignition coils, Ignition Cables, Spark Plugs, Throttle body cleaning & Reset etc.

OBD scan doesn't show any errors at all. I face rough idle both on Petrol as well as CNG. Tried many FNGs as well as MASS but no one is able to pinpoint the issue. Head Gasket has been replaced before 12k kms. So far no issues regarding Engine over heating or anything except rough idle.

If someone can pinpoint a problem then it will be of much help to me.

Thanks in advance!

[comfortablynumb]

Originally Posted by sarang.vaidya

I was also thinking of taking it to Ravi but both of his earlier numbers seems to be out of reach.

Hi, "nine six zero seven five nine two three nine seven" is the number I have for Ravi, from a couple of years ago. Have you tried it already?

[CaptainBrijesh]

Originally Posted by CaptainBrijesh

I am also facing rough idle in Maruti SX4 ZXI (Perrol). Tried everything from changing Ignition coils, Ignition Cables, Spark Plugs, Throttle body cleaning & Reset etc.

If someone can pinpoint a problem then it will be of much help to me.

Thanks in advance!

While engine is cold there is no problem with the engine but once it starts warming up, idle starts to become rough. Overall i feel that engine is rough on higher speeds also.
Two times PUC results are as below:

Oxygen percentage in 1st PUC - 11% & 2nd PUC just before 2 months is 18%

Does it indicate Vacuum leak or Faulty O2 Sensor?
Really frustrated with this. Really appreciate any help.

[vrprabhu]

Originally Posted by amit_mechengg

If its a Palio 1.6 replace the crank position sensor...

Is the crank sensor of 1.6 different from rpm sensor of 1.2? (there is no listing of rpm sensor for 1.6 in 99rpm) - sidindica's input must the correct one then?

This (rpm sensor) is what I replaced in 1.2 petrol (cost approx ~1700 Rs.) -



And, this is what is listed in 99 rpm as crank position sensor for 1.6 -



(sorry about the picture quality - don't have a blown up image. You can check it out in ori parts here - https://oriparts.com/41/350/2049/657610 )

Originally Posted by sidindica

Inconsistent idling issues are common with 1.6 as the vehicle ages....

If the throttle body is thoroughly cleaned, it should resolve the issue. However, check the MAP sensor as well as the switch located behind the left side of the fan (near the headlight). Clean all these sensors thoroughly and while doing this, ensure that the battery is disconnected.

...The rpm sensor comes integrated with it ...

With regard to the first point, was thinking on the impact of BS6 fuel because of ethanol blending in petrol, resulting in residue buildup?

As regards the second point, would be of help if you could explain the function of MAP sensor (I am now facing a stranger issue - during morning cold starts, the engine rpm increases on its own i.e. without throttle inputs, as if the car is eager to attain normal operating quickly!)

The last point is just to get clarity on the post quoted above.

Thanks in advance, amit & sid!

[sarang.vaidya]

Originally Posted by Jeroen

Whatever you do, don’t just start swapping stuff. On any car build in the last 25 years the first thing you do is plug in an OBD scanner and read the code. Preferably a brand/model specific OBD scanner.

Let’s see what error codes come up before doing anything. Only way to properly diagnose a problem.

Good luck

Jeroen

Yes, I completely agree to this. But, Sharad did not have the scanner with him during the initial trouble shooting. He got it scanned from somewhere else and charged me 600/- on the bill.
I was planning to take the car to Ravi as I know he has a scanner. But his number is not reachable and driving the car in this condition for around 20Kms would be a task without having a confirmation on his availability.
It would be great if someone could confirm if he is still working from the same location post lockdown.

Originally Posted by gkveda

By any chance, after service, did this issue crop up?

If yes, I doubt if wrong spark plugs are installed while replacing the sparkplugs.

Second major doubt is fuel adulteration and throttle cleaning or replacement.

Please focus on these issues and see if the problem is resolved

I would be getting all of the above checked when I visit the technician.

Originally Posted by comfortablynumb

Hi, "nine six zero seven five nine two three nine seven" is the number I have for Ravi, from a couple of years ago. Have you tried it already?

I have this number and unfortunately its not working.
Thanks a ton to everyone for all the responses till now.