[vigneshg]

Hi all,

I write seeking your counsel on the concerning matter of my 2007 Maruti Zen Estilo LXi's problematic air conditioning unit.

In July 2019, about a year after I had relocated from Bangalore to Noida, the air-con in my Estilo stopped pumping in cool air. Assuming the NCR heat was somehow overwhelming it, I drove the car to the nearby authorised Maruti service centre (Rajesh & Anil Motor Co. in Sector 2, Noida). The service agent advised me to 'refill the coolant' in the air-con unit, and so I let him. The cost of this fix was about ₹1,200.

Episode #1
The air-con resumed cooling the cabin normally. However, a couple of weeks later, intermittent squeaking noises began to emanate from the bonnet; it sounded as if two moving parts were rubbing against each other every few minutes. This was accompanied by a drop in the engine's performance. It felt as though something was caught in the wheels and slowing the car down. It took me a while to figure out that the problem lay with the air-con: whenever I turned the air-con off, the sound (and the 'dragging' effect) disappeared altogether. In a matter of days, the sound became unbearable and the engine nearly stalled whenever I turned the air-con on.

This time, I visited a different authorised Maruti service centre (Rohan Motors, Sector 1, Noida). After an examination, the service agent informed me that the air-con compressor unit was fatally damaged and that I would have to replace the entire air-con kit. He added that any repairs to the compressor were not possible because, unlike the Maruti-repairable Subros compressor on the Wagon R, the Estilo employed an irreparable Delphi unit. Cursing my luck, I agreed to have the entire air-con kit replaced. This replacement set me back about ₹28,000. The new air-con unit worked as expected.

Episode #2
Earlier today, as I was returning from Agra to Noida, I heard the same squeaking noises from the bonnet. I could feel the mild 'dragging' effect as well. I had very nearly forgotten about the first episode (as I'd replaced the entire air-con kit), but there it was—clear as day—things were normal whenever I turned the air-con off.

By my understanding, a typical car air-con compressor lasts for about five years (if not longer). Mine appears to have failed in less than two years (with almost no usage in 2020). Besides, the air-con was not particularly a problem when I used the car in Bangalore (from 2013 to 2018). Do you have any idea what's causing the air-con to fail repeatedly? Also, can I expect Maruti to investigate the matter in detail? I'm not looking forward to shelling out another ₹28,000 for a new air-con kit.

Your advice will be most helpful.

Thanks,
Vignesh

[vigsom]

I am assuming the "service agents" did check the belt tension/condition of the belts and adjusted or replaced them too.

1. Squeaking noise is because of a bad belt with poor tension. Since you say that all is well when the AC is off, please have the main belt checked first. I think the Estilo has 2 belts - main for the engine, and auxiliary for the AC compressor. Please have both of them examined

2. Also, is your engine in good health? Because weak engines can croak under the load of an AC compressor.

3. In the first case, the AC compressor couldn't have failed, but now since that has been replaced , nothing can be done.

4. Please get the AC verified by an independent garage. There are some listings in Delhi and you could get the right reference from our own Dada @SS-Traveller.

5. Lastly, have they indeed replaced the compressor?

[vj_torqueaddict]

Mine appears to have failed in less than two years (with almost no usage in 2020)

I am no expert in this matter , but one thing I can certainly say is that an extended period of non usage of AC causes lot of problems. In fact many manuals do mention to switch on the AC at-least once a week, so that the fluids get properly circulated.

[vishy76]

You first need to determine which part of the compressor is failing. Is it:

- The compressor itself
- The compressor pulley

The latter is fairly easy to fix and diagnose. Get the serpentine belt checked for uneven wear and the compressor pulley to see if it's rotating freely under load. If not, it should be easy to fix.

The former is a bit tricky.

Had they changed the AC evaporator as well when they changed the air con kit? In case of a faulty compressor, it is always advisable to change the evaporator too as debris that has been shred from the compressor makes its way to the evaporator and circulates through the system.

If you install a new compressor, the debris will again destroy that too.

[HornNotOkPlease]

My 2 cents over here is when they changed the compressor did they run a leak test on the whole system and plumbing? My experience says as the car ages the system develops minor leaks which require annual gas recharge to maintain the compressor health provided the leaks are minor and holds the load over a considerable period. I have been doing this for the last two years on my 6 yrs old ~1Lkh Kms run Ritz and its enough to hold off the summer heat.

It might happen they just replaced the compressor and avoided checking the system for leaks, and over a period of time the gas might have run low enough to the point of eventually damaging your new compressor as well.

[ash22]

Had the exact same issue 2 months ago in my 2007 Alto.
I showed to my FNG and he adjusted the AC Belt to maintain the tension.
He didn't charge me anything and That fixed the issue.. I gave him 100 Rs but he refused.

Sorry that you had to replace the complete AC Unit which i feel is useless.

Once piece of advise - If your car of more than 5 years old, Never ever visit the authorized service center. That too for 15 year old vehicle, We are their jackpots.

[Zen2001]

Always visit a car AC specialist instead of MASS! Check out my experience here -

https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techn...ml#post3567616 (Zen and the art of maintaining it)

As mentioned earlier, if you had the need to replace a busted compressor, it would be mandatory to also replace the evaporator unit (expansion valve & cooling coil) AND flush out the whole circuit, leak test with nitrogen, refill compressor oil,, replace O rings and re adjust the belt tension on the AC pulley. A new compressor has no reason to give up so soon, even if u were driving in the desert.

[mrBenz]

Car compressors can fail by destroying itself and can lock the belt drive thereby causing the belt to squeal as the engine forces the belt to rotate on an already locked compressor belt pulley hence causing loud noises and in the case of low power engines like marutis also cause a dragging effect or stalling altogether.

Replacing a compressor is an expensive job. Not because the compressor is expensive but because you need to replace the whole kit. Remember when a compressor fails, tiny shards of metal are thrown around and this gets circulated all in the system. Unless you change all the major components in which this debris could be lodged there is no way you will have a properly running AC. As if you replace only the compressor, which your service center has done, the metal fragments will eventually make their way to the new compressor thereby destroying it over time and presenting the same problems and scenarios which you were dealing with to start with.

I suggest you take it to a service center which can spend time on your car and this type of jobs require technical expertise else they will never be sorted out correctly.

All the best

[vipul_singh]

There is a very good video by the Car Wizard explaining that in case of a compressor failure, the entire AC system (and not just the compressor) has to be replaced. Was this done on the Estilo? The total bill of 28k suggests to me that just the compressor was replaced. The Car Wizard even explains that AC system vendors would not honor the warranty on a compressor, unless the entire system was replaced. For simple components (like pipes), flushing is required if those are not being replaced.

Here is the video link:

https://youtu.be/uyGqIXuIsMc

[sandeepmohan]

Originally Posted by vigneshg

The service agent advised me to 'refill the coolant' in the air-con unit, and so I let him.

I assume he meant refrigerant and not engine coolant.

Car air conditioner compressors can last the life of the car. Failures are rare. When they do happen, its usually due to lack of internal lubrication, bearing failure which eventually leads to compressor seizure.

Going by the age of your car, I assume it has clocked over 100k kilometers. You should inspect the water pump and drive belts. Replace the rubber timing belt if it has never been done. Keep an eye on the engine temperature gauge. On your car, it should stay just below the half mark.

You need to look at a FNG or a Bosch garage. Proper diagnosis has not been done by Maruti Suzuki.

[1.2TSI7DSG]

The squeaking/drag effect is indicating a bearing failure. This can be because of the imbalance of the shaft/pulley connecting the compressor to the engine. Would advise to check the cause of the failure as the car is a good 14 year old car which may cause sags/bends in the mounting/alignments leading to imbalance.

[sagarpadaki]

The root cause of the problem is something else.

Just to clarify, the new compressor is working fine, right? The issue is that you are facing drag, power loss and intermittent squeaky noise?


For starters, open the bonnet when you have run the car for a while and with the engine running, observe all the pulleys. Observe for any bearing noise. Typically it will be a high frequency noise. See if there is a wobble/side ways movement with any of them. Second, see if the belt is skipping/hopping on any pulley. If yes, that could be the tensioner pulley. A worn pulley can put put more load on adjacent pulleys and can cause them to fail as well. The squeaky noise will come from worn accessory belt or a weak tensioner. If you have not changed the belt in last 5 to 6 years, change all of them. Typically there will be two - One for alternator and other for AC compressor. They are cheap. Check the tensioner as well and replace if needed.

[Tgo]

Did they fill the correct amount of lubricant when they filled in the circuit with refrigerant (gas)?

An AC compressor needs lubricant to run, it is a specific one and needs to be filled in the correct quantity. It is usually premixed in the refrigerant (gas) that is to be charged. That is why it is not advisable to keep the AC compressor running when you have a leak in the refrigerant circuit as the lubricant also leaks out leaving the compressor running dry.

We had a compressor seize on our Duster immediately after a dashboard removal job at the ASC. They might not have followed the correct procedure and we had to shell out INR 30k since the vehicle had run 130k km at that time and they said it is because of regular wear and tear.

[srini1785]

Originally Posted by vigneshg

Cursing my luck, I agreed to have the entire air-con kit replaced. This replacement set me back about ₹28,000. The new air-con unit worked as expected

Do you have the old unit or its junked?. Even photos of the old unit would do. I am reserving judgement till I see evidence.

[Jaggu]

Get the air conditioner checked at an independent specialist, again ensure you goto a place which is well recommended. Squeaking sound can be, loose belts, pulleys, or the compressor unit itself. Usually, the electromechanical clutch is the part that can fail inside the compressor.

How many kilometers since the replacement? More than the age it is the usage that matters since it is a moving part. Also, do ensure the right amount of ac refrigerant and lubrication oil is used at refill. Now there are shops with automated equipment for a refill, that can provide the right amount of refrigerant and oil.