Team-BHP (https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/)

-   Technical Stuff (https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/technical-stuff/)

-   -   Skoda Superb 1.8 TSI - Engine failure (as appraised by Skoda India) (https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/technical-stuff/230537-skoda-superb-1-8-tsi-engine-failure-appraised-skoda-india.html)

I have a 2010 model Skoda Superb. The vehicle has had a mechatronics failure at 15000 Kms in Aug 2011 and a second mechatronics failure in 2016 at around 54,000 Kms.

On Nov 16, 2020 – When I started the car in the morning in my apartment basement, the vehicle was cranking but not starting. Ignition was coming on and was able to move the gear lever. No warning / fault light came on or lit up. No warning alarm either. Called Skoda and the service engineer who came, ran the diagnostics multiple times. After a few times he informed that it seemed like a starter issue and the car would need to be brought to the workshop.

The car was towed to TAFE on Nov 20 and after than no update from them. After about 4 days when I asked the service manager for an update – I was informed by whatsapp -”Engine overhauling has to be done. Engine failed”. At this point I asked the service manager how can the engine just fail given that the car was serviced just 2 months back and I would require a full technical analysis, explanation and report for the same.

I then wrote to Skoda India and promptly received a call from a lady from the office of the Head of service and marketing. She assured that they would look into the issue and take it up with the service centre the next day.

The next day I received a call from the GM Service at the service centre asking for permission to open the engine to ascertain the fault. Now they were saying that it seemed like and engine failure but not yet confirmed if that was the case. I asked them to provide a full analysis based on their diagnosis and a report of why the engine failed. He also confirmed that he had checked the service history and the vehicle was impeccably maintained and serviced as per set manufacturer norms.

Few pertinent points that I raised to them:

The vehicle was last serviced on Sep 3-4, 2020 at TAFE. Km reading at the time was 97278. This was just 2 months prior to the engine failure. They had supposedly done a full 10th year service and inspection.

On Sep 5, the day after the car came back from service, while I was driving I got an engine oil pressure warning which flashed for a few seconds with an alarm and then disappeared. I pulled over to the side and immediately called the service engineer. My first query to him was that the vehicle had just been serviced the previous day and 4.6 ltrs of oil has been filled, so how is it possible to get a low engine oil pressure warning? He said that there could be a sensor issue sometimes and asked me to top up the engine oil. I topped up approx. 600-700 ml of shell helix ultra. The light warning did not return post that. I then got the service centre to send the mechanic on Monday Sep 7 to check the vehicle and he confirmed that there was nothing wrong with the vehicle. This in hindsight seems very telling and the service engineer / centre should have called the vehicle back in for a full recheck given the serious nature and timing of the warning.

I have driven approx. 2000 kms post that till the current supposed engine failure issue and have had no warning lights come on. Even when the car did not start – there is no warning / fault light that is displayed.

Prior to this the car was serviced and underwent repairs including for an engine oil leak and parts were replaced thereof and invoiced. This was in April 2019. Km reading at the time was 89980.

So the pertinent point is that if the vehicle was serviced just two months back and also addressed for an engine oil leak in the last year, how can the engine just fail?

I did not hear from the service centre post this and when I mailed the lady at Skoda India she stated that the dealer would communicate with me on this. I also requested skoda, given the long standing relationship (we own two superbs since 2010 and 2012) with the brand and the fact that the vehicle has had two mechatronics failures, they should support on addressing the repair and replacement for what was a serious issue like an engine failure. This definitely is not a wear and tear item and definitely not a routine issue. I then received an estimate for the dealer for an engine replacement with a 20% discount which still came to 5.85 Lacs with taxes. I spoke to the dealer and said this was unacceptable from Skoda India given the serious nature of the issue. Would expect the brand to take more accountability. I wrote to Skoda India again stating their stance and response on this issue was just not acceptable. No proper explanation or report for the failure of the engine and just an estimate for engine replacement. This seemed ridiculous.

I received a reply from the lady at Skoda India still with no specifc reason for the engine failure but with frivolous statements among others – quote’’ we request your understanding that the vehicle is in its 10th year of running with 99,291 KMS and the recommendations given are based on technical facts and findings and we always try to maintain transparency with our customers. The same was initiated in your case too. The periodic service conducted on Sep 3,2020 and the current findings are not related. We wish to apprise you that the findings of the workshop are as per the set guidelines’’ Unquote. She also specifically maintained that Skoda cannot take any further cost on the repair and replacement. Her mail and statement just seem like hogwash with no concrete finding or explanation.

I have now refuted her mail asking if she means- an engine failure as stated by her is routine for a vehicle that has run this mileage of 99,000 kms? Or is she stating this is the life of a Skoda engine? Also, what are the technical facts that she is referring to? I have also asked her to provide a detailed report and analysis for the so called engine failure. The reference to the service was that the vehicle had undergone a thorough so called 10th year service just two months prior to this failure. There was also a specific instruction to check for any oil leakage. This was because the vehicle was repaired for an ‘’oil leak’’ in 2019 and parts related to the same were replaced by the Skoda service centre.

Hence the point being raised to Skoda India as well - is that there were no red flags or warning indicators picked up by their diagnostics or service / technical advisors during the 10th year service. In fact, the confirmations from them were that the vehicle was fine and in perfect condition. Hence, a sudden failure two months down the line is indeed alarming and a serious issue and definitely warrants a more serious and thorough response.

This is currently where this lies. The vehicle is in the service centre. All I have received from Skoda is an estimate for an engine change with no explanation or reason for a serious issue like an engine failure. They also do not seem to take any cognisance or accountability for something as grave as a complete engine failure for their top end model sold in this country. Neither is there any regard given to brand loyalty to a customer who has two of their top end models. Extremely frustrating and sorry state of affairs which I am unfortunately caught up in with Skoda India.

If it cranks, how can it be a starter motor issue
Did he check for spark and fuel?

What is the case of failure?

.

So they say "overhauling" without opening the engine?


Despite that - trying to get goodwill on a 10 year old car will be difficult


Did you simply pour oil or did you check level first?



So it is possible, the car had been slightly underfllled, you added over 10% more so it could have been overfilled. The 2000 km burnt the oil out

How?



Was there a visible leak or high oi consumption?
.

Not worth it, find a used engine or scrap it

Skoda will not be interested in a 10 year old car. However, it is import to know the cause of failure


Okay, the engine is cranking, if there was no oil, it would have seized.
Find out how much oil is in the engine and the colour of it?
Ask them to do a compression

Am guessing as there is no overheating and only excessive oil consumption , it could be:

Defective fuel system
Excess cylinder bore wear - compression test would show this up
Faulty ignition

Get a second diagnosis. There are many Skoda specialists in your city. The usual SOP of service centers is to not investigate the root cause and then defend the wrong diagnosis by a series of self aggrandized executives.

Also, cars at 100k kilometers get sold with warranty in countries with harsher conditions. This notion in India that a car needs replacement after 100k kilometers is not right. 100k miles is considered low mileage in many cout ries, and it applies to skoda cars as well.

It cranks but did not start, it had an oil leakage or oil consumption issue in the past and it's nearing 100K kms.

Is it the timing chain?

I have asked them to share a proper Report and diagnosis. Thank you for your comments and advise .. very helpful. Let’s see what they have to say. Am just irritated with their generic response on this whole issue. The service guy mentioned in a conversation that the timing chain probably has jumped causing damage? I’m not too familiar with that - is it possible

Agree on this notion that 100k kms is a lot of mileage. And a supposed engine failure put down to number of kms as per Skoda is just not acceptable.. they have to give the cause of failure. Have they figured and it leads to a lapse at the service or previous repair? Probably... hence the apprehension..
Any pointers or leads to these technicians you mention. Would I be able to get them to evaluate the vehicle while it’s at the service centre ?

Well it went for a full check up just 2 months prior. Also one of the specific instructions was to check for oil leakage. I had asked for that because it had been rectified for oil leakage in 2019. So if they’ve serviced and checked the same ... ???
The service guy did mention on the phone that the timing chain had jumped ... is that common and possible ? For a car that’s services regularly and 2 months prior to the incident had undergone Skoda’s 10th year service and check up!

That’s what I am intending. Woudnt Make any sense spending 6 lacs on a car that probably has a 4-5 lac resale value. Also spending 6 lacs and have to depend and implicitly trust the shoddy Skoda service reps .. that would t give any peace of mind for 6 lac spend !!!

Might be a scam to offer you 2 Lakhs for the metal, repair for 1 Lakh(or less) and sell on for Rs 5 Lakh

Have a read through this .

Link to TBHP thread

The tensioners are hydraulic and prone to failure especially if there has been any oil related problems.

As the risk of repeating myself -

https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/inter...ml#post4924230

https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techn...ml#post4946755

Let this be a bitter lesson for you on why not to buy German vehicles, if you’re after long term, peace of mind ownership.

The EA888 family of engines are one of the worst on the planet. Just do a simple google search. Let’s not even get started on the DSG which failed you at 15,000kms.

So my question on the timing chain jumping? Why would this happen. I mean they would have checked all of this in the 10th year service just two months prior.
There has to be a reason for this because as far as I know - it is not a very common occurrence

As soon as I saw the thread I was 99% convinced this was the issue.

It will not come in the checkup. Period. The Tensioner for 1.8 Tsi engines from 2009 to 2011 are prone to failure. It can happen anytime. This is an issue all over the world. Post 2011 the tensioner was fixed and it is recommended world over to get it changed. Its a ticking time bomb. I got it changed proactively in my Laura Tsi as well and I recommend the same to anyone I know who owns a 1.8TSI of similar vintage. Skoda had given an estimate of 81k for changing the entire timing kit, however I got it done outside (Bosch Service Center, Hoodi, Whitefield) for 20-25k using a Borsehung kit. Sadly in your case, if it's a failed tensioner, it will require an engine rebuild. Nothing can be done about it. Get an estimate from Bay6 and Bosch as well. it should be done for much lower.

Thanks so much for this. Do you by any chance have any contact details for these

If the car had given a 'Low Oil Pressure' warning, then it does not mean the oil level is low. It's possible that the oil pump which is driven by the chain is not developing enough pressure and might have caused the engine to seize due to oil starvation over a period of time, in this case the engine will not turn with the starter. If the starter was turning and not starting, then possibly the timing chain has given way.

@maverick_driver: Insist on a detailed report for cause of engine failure.

Sorry noob question :What exactly is a timing chain jumping?.

Generally, the OHC is driven by a timing chain with sprockets on OHC and the crank shafts. Again this is from my bike experience. May be different for a car. Even then how does a timing chain failiure lead to " Engine failiure ". All you need to do to replace the chain , or in most cases the entire kit , that mean both sprockets , the OHC , timing chain and be done with it. For a high end car its around 80k-90k. I fail to understand the 5.8L estimate.


When you don't know the root cause , you make generic statements.

See this video by The Humble Mechanic who has made several videos on this issue. Also, note that this video is from 2015.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=qAdSyBRHOPs

Last and final noob question : Why don't you do what bikers do in such cases. Just remove two /three links in the chain and forget the tensioner. :)