[RaceHorse]

All these discussions about platforms and safety leading me to think about cancelling my Sonet booking
and look for something like Polo AT which is proven to be safer, all I need is a sub4 meter AT car with TC box and good suspension.

[Aditya]

Understanding car platforms, starting with the Kia Sonet - Posts moved to a new thread.

[theAutomaniac]

Originally Posted by RSR

It's Time To Bust A Pair Of Mighty Myths

Hey RSR, I really appreciate your knowledge on how Hyundai India has not based it's crossovers on the Santro platform. And since I feel you seem to be amongst the most highly knowledgeable about Hyundai India's products, I guess you are the right person to get a proper clarification from, for a doubt of mine!

Recently, I came across this Rushlane article (Link) which talks about how the Hyundai HB20 was rated 4 stars in 2019 and the same car wasn't able to score even a proper 1 star rating when re-tested a few weeks ago.

Yes, I know that the HB20 is based on the older i20's PB platform and is not related to the current or upcoming i20 in any sense whatsoever.

However, since Hyundai Brasil has done such a suspicious tactic, my question is, whether Hyundai India has done the same to the Venue and Sonet's K2 platform in order to price them competitively? I mean, no Hyundai has ever passed a crash test in India with a good score and Hyundai India never mentions a thing about the safety aspect of their cars, so it can be expected from them, can it be?

P.S.- Not a 'rabid Hyundai hater' as you mentioned in your previous post, just a curious newbie!

[theAutomaniac]

Originally Posted by Seenz

Respected BHPian @RSR with his brilliant investigative & analytical skills and extreme hard work and dedication has 'smashed to smithereens' both the mighty myths of Venue developed on the Santro K1 platform and Indian and International Venue being developed on the same platform. Now myself being a snarky and sarcastic fellow, information does not enter my brain as nicely as other technically qualified BHPians. So I will stick to asking some foolish and non sensical questions (Trust me, I am genuinely curious):-
Regards.

Hii from another genuinely curious newbie!
I did almost believed his post and trashed my thoughts of not trusting a company for safety that does not make any clarifications of the platforms, safety etc. of their cars and instead I actually thought that maybe they are trustworthy.

I mean, Maruti cars are actually quite trolled for being unsafe and the 'heartect' being the most abused car platform to ever exist. But that didn't make them shy away from making a separate column on their website for the platforms their cars are based on.
Which makes me wonder, if a so called 'tin-can' manufacturer is transparent enough to show the trending information, why not a 'premium car' manufacturer! That's extremely suspicious!!!

Your post was actually quite helpful! Thanks.

[nasa_hubble]

Just read another thread on Hyundai Crash Tests. Eye Opener.

Same platform or otherwise, Crash Test ratings are telling a different story.

Request Mods to put a disclaimer at the start of this thread to not treat this thread as gospel truth. Thanks!

[aaggoswami]

Originally Posted by RSR

Mighty MYTH number 1: Venue & Sonet are built on the Santro platform
Simple FACT: Venue & Sonet have got absolutely nothing, nil, nada to do with the Santro platform. The large 1.5 U2 CRDi simply cannot be accomodated into the small Santro platform!
Mighty MYTH number 2: Indian Venue is built on a completely different platform compared to the global Venue
Simple FACT: Indian Venue (QXi) and international Venue (QX) are built on the same platform!

Brilliant, exceptional research ! Thanks for putting up such informative thread here. Cant Thank You enough.
From the images I guess that two things will impact safety ratings and stability of body shell :
1. Strength of Steel used
2. Welds

In case of second generation Swift, both international and Indian models were sharing platform, but had very different crash ratings. Its highly probable that same goes for international Venue and Indian Venue. The layout or architecture might be same but quality of steel and welds might vary to negatively impact safety ratings. The crash test results from today are indicating that both, Santro and Grand i10 Nios got same ratings. If new i20 is based on Santro platform, I guess it will be similar ? Or may be Hyundai uses better steel and/or welds ? Third generation Swift and Baleno are based on same platform, but Swift scores 2/5 while Baleno gets 3/5. Am hoping for the new i20, already priced higher than rivals, to atleast get 4/5.

Is is possible for you to share such details about Tata Tiago and Altroz ?

[theAutomaniac]

Originally Posted by RSR

Ah! It clearly looks like the K2 platform is shared by the Creta, Elantra, Verna & Venue! Oh my God! The insides of the rabid haters of Hyundai would be absolutely burning up uncontrollably now, since the object of their blind, rabid hate has been proven to be built on the superior Verna K2 platform that is also shared with the Elantra!!!

So, dear respected BHPian RSR, since the 'mighty myths' busted by you claim that the Venue(Consequently Sonet as well), Verna, Elantra, Creta are based on the same "superior" K2 platform shared with the Seltos.

Going on the same lines, can we assume that the likes of the Venue, Verna, Creta, Sonet and even the Elantra are also tincans, considering they are based on the same "superior" K2 platform as the tincan Seltos?

[RSR]

I reply only to genuine queries and discuss things only with serious BHPians and true auto enthusiasts.

Cheap comments, those of sub-standard quality (like those on YouTube) and those that exemplify low quality trolling are put on my ignore list.

It's certainly not beyond me to reply to cheap, low quality junk comments with crap of my own, but I'm too busy to waste my time on trolls.

Originally Posted by aaggoswami

Brilliant, exceptional research ! Thanks for putting up such informative thread here. Cant Thank You enough.

You're welcome.

From the images I guess that two things will impact safety ratings and stability of body shell :
1. Strength of Steel used
2. Welds

Actually, loads of things impact safety ratings. Strength of steel and number & quality of welds are certainly two of 'em. There are many other factors as well.

In case of second generation Swift, both international and Indian models were sharing platform, but had very different crash ratings.

In such a case, there is no doubt that the Indian version was compromised in certain aspects. It could be the strength of steel, could be the number of welds, could be other things too, or any combination of the above.

Its highly probable that same goes for international Venue and Indian Venue. The layout or architecture might be same but quality of steel and welds might vary to negatively impact safety ratings.

I hope you read my entire original post, because I've described there the differences in the strength of steel of certain members between the QX and QXi. Yes, there are differences between the two even if they are based on the same platform.

As for the safety rating, only a Global NCAP test can provide one for the Indian Venue.

If new i20 is based on Santro platform, I guess it will be similar?

New i20 is not and cannot be built on the K1 platform.

The Santro K1 platform is not only too small for a car of the i20's dimensions, the large 1.5 U2 CRDi engine also simply cannot be accommodated into the K1 platform!

The new i20 for India is built on the K2 platform.

Third generation Swift and Baleno are based on same platform, but Swift scores 2/5 while Baleno gets 3/5.

Has the Indian Baleno or Glanza been crash tested by Global NCAP. I don't think so.

The crash test rating of European Baleno or Japanese Baleno is not applicable to the Indian one, just like the crash test rating of the Aussie Venue is not applicable to the Indian one.

The Indian Ertiga/XL6, Baleno, DZire, Swift, Ignis, Wagon R and S-Presso are all based on the Heartect platform according to the company itself. The company website also includes the S-Cross in this Heartect platform list.

The Ertiga got 3* for adult occupant safety. Both, the Swift and Wagon R got 2* for adult occupant protection and the S-Presso scored a big fat duck or 0* for adult occupant protection. All four are built on the same Heartect platform.

There is no such thing as a safety rating for a platform. There are safety ratings for individual cars. This is what we can conclude from Maruti Suzuki's Heartect platform cars.

Is is possible for you to share such details about Tata Tiago and Altroz ?

Unfortunately, I cannot, because I don't have access to such information for Tata.

[Turbanator]

Originally Posted by RSR

I reply only to genuine queries
I don't have access to such information for Tata.

What are your views about the hot thread on crash ratings for Seltos? Are you aware if Seltos shares its platform with any of products from Hyundai India? Do you think Hyundai India products (chassis in this case) differ from similar models of Kia India?

Originally Posted by RSR

My views on the Seltos crash test rating? It is what it is. What do I have to say? You'll note that there is no Kia vehicle in the post (the title is slightly off, as it's mainly about the Hyundai Venue instead of Kia Sonet), as I don't have access to Kia technical diagrams.

Yes, your thread title got me confused and despite reading twice, I could not make out Kia/ Hyundai relation as you mentioned on the title. If you don't have access to Kia info, then kindly ignore my Question. The reason of my asking was to find out similarities or differences between the two based on your research.

[RSR]

Originally Posted by Turbanator

What are your views about the hot thread on crash ratings for Seltos? Are you aware if Seltos shares its platform with any of products from Hyundai India? Do you think Hyundai India products (chassis in this case) differ from similar models of Kia India?

My views on the Seltos crash test rating? It is what it is. What do I have to say? Everything is there on the Global-NCAP website.

I've shared the chassis diagrams for Hyundai vehicles in the first post. You'll note that there is no Kia vehicle in the post (the title is slightly off, as the post is mainly about the Hyundai Venue instead of Kia Sonet), as I don't have access to Kia technical diagrams. I'll look around to see if I can get my hands on those.

Unless I take a close look at the Kia vehicle monocoques and compare them to their corresponding cousins from Hyundai, I cannot say anything conclusively. As I mentioned, let me see if I can get access to Kia's monocoque diagrams in order to compare the two.

Better still would be for Global-NCAP to test those models and release the results, but we know Global-NCAP is very slow and tests only a few Indian cars a year.

[Turbanator]

Originally Posted by RSR

I don't have access to Kia technical diagrams.

If you don't have access to Kia info, can I ask you the reason of mentioning this? Sonet is a Kia product if I am not mistaken.

Mighty MYTH number 1: Venue & Sonet are built on the Santro platform

[RSR]

Originally Posted by Turbanator

If you don't have access to Kia info, can I ask you the reason of mentioning this? Sonet is a Kia product if I am not mistaken.

I mentioned it because the Sonet cannot be built on the Santro K1 platform!

The K1 platform is too small to accomodate the large 1.5 U2 CRDi engine found on the diesel versions of the Kia Sonet.

Yes, your thread title got me confused and despite reading twice, I could not make out Kia/ Hyundai relation as you mentioned on the title.

Actually, I didn't start this thread at all. All the posts were moved here from another thread, and I didn't choose the title for this one.

[motorworks]

Originally Posted by RSR

Yes, they do publish it on their special service website for independent repairers. It's called Global Service Way and access to the site is charged by the time one wants to spend.

The site is a huge treasure trove of information on all Hyundai models sold across the globe for the last two decades or so. Since First World countries require it by law for manufacturers to provide service manuals and other such information to independent garages to work on their cars, the site is quite popular in Europe, America and elsewhere. I don't know if independent garages in India use this treasure trove as much as those abroad.



The platform of the QXi is the same as that of the QX, but there is a difference in the strength of steel used for some members. I've explained this in my original post.

So, the safety rating of the American or Australian Venue is not applicable to the Indian model. The Indian model's safety rating can only be determined after a test by Global NCAP.

Hey, Great work! This is the kind of information that should be available to all potential buyers especially when there are no legal requirements for crash testing in India!

Also, im curious on one aspect though. Have the newer generation of Hyundais and Kias in India become worse than the earlier ones? I ask this because the 1st Gen Creta in India had. 4 star Latin NCAP rating, I know it wasnt directly picked from the Indian market, but it was a Creta made in india, and it did look like we got the same variant. So if the first Gen Creta got a 4 star rating and the 2nd Gen Seltos is barely touching 3, then have Hyundai and Kia further compromised on the quality of materials they used or even the way they engineered the car? Would you by any chance have access to the 1st Gen Creta schematics and then we compare it with the current Seltos and the 2020 Creta?

[RSR]

Originally Posted by motorworks

Hey, Great work!

Thank you!

when there are no legal requirements for crash testing in India!

This isn't correct. Since late last year, all cars sold in India have to meet crash test requirements in the newly introduced BNVSAP program.

BNVSAP follows the global minimum legal requirement protocols of crash safety, namely the UN ECE R95 (at 56 kmph) and UN ECE R94. Cars that don't meet these minimum standards are not allowed to be sold to the public in India. According to UN ECE R95, the 40% frontal offset crash test is conducted at 56 kmph, when compared to Global-NCAP's 64 kmph.

Also, im curious on one aspect though. Have the newer generation of Hyundais and Kias in India become worse than the earlier ones? I ask this because the 1st Gen Creta in India had. 4 star Latin NCAP rating, I know it wasnt directly picked from the Indian market, but it was a Creta made in india, and it did look like we got the same variant. So if the first Gen Creta got a 4 star rating and the 2nd Gen Seltos is barely touching 3, then have Hyundai and Kia further compromised on the quality of materials they used or even the way they engineered the car? Would you by any chance have access to the 1st Gen Creta schematics and then we compare it with the current Seltos and the 2020 Creta?

Please don't go by the Indian Seltos' Global-NCAP rating and assume the 2nd generation Creta will have the same.

The Creta and Seltos are not badge-engineered versions of each other. Apart from the engines, transmissions and related components, nothing is common between the two.

Not only are the "top hats" of the Seltos and Creta different, even the platforms they're built on have quite a lot of differences. The same is applicable to the Sonet and Venue.

If you ask a rabid hater of Hyundai, he/she will tell you that the 2nd generation Creta will fare worse than the Seltos. It's something they say out of blind, rabid hatred and jealousy, and not based on facts or any indication from Global-NCAP.

Unlike them, I will not speculate on the Global-NCAP rating of any car that is yet to be tested. It's extremely foolish to do so.

As far as the platforms are concerned, there are a lot of differences between the 2nd generation Creta and Indian Seltos. From what I've seen, the 2nd generation Creta appears to be built on an improved version of the 1st generation Creta's platform {which itself is a slightly modified Elantra (MD) platform}.

Despite saying the above, I simply refuse to speculate on the Global-NCAP rating for the 2nd generation Creta. Wait for the test to be conducted to know its rating.

[S15]

This thread died all of a sudden. Just wondering what conclusion did we reach at?
Is the 4-star rating applicable to India? (I guess not, but still)

@ RSR

Perhaps the only car that's sold both in India, as well as the USA, dimensions unchanged, is the Verna (called accent abroad)
Could we please have a comparo on these two?

That is pretty much my last hope from Hyundai.