[itsashishsharma]

Originally Posted by Tojo_GotBhp

Ofc, the difference in strength of the steel would have substantial affect on the safety standards. But, the main point to be noted is that the Venue is definitely not based on the Santro's K1 platform as several auto portals claim to!

Thanks for addressing my misconception. But since some other Hyundai models (I am sure of i20 at least) got a different safety rating for the made and sold in India version than the one sold in Australia/Europe, I believe Hyundai/Kia must send their Indian models to NCAP and release the test report. On the other hand, cars like Nexon, XUV 300 are solely made and sold in India cars, no doubt about their Indian/Foreign versions.
As a trend, I have observed that it is mostly the people who are buying their first cars that are easily lured by features and looks, it becomes even a bigger responsibility for people who know better to keep focus on the more important aspects of a car.

[Tojo_GotBhp]

Originally Posted by itsashishsharma

Thanks for addressing my misconception. But since some other Hyundai models (I am sure of i20 at least) got a different safety rating for the made and sold in India version than the one sold in Australia/Europe, I believe Hyundai/Kia must send their Indian models to NCAP and release the test report.

Absolutely sir! Your point is correct. There is definitely cost cutting in the current gen i20 and Verna as well.

With the 1st Gen and facelifted i20, Hyundai had the exact same model for India as well as export markets. This was evident with the top class safety features that were standard and all-wheel disc brakes. The 2nd Gen however came with disc brakes only on front. Even the 2nd Gen Verna had disc brakes on all 4 wheels which was removed in the 4S Verna.

Regarding the outer body strength, I don't think much has been compromised and Hyundai's are still well built when compared to direct competitors. But, deep down structural rigidity is something that's open to debate and can be proven only when they undergo NCAP testing.

The features and bling has definitely been an influential factor for most of the buyers these days, and especially among the first time buyers. However, a small shift is seen with public (though a small proportionate) weighing safety factor too.

[airbus]

Originally Posted by itsashishsharma

On the other hand, cars like Nexon, XUV 300 are solely made and sold in India cars, no doubt about their Indian/Foreign versions.
As a trend, I have observed that it is mostly the people who are buying their first cars that are easily lured by features and looks

Majority of Indian car buyers are not keeping safety as their top priority and attracted to fancy features, fuel efficiency, etc. Manufacturers are taking advantage of the same.

High time for us as customer to ask the question kitna safe hai along with kitna deti hai.

[Seenz]

Respected BHPian @RSR with his brilliant investigative & analytical skills and extreme hard work and dedication has 'smashed to smithereens' both the mighty myths of Venue developed on the Santro K1 platform and Indian and International Venue being developed on the same platform. Now myself being a snarky and sarcastic fellow, information does not enter my brain as nicely as other technically qualified BHPians. So I will stick to asking some foolish and non sensical questions (Trust me, I am genuinely curious):-

• So the Hyundai Venue and Kia Sonet seem to have made a massive upgrade from being based on K1 platform to K2 platform (sorry to be specific QXi platform). Seeing the structural members (high strength steel) in the image of monocoque structure of the QXi Venue, I wonder "how many of these structural members are exactly present in the Indian Venue manufactured in India or whether it just depends on Hyundai feeling generous on that particular day". You see I am a paranoid guy and I have been haunted by the pics (comparison of underbody of old Ertiga and New XL6) shared by D-BHPian Leoshashi in the end of his post in his 5 star rated ownership thread. It is totally different matter that New Ertiga or its premium counterpart XL6 has scored ground breaking 3 stars in Global NCAP crash test with bodyshell rated as unstable. Further some BHPians with elephant memory might remember Ford deleting the K-Truss member from the Endeavour and giving utter silent treatment to all the hues and cries on Team-BHP thread. I request all the BHPians bashing Toyota's statement about taxes to please go through this Ford Endeavour thread. (Pics: Chassis of Indian Ford Endeavour has less support than the international version!)
  
  Well, here are the pics of Ertigas for your viewing pleasure (I hope D-BHPian Leoshashi does not mind):-
  
  Both Ertigas on Lift
  
  
  New Ertiga with advanced high strength steel Heartect platform
  
  
  And now the star of the show Old Ertiga whose structural members seem to have gone on a strike
  
  
  
  
• I joined Team-BHP just this year, however I am following Team-BHP from 2011 and might have read near about every thread on Team-BHP. Many BHPians used to write on seeing the accidental pics of Swift and Baleno or Ertiga that these cars have high strength steel in their structure and they are meant to crumble like that in case of a crash to save lives of their occupants. Maruti cars in their opinion should not be asked to behave like Ambassador or Mahindra Jeep which can transfer all the energy of the impact directly to the passengers. Fair enough. Now that I have got the chance to ask this silly question of mine "The crumple zone in Maruti cars extended or may be still extends till where? Are the driver and passenger included in the crumple zone? Does the crumple zone extends till B pillar or C pillar?" I have completed my graduation from Faridabad. We were 100 students in our batch, however only 97 were able to complete their graduation. Now you ask what happened to 3 students. Well they crashed in a parked truck on the Delhi-Rohtak highway. The car they were travelling in was the premium Hyundai i10. Driver and front passenger were dead on the spot of accident. Those fools might not have any idea about the expanse of the crumple zone in their car. Third person who was sitting on the back seat was carried to PGIMS Rohtak in serious condition. I was not present in Rohtak at that time, so I hurriedly called my brother and his friend to reach hospital ASAP as blood may be required. After returning home next day, what my brother told me still sends chills down my spine. The gear knob of the slick shifting finger light gearbox of i10 was lodged in the chest of my classmate. Sadly, he lost his life after struggling for 2 days. What a waste of life of bright students and ruining of their parents' dreams.
  
  
• I have been amazed and awed by the remarkable and stupendous success of Hyundai Santro, Hyundai Grand i10, Hyundai Eon, and surprisingly the darling of premium hatchback lovers Hyundai Elite i20 in Global NCAP crash tests where they have scored less than 3 stars with bodyshell being unstable. I am seriously impressed by the consistent and premium experience philosophy adopted by Hyundai even in the crash tests. They have maintained a consistent experience for everyone regardless of the money the buyer spent on buying the car. And then we have the king of inconsistent experiences, Tata Motors. These buggers had the gall to send unit after units of Zest to Global NCAP till they awarded 4 stars to Zest. Nexon initially scored 4 stars in Global NCAP crash test, but no Tata had to maintain an image of inconsistent experience, they finally relented after being awarded 5 stars for Nexon. Even Tiago scored 4 stars (starting price 4.69L ex showroom). However, inconsistency still remains, why Tiago could not score 5 stars.
  
• I wonder what is stopping Hyundai from sending Venue for Global NCAP testing. May be the transportation costs are too high and I can just imagine the huge amount of handling charges for such a large distance. The car definitely is a crash worthy product as visualized from the crash tests of the QX Venue in the Australian NCAP. I don't have any doubts about the Australian Venue being the same as Indian Venue. Therefore, at my level as a good citizen of India, I want to help Hyundai establish the crash worthiness of their car. I am thinking about starting a fund raising campaign to collect money to help build a concrete wall just outside Hyundai or Kia premises. Hyundai can slam their Venue in the wall and get done with it. Just imagine the transport cost savings and Ta-da no handling charges. I know, you can all thank me later for such a genius idea.
  
  
• I wonder how all Maruti Suzuki cars from S-Presso to S Cross are all based on the Heartect platform. Well it is Maruti Suzuki speak, my opinion is different. Further I take no guarantee for the superb high quality informative content you will find on this link of Maruti Suzuki website. Read at your own risk, you may end up laughing loudly. You have been warned. Now my non-sense question is "Can the 1.3 MJD or K12 petrol or Maruti's own 1.5L diesel engine or according to Maruti's infinite wisdom 1.6 MJD can be incorporated in the engine bay of S-presso or not?" All these cars are based on the same Heartect platform. Even Ignis used to come with 1.3L MJD. Yes I know that this is a modular platform blah blah and if your day is going good, you may even be able to fit a truck engine in that engine bay. Now dear BHPians pray tell me if the 1.4L U2 Crdi and 1.5L U2 Crdi of Hyundai are some gigantic marine engines that they will not able to fit inside the engine bay of Santro or Grand i10 Nios? Whether 1.2L U2 Crdi 3 cylinder diesel engine is half the size of 1.4L U2 Crdi or it may be a miniature engine that can fit in the Nios Engine bay. I am also anxious to know when and in which car 1.4L U2 Crdi diesel engine of Hyundai generated 75 PS of power. There is a term called product differentiation. 1.4L diesel used to be available in i20, Verna and Creta. If it would have also come in Grand i10, how would the Creta buyer feel? Unless you would like to say that Naah this K1 santro platform is not modular and just can not be extended or modified. Well in that case, I find Hyundai a technologically backward company that they have not developed a modular platform. I remember there was talk being that Brio will not able to accommodate the 1.5L petrol or 1.5L diesel engine of Honda. Well search for BHPian Frankmehta's thread on plug and play nature of installing 1.5L city petrol engine in Brio. He called his Brio a "Crio".
  
  
• I am really touched by this overwhelming love Hyundai has been showing the Indian market by developing products specific to the Indian market and making the global debut of cars in India. They have gone to great lengths to suit the products to Indian market tastes. If you are someone who has an eye for attention to detail, which Hyundai is famous for, you would have noticed that they have named the platforms for India as QXi, HCi and SU2i for Venue, Elantra and Creta. While without 'i' in platform names are for international variants i.e. QX, HC and SU2. Now they have left the choice upto you what you would like to have meaning of 'i' in the end of platform names. You can call it Indian, Innovative or even Idiot. Atleast I am not going to judge you. Back to my silly doubts and questions "The Indian Venue is 3995 mm long, American Venue is 4040 mm long". I have always wondered if those American guys will install kitchen sink or something like that in 45 mm more space. Well, I don't know, I have never been an American Guy in my life. I am just wondering here why Hyundai is showing special love sometime to Indians and sometimes to other International markets. (HC sedan length 4385 mm, HCi sedan length 4440 mm) Further in their infinite wisdom, Hyundai India has stopped specifying curb weight of their cars. This is because some third world car buyers like Indians used to compare weight of Indian cars and their international counterparts. I am already proud of these guys.
  
  
• Some car publications like "car and bike", from NDTV group have been publishing about Venue and Sonet based on the Santro K1 platform. If Hyundai had been that hurt by these posts, they would have moved hell and earth to remove that article from Internet. They would have sued the hell out of everyone who said Venue and Sonet are based on K1 Santro platform. Well as they say people who live in glass houses should not throw stones at others. I understand this point of view, that there is no official communication from Hyundai about Indian cars based on K1 or K2 platforms. These explanations may be buried in the text released with technical specifications during the media drives. And on this basis various car publications may have published their news about K1 platform being used for Santro, Grand i10 Nios, upcoming i20, Hyundai Venue and Kia Sonet. If their news would have been incorrect, Hyundai India would have sued the hell out of them for defamation.
  
  
• Hyundai is playing the game of “We neither confirm nor deny any information related to this matter”. I request you to read between the lines here. Hyundai Venue manufactured in South Korea scored 4 stars in Australian NCAP crash test. Do you see anywhere Hyundai India taking credit for such a feat. They are playing smoke and mirrors here.
  
  This folly was done by Renault, when they launched Captur in the Indian Market. Renault wanted to take credit for the safety features and crash test results of Renault Clio platform based Captur for the Duster platform based Captur in India. These cars have a good difference in their sizes, the Clio based Captur being smaller.
  
  Now we all know where Renault Captur ended up. Model pulled from Indian market in around 2 years of time.
  
  We Indians can believe the hush tones like Hyundai’s silent treatment, but what we don’t let go is the car manufacturers blatantly lying which was done by Renault India. So it is going to happen that even if you corner a Hyundai Executive (not dealership staff but Manufacturing related senior staff), all they are going to say is that all Hyundai cars follow the Indian safety standards and regulations which are a joke as you will agree.
  
  
• Venue and Sonet might (my opinion) receive 3 to 4 stars with stable or unstable bodyshell. If Hyundai is so sure about safety of their Indian manufactured cars, why don't they just test in Global NCAP and be done with it. I or anyone else will be able to shut their big mouths as I will have nothing to talk about.
  
  Even if Venue and Sonet receives 3 or 4 stars, with the competition Nexon and XUV3OO having 5 stars, it will be a big negative for Hyundai/Kia. Even less than half priced Tiago has received 4 stars in Global NCAP. It is really a shame that Hyundai is playing with Indian lives in this manner. Where Gentlemen like our Senior BHPians have to come in defence of their practices.
  
  
• I have nothing against Hyundai or Kia, they have created segment benchmarks in terms of interior quality and features on offer. Particularly Kia with the number of engines and variants on offer, they have forced everyone to be on their toes.
  
  However, safety should be our first priority. If you are the earning member of family and God forbid by any unfortunate circumstance have to suffer due to insufficient crash worthiness of a vehicle, I shudder to think how many lives in a family will be ruined. If taken at a large scale, at numbers these cars sell, think about number of families affected and think about the able and skilled professionals who are the lifeline of our country may suffer injuries or worse disability or loss of life. Do you think insurance can replace these people easily.

I do not want any BHPian to take my opinion as the truth gospel, but would like you to think about it and then make your own opinion. I sincerely from the bottom of my heart seek apologies if my post hurts some feelings specially Senior BHPian RSR. Dear BHPian RSR, you have really helped us learn some new things here. I request you to not use words like rabid. I have not read this word on Team-BHP till date.

We are all passionate enthusiasts here, not shareholders of Maruti, Hyundai, Tata or anyone else. However, this is time to call out cars which are not being tested under Global NCAP. We should not care even if the company claims that the structure or platform is made of Titanium or Vibranium alloy. We do not care if the car is based on K1 or K13 or even K150 platform, just slam that car into the barriers at Global NCAP and none of us keyboard warriors here will be wiser.

Regards.

[Nithesh_M]

Originally Posted by RSR

From all this, it is quite obvious that the Venue (QX & QXi) clearly shares its platform with the K2 Verna (HC & HCi) and also the Elantra (ADi)!

Nothing like a good engineering eye to dispel myths and legends.


A bit but can you let us know where you got these chassis images from for all these products? Does Hyundai publish it somewhere?

[longhorn]

Sorry to burst the party but sharing the same platform as the international model means nothing when a different grade of steel has been used. I would like to see a GNCAP result, given the past performance of Hyundais, and would not give them an auto pass based on just the platform.

[The Rationalist]

The proof of the pudding is in eating! If Sonet and Venue are built on International platforms, there shouldn’t be an iota of hesitation to test it! Why worry when one is confident. But I’m sure Kia and Hyundai aren't going to get the Indian versions crash tested. They have definitely something to hide! Tata tested Altroz even before launch. Your K1, K2 will amount to nothing till facts are proven, extrapolation isn't proof of anything. So next time your blood boils, read how things are proven based on tests. Till Hyundai and Kia tests their cars, they are inferior with regards to safety when compared to Mahindra XUV300, Marazzo, Tata Nexon, Altroz, Tiago, Volkswagen Polo, Maruti Brezza, Honda Amaze, Toyota Etios. I don't have anything against the Korean manufacturers, but the fact is there are niether showing transparency nor being honest. Will never buy from them until their attitude changes, my one purchase won't make any difference to them, but that doesn't mean I shouldn't make a stand!

[Lowflyer23]

Damn! I just wish that my friends don't find this thread ever. I'm one of those who trolled Venue owners a lot (only among my friend circle) , and I am extremely sorry and no offense meant to any of the owners or admirers. Thanks for the useful information, though I wonder why does the Venue being expensive than the i20 does not get ultra high strength steel like it.

[Lowflyer23]

Originally Posted by Seenz

Respected BHPian @RSR with his brilliant investigative & analytical skills and extreme hard work and dedication has 'smashed to smithereens' both the mighty myths of Venue developed on the Santro K1 platform and Indian and International Venue being developed on the same platform. Now myself being a snarky and sarcastic fellow, information does not enter my brain as nicely as other technically qualified BHPians. So I will stick to asking some foolish and non sensical questions (Trust me, I am genuinely curious):-

Woah Now this really got my brain thinking in other direction. The sheer information and knowledge of BHPians here is noteworthy. You have put it aptly sir, now it's upto the buyers to decide and where they put their trust.

[saur95]

Originally Posted by RSR

From all this, it is quite obvious that the Venue (QX & QXi) clearly shares its platform with the K2 Verna (HC & HCi) and also the Elantra (ADi)!

I REST MY CASE!

Thank you for your time and effort in sourcing this information. I was quite fond of Hyundai and thought they couldn't put a foot wrong until the serious mishaps with the Creta and other similar cases. The rumours (which, TBH, I believed too) that the Venue is based on the K1 didn't seem too farfetched. I have tried really hard to dispel these myths for myself but never got as far as you did. There has generally been difficulty finding more details about the platform, vehicle weight etc (Whether or not it is done intentionally is another rabbit hole).

Now, before I digress further. While it is heartening to see that it is based on the K2, we still can't take IIHS crash test ratings as reference due to the change in composition of HSS and UHSS. It is probably better than the K1 but that's all we can assume. Please understand that I put this forth as matter of fact rather than bashing.


Manufacturers are not going to test their cars unless it's required (either for regulation or marketing). Tata used it as marketing material but, unfortunately, Hyundai and Maruti are selling quite well even without it. If you remember, the first-gen i20 was advertised proudly with the 5-Star NCAP rating, to help build their image. They won't spend extra money now unless they are forced by the government.

[RSR]

Man! I seriously don't understand what's wrong with people.

There were circulating all round the internet, created by utterly ignorant auto journalists and fuelled by their equally clueless admirers about the platform of the Indian Venue (& therefore Sonet, too).

Those mighty myths came across as a sheer disgrace to anyone who knows something about cars.

I set out to bust those mighty myths and smashed them to smithereens!

What the hell has this got anything to do with NCAP or G-NCAP???

Did I ever, ever mention the Indian Venue will ace any crash test or did I ever, ever try to prove the Indian Venue or Sonet are very safe cars???

Or did I ever, ever mention that the Indian Venue is as safe as the international Venue???

In fact, I, yes, I was the one who showed the differences in the strength of the steel of some members between the QX and QXi!!!

So now people want to have a go at me for busting mighty myths, establishing facts and also showing the difference between the Indian and international Venues. When earlier everyone was jumping on me for merely trying to disprove those mighty myths.

What a pity, what a pity!

As for the word "rabid", it has got nothing to do with canines in the context that I used it. It's the first meaning in the following definition:

[jetsetgo08]

@Mods, this thread has become a runaway.

Request to spawn a different thread for discussions on platforms and the alterations made for Indian vehicles.

[JithinR]

Originally Posted by RSR

Man! I seriously don't understand what's wrong with people.

There were mighty myths circulating all round the internet, created by utterly ignorant auto journalists and fuelled by their equally clueless admirers about the platform of the Indian Venue (& therefore Sonet, too).


What the hell has this got anything to do with NCAP or G-NCAP???



So now people want to have a go at me for busting mighty myths, establishing facts and also showing the difference between the Indian and international Venues. When earlier everyone was jumping on me for merely trying to disprove those mighty myths.

Please don't take the discussions going on in the thread personally.You have put forth a counter point (with evidence) against what a lot of people myself included who believed that the Venue/Sonet are based on the K1 platform.

It would be great if even Hyundai/Kia came out and validated it (but I am not holding my breath for that to happen). So, thanks for your effort.

No one is blaming you for the lack of GNCAP testing (as far as I could see..if they did then it's definitely wrong). Rather, I have just seen members point out that without a standardized test we can't really know if the K2 platform is safe either.

Once again thanks for your effort. I for one will not be telling friends and family that the Venue/Sonet is unsafe since it's just a Santro with different clothes anymore.

[vivek_lm]

Originally Posted by JithinR

Once again thanks for your effort. I for one will not be telling friends and family that the Venue/Sonet is unsafe since it's just a Santro with different clothes anymore.

Thanks mate for this reply- I concur with you, except on this last point:

I WILL continue to tell my family/friends that Venue/Sonet is unsafe until proven otherwise by a competent authority (xNCAP) that tests specifically the Indian made model(s).

I know this may not make much of an impact given the irresistible lure of the completeness of the packages offered by Hyundai/Kia and their brand pull among fellow Indians. Still, I cannot endorse unless I'm convinced.

[Rakmo]

Mod note: Please avoid Quoting entire large post for short replies. Post edited to trim the quote. Thanks.

Originally Posted by RSR

Team-BHP is a responsible automobile forum.
=====
From all this, it is quite obvious that the Venue (QX & QXi) clearly shares its platform with the K2 Verna (HC & HCi) and also the Elantra (ADi)!

I REST MY CASE!

Your post reminded me of the Movie "Inception"!
BTW, I understood more than when I saw the movie for the 1st time.

Thanks for sharing.