[clevermax]

If I am to buy a BS6 Diesel car, I would explore options of Urea delete. (DPF+SCR altogether).

All the hassles surrounding Urea refill and clogged DPF are too much of a burden for nothing (well almost) for a small car owner.

Currently running a pre-BS6 car with EGR delete

[PaddleShifter]

Originally Posted by tilt

Heheheheheh - I have heard a plethora of reasons to buy a car, but this one is the absolute best in the world - this post needs some genuine worldwide exposure.

Thanks for the the post. Perhaps the forum members should be more generous with the pressing of the thanks button on that post.

A small addition: This wasnt the reason to buy a car. I needed a car for personal use and this (low running of 1km/day in those days) was a reason for confusion between petrol vs diesel owing to the DPF and related issues.

I made this post at 9:30am in the morning that day and within the next 12 hours, I switched to a petrol car from the Maruti stable and cancelled my Kia Sonet “diesel” booking.

[audioholic]

Originally Posted by clevermax

If I am to buy a BS6 Diesel car, I would explore options of Urea delete. (DPF+SCR altogether).

I don't want to get into the environmental aspect but BS6 diesels are at least free from particulate emissions and NOx also, both of which are harmful compared to petrol emissions.

Coming to the actual delete, deleting EGR is far more simpler than doing the same for DPF or SCR. EGR can be deleted just by software or at best completely removing it and blocking the EGR. But to delete DPF and SCR, you will need a completely new exhaust downstream of the turbo all the way to the end as well as new software to cope up with these changes. A software-only change won't work as long as the hardware is present. There are crude methods such as cutting open the exhaust and demolishing the DPF core, but that's going to be irreversible.

Hence, if one has to buy a Diesel car, then it's better to stick with the exhaust after treatment else better avoid diesels completely.

[Bibendum90949]

Originally Posted by tilt

It is not about speed, it is purely about RPMs. Even in an automatic (that has a pseudo- or real manual mode) it is possible to keep the RPMs up at a lower gear and therefore a lower speed. You can do it even in a crowded city, no need to go to the highway.

That's why I mentioned on highways and in real world conditions. I doubt if one can maintain 2000 rpm on the trot for 20-25 mins(even in gear 1 or 2) in a crowded city. I was merely indicating that it is largely impractical to carry out such a task or to do an Italian tune up of sorts every now and then to keep the DPF happy.

Originally Posted by Bibendum90949

Yes even on highways in real world conditions, 25 minutes on the trot above 2000 rpm means we'll have to be steadily doing 100 kph and above which doesn't happen often. But I guess these aren't exactly strict conditions for regeneration. It should take place on most highway drives.

Originally Posted by tilt

Er... my car is a BS4 diesel that has clocked 1.09 lakh kms, and is over 5 years old. Zero problems with DPF. Never had to pay it any attention whatsoever.

There's a significant difference with BS4 diesel and BS6 diesel. It's in the sulphur content. Hence to say that BS4 diesel car worked seamlessly doesn't have any bearing in the BS6 context.

[audioholic]

Originally Posted by Bibendum90949

There's a significant difference with BS4 diesel and BS6 diesel. It's in the sulphur content. Hence to say that BS4 diesel car worked seamlessly doesn't have any bearing in the BS6 context.

How would the reduced sulphur in diesel affect the functioning of DPF? If we consider the fact that BS6 diesel is cleaner diesel, then it should also bear lesser load on the DPF by creating lesser soot. So if the car worked well on BS4 diesel WRT DPF, then I believe it must be better with BS6.

[steadfast]

Had a quick ques:

Will driving a BS6 car with cap of DEF tank open cause problems such as air intake into DEF tank? Workshop floor engineer forgot to fit the cap of DEF tank after refilling the tank and I drove the car for almost 10-15 kms with open DEF tank.

I know that running an engine with open engine oil cap or running a car with open fuel tank cap can be catastrophic.
But any idea what happens if a car is driven with open DEF tank?

For reference: My car is a BS6 Harrier.

[audioholic]

Originally Posted by steadfast

Had a quick ques:

Will driving a BS6 car with cap of DEF tank open cause problems such as air intake into DEF tank?.

There is natural air intake into the DEF tank as the fluid level reduces. There is no problem with that. However if the Adblue tank cap is left open and in case it is filled to the brim, there might have been some Adblue that splashed outside of the filler mouth which might cause corrosion if it comes in contact with metal. Otherwise there is no issue.

[steadfast]

Originally Posted by audioholic

There is natural air intake into the DEF tank as the fluid level reduces. There is no problem with that. However if the Adblue tank cap is left open and in case it is filled to the brim, there might have been some Adblue that splashed outside of the filler mouth which might cause corrosion if it comes in contact with metal. Otherwise there is no issue.

Thanks, this is helpful.
Indeed some part of it has spilled out and I can see white spots around in the boot and plastic trim... so what should I do now to prevent corrosion ?

[BharathXUV700]

Originally Posted by clevermax

If I am to buy a BS6 Diesel car, I would explore options of Urea delete. (DPF+SCR altogether).

All the hassles surrounding Urea refill and clogged DPF are too much of a burden for nothing (well almost) for a small car owner.

Currently running a pre-BS6 car with EGR delete

That would be illegal and irresponsible. The whole point of DPF, SCR etc is to lower tail pipe emissions and keep air pollution down. Plus, with the level of complexities in today's cars, i doubt a simple hardware delete/removal will help. Am sure it will throw up some errors and will cause further trouble or irritations.

[yogishkamath]

Can we have a poll for how often the current BS6 diesel owners have to do explicit regens ? (either by pressing a button, doing an 'Italian tuneup' or by visiting the service center)

The number for chaps who drive mostly within the city would be of particular interest.
As of now, I am not sure whether the worst cases involve having to explicit regen everyday or if it is more like once-a-month.

Having to do a regen everyday would be a complete dealbreaker for most people while if it means parking and pressing a button once a month, it would just be a minor annoyance.

[Shanksta]

Originally Posted by Shanksta

The DPF issue has been logged in his service history yesterday. He will be visiting the Service center in the coming week to have the DPF checked.

Originally Posted by PrasannaDhana

Hope your friend doesn't get this issue repeated.

Hi All,

An update on this issue, this might be useful for fellow BS6 diesel/Altroz Diesel owners.

So yesterday my friend took his car to Kaveri Tata in Trichy as requested by TASS. Around evening he called me and requested me to talk to the Service advisor as what he was saying did not make sense to him. Post my conversation with him and some additional Googled knowledge below is what I could make of this entire ordeal.

• A DPF equipped vehicle has a sensor that monitors the "soot load" in the DPF.
• Typically this Soot load is calculated mostly from 0%-250%.
• For Tata the normal soot load value is 60% or lesser. Anything above this the car requests you to drive spiritedly to clear the DPF as we all know.
• When this initial warning is ignored the soot load increases, now there is also a preset limit by the manufacturer to ensure the car does not cause harm to itself when the soot load increases. This is because the soot load increase causes stress on the exhaust system thereby increasing the heat considerably.
• When this happens the car is programmed to jump into "Limp mode", which is what my friend experienced.

My friend's Altroz DPF was measured and the soot load was at 138% as told to me by the SA. When this preset limit is breached the sensors/ECU are programmed to throw the "Check Engine light" and the "Service Station Symbol".

Now this requires a "Recovery Regeneration" cycle to be performed by Tata Service Center. They follow a standard procedure where the engine has to cool down, then they reset the error codes and drive the car at requested rpms to clear the soot and also this recovery Regeneration requires them to check the temperature of the engine oil, it's condition and the oil filter.

Once this is done they have to TD the car again and reset codes if any. Finally measure the soot load once again. One good thing though is the service advisor has clearly told him that he will not be charged a single rupee, however need to confirm this when he picks up the car today.

So basically my friend did not notice the first warning on the cluster to clear the DPF and this has caused this entire saga.

One of the websites that really helped me understand this process is here.

Owning a BS6 diesel is no joke !

[richie4u]

Hey guys, being new to the Adblue scenario, I recently had to top up the adblue tank which has its inlet in the engine bay in my Innova BS6. All well until I topped it too high in the process and there was a small spill into the engine bay as it spilt out due to overflow. I wiped away as much as it was accessible and sprayed water sparingly into areas where my hand wouldn't reach. Is it enough or do I need to do something else to avoid corrosion risks?

Also is all adblue the same, cause I got different options at Lubricant and oil dealers but I finally picked up the 5L cans from Toyota itself. Can I use any brand in the future?

[PrasannaDhana]

Not related to cars, but here is the message thrown by my new Swaraj Mazda school bus after which it went to limp mode.



The dealer has been notified.

BS6 surely is a pain in the bottom.

[raikva]

Had the Adblue warning light on in my Crysta around a few weeks back. Added 5 liters of Adblue a week ago (got it from Shell). The light refuses to go off and the display still shows that I need to fill Adblue at the end of the required kms. Should I add a few more liters and check? Anyone else face a similar situation?

[oh_maan]

I have a 2020 BS6 Innova Crysta (VXi) (pre-facelift version). I've had DPF issues twice in my car. For about 15K, I faced no issues. My usage pattern is about 70% on highways and 30% on City.

From my discussion with the SA, the DPF alert mechanism works something like the below in the older version of BS6 Crysta (pre facelift).

1. When running on the highway, automatic DPF regen happens.
2. If it doesn't happen for some reason, a warning is shown ONCE when the car is running for about 5 to 10 sec, when you are supposed to be looking at the road. If you miss it, tough luck.
3. It does not repeat nor does it show up when the car is started, when someone might actually notice these warnings.
4. There is no beep/alarm to inform the driver about this potential issue.
5. If you do not do manual regen, the DPF becomes full and you are not supposed to drive the car and it needs to be towed.
6. Once DPF becomes full, you cannot do manual regen.
7. If you press manual regen button when the DPF is not above a threshold, it does nothing.

I think this is a flawed design for something so important. The newer versions of Crysta has a display in the MID showing the % of DPF. This allows you to keep track of the car condition better.

I hit the DPF issue within 2K Kms of the 1st issue. When that happened TKM replaced the catalytic convertors and the injectors. I am still observing the car post that.

However, I am terribly disillusioned by diesel cars now and am tempted to switch out to petrol cars. Since I need a 7 seater, there are not that many options available in the Innova segment.