[viXit]

A chain is only as strong as it's weakest link!

This goes not only for the Product that failed but also the staff and the services rendered by them.
A crucial component failed just within weeks!!.
We have owned several Tata cars from early 2000s and despite their terrible track record, we never had a breakdown.

Originally Posted by bobbyaxelrod

The SA made me talk to his senior and that guy claimed that he has 20 years experience in servicing cars and that it is usual for parts to be changed and not be mentioned on the invoices. Both these guys made me furious and I asked them to make their manager contact me.

We can hope that this was a one-off case and it would be great if it really was.
But there is no overlooking the fact that it is not okay to deny producing a Correct and Real invoice or job card.

TO ERR IS HUMAN, but to try and cover it up and not acknowledge it in the system and on the invoice is just a stupid way to run your brand.


-A slow and inefficient Roadside Assistance,

- BLATANTLY lying to a customer(about other service centres being able to see the replaced part)

-And telling the customer that this has happened several times and "This is how it is" is absolutely unacceptable.
This Chalta Hai attitude among many car dealers and workshops need to change. Long gone are the times where the market was a sellers market.
This is a consumer's market and even the slightest of inconveniences must be brought to light.

Maybe doing that enough number of times will ensure that the OEMs start treating their customers properly.

Beautiful things come out of a new car's ownership.
An irritating ordeal like this will only help leave a bitter taste for the owner as well as other prospective buyers of the brand.

[saur95]

Regarding RSA, it is a premium (paid) service and Kia should ensure it works properly. Don't provide the RSA button in the vehicle if it's just going to be gimmick. With that said, I do think it's not something to bother too much about.

About the rest of the incident, this is speculation but it could be a case of a shady recall. Possible sequence of events could be as follows :

1. Multiple vehicles start facing fuel pump issues, maybe even at the factory.
2. Kia investigates and finds the vendor at fault.
3. Vendor has poor systems in place for traceability and Kia can't zero in on the affected batch : This would mean they would have to recall a whole heap of vehicles if done officially and also face a huge fine. Of course, part of the fine and labour would have to be recovered from the vendor later.
4. Vendor offers to replace all faulty parts as and when they fail at dealers (This has happened before with certain manufacturers) : This would help the vendor (and Kia) dodge any overheads, the fine and also save face.
5. Dealer replaces the part but does not update it in their system so that there is no way to trace it back to Kia.

From both the threads on the group about major failures in Hyundai vehicles and my own experience at an automotive manufacturer, dealing with many vendors of repute, I've come to understand that Hyundai is far from ethical. Many of these vendors have stopped doing business with Hyundai because of the same.

We own a 10 year old i20 but I have stopped recommending Hyundai vehicles (especially India specific ones) after the thread on Team-BHP. It's just impossible for me to get over it after having worked as an engineer in QC.

I just hope that they have indeed rectified the issue correctly, even if it's just a loose connection at fault.

Originally Posted by bobbyaxelrod

Last evening I got a call from the RM of KIA India, the manager of Sparsh and the manager of Frontier. The three of them tried explaining to me that according to their policy when the part is supplied from the vendor directly it does not show up on the invoice. They told me they got the part from vendor to speed up my repair.

I don't have to reiterate this but everything and anything that is done at the dealer (Both parts and labour) will be listed on the invoice in print and in the service history. Don't settle for anything else.

We just had a warranty replacement for our Skoda (Who am I to talk? ) where all parts, major and minor (single use bolts and washers) were listed as 'Replaced Under Warranty'. They had even prepared a small report for the central technical service team which they explained to me as well. Listed all the activities done with a signature of the technician responsible and the relevant pages from the service manual. I should definitely post about this experience soon haha.

Originally Posted by bobbyaxelrod

I told him there's a huge difference between wiper blades and a fuel pump. Any problems with motion are super serious; gas, brakes, steering.

Very important for everyone to understand this. Customer safety is paramount.

[Gansan]

Just my personal opinion. Never chance a high ticket purchase from some new brand setting up shop in India. Give some time for the product to mature and see customer feed backs; unless of course if it is a top international brand,or the money spent is not going to pinch.

What we know about Kia as a brand is just hearsay. Are they a top brand What bragging rights that service fellow has to say it is not a Maruti? The service history of any car serviced anywhere in India can be pulled out in any MASS facility. If one wants to buy a used Maruti and want to check history, officially pay Rs 500 at any facility and they will give a printout along with an invoice for the amount. It can be pulled even for a Delhi car in Chennai, no issues.

[ChoosetoCruze]

Originally Posted by bobbyaxelrod

The Sparsh agent claimed that the fuel pump problem is being faced by other Seltos customers as well and that a memo was issued about this.

This is scandalous information which leads me to believe that Kia already knows about this and that they should issue a recall to all affected vehicles. Incidents like these only dent brand perception and make potential customers look elsewhere.

Originally Posted by ninjatalli

Just a side thought - Hyundai is not the ideal benchmark - if you haven't had a look, I'd suggest going through this excellent thread (Hyundai India - The occasional serious quality lapse and apathetic manufacturer response!) by @CrAzY dRiVeR.

It's important to highlight such cases, even if it turns out later to be just one off case.

Originally Posted by Vid6639

The fuel pump failed in just 372kms!

Sorry to hear about your ordeal but seriously I'm more shocked at a critical part of the car failing in 1 month with less than 500kms.

Looks like there is no process been followed at all.

I'm still in shock at a fuel pump failure at 350kms.

Why am I not surprised?! Just goes to show how people have blind (hollow?) faith in some brands even though there’s evidence to the contrary. All that you need to sell cars in the country is good looks, a lot of bling, a plethora of gimmicky features and clever packaging. Who cares about the manufacturer's track record of building reliable transportation right?

I guess it’s part of the bigger ‘it won’t happen to me’ problem/syndrome.

In my opinion, Hyundai (Kia is owned by Hyundai) and Korean manufacturers in general, still have a LONG way to go before they reach the standards of Japanese engineering standards & reliability. This is especially true for the vehicles which they sell in India and which are newly launched.

I predict this is just the beginning of troubles with Kia reliability. Let the cars age a little and maybe after 5-6yrs, if they perform flawlessly like the Japanese, can we claim that they are truly reliable workhorses like Toyota, Honda & Suzuki sold in the country. At this moment, the Seltos is barely a year old, globally. It’s reliability is relatively unknown.

As other members have rightly said, a critical part like the fuel pump failing after 350kms of usage is mind boggling, to say the least. Of course, it is an automobile and EVERY automobile will break during some part of its lifetime, but this is just getting ridiculous.

The QC division at Hyundai & Kia needs to be revamped/overhauled ASAP. Their products aren’t exactly cheap.

When will they take QC seriously in their entire fleet of vehicles in India?

Originally Posted by Gansan

Just my personal opinion. Never chance a high ticket purchase from some new brand setting up shop in India. Give some time for the product to mature and see customer feed backs; unless of course if it is a top international brand,or the money spent is not going to pinch.

What we know about Kia as a brand is just hearsay.

Spot on! But will the buying public care about that? Doesn’t seem like it. Who cares about bullet proof reliability after all?

[gururajrv]

I'm sorry if this sounds a bit OT. But, this all boils down to just one simple thing which company's themselves can't influence, as this is to do with training and handovers within each dealership and relevant services offered. They provide training on scanning for issues, but fail miserably on customer-handling front! Dealerships aren't really bothered to address after-sales whilst only few excels in that area.

I work in a service industry too - my guys in the team I manage have different mindsets like I said. Company gives all the benefits. But, not all fingers are of the same size I hope you get what I'm trying to say. I have seen enthusiastic service advisors who keep their customers before the tasks or protocols to follow. That elevates the experience of the company that is connected to customers.

Can't blame KIA unless this was a manufacturing defect and they have broomed this issue under the carpet silently keeping the customers in dark.

Anyways, I hope all your issues are put to rest and you enjoy the car like it's meant to! good luck there, sir!

Regards,

RV

[ankitsharma]

Off late I have been hearing a lot of complaints by KIA owners (Seltos of course). I am also in the market for a car and have already removed KIA from the list. First of all the brand along with the product is new in India. It will take time for them to streamline everything but I as a customer will not bear the heat of that. It is upto the company to deal with these shortcomings.
Also I own a maruti and let me tell you that the service is not good at all for most of the garages but one thing that Maruti very well control is the dealer rating and feedback.
The moment you rate a dealer negative after the service / fixes you will get about 50 calls from Maruti and the dealer , requesting you to visit and get the issue fixed , most of the times free of cost. This is the power of MSIL in India and the way they are keeping a tab on the dealers.
Also the moment any other brand salesperson / service advisor tries to upsell me with this Maruti bullshit , I just have one answer for them , get the equivalent market share and then talk.
But not digressing from the topic , this is real BS. How can you not provide an invoice for a part that you have changed regardless of who procured it / changed it ?
If the product worthiness would have been the only merit for gaining and retaining customers then , Skoda / VAG group would have been on the top. There is a reason Maruti & Hyundai top the charts

If KIA improves this , good for them otherwise Creta has already outnumbered Seltos already

[low_rider]

Any mechanical device is prone to failure. It shouldn't have failed within 350 kms, but we have seen such issues with almost all the manufacturers to varying extent. A quick search of the forums can testify to this fact. But as much we dislike it, that is the case with mechanical parts. The quality of service depends on how promptly it is resolved and the level of ownership the service folks take up.

To be fair to Kia and to the dealer, the part was promptly replaced or repaired. The prevalent tactic of blaming the customer and dishonouring the warranty was not played. In case of fuel pumps, the blame could have been easily put on adulterated diesel and in our country, on testing the diesel for adulteration, you will always find some adulterant or moisture in the diesel.

Now coming to the point of contention, it is a record keeping issue. Here also, they have given in writing (signed and stamped) and even on email that the fuel pump was replaced. Now, if any foul play would have been there, they wouldn't have given in writing. Probably, the explanation that vendor parts do not pop in their invoicing system may be true.

Also, when we vilify some brand, we unjustly over praise other brands. People had their fair share of issues with Maruti ASS also. I recall one post on our forum, where a vehicle given for service was just washed and delivered. The mechanics were even found sitting in the vehicle with AC and having lunch. A video was caught of this incident on the spy cam and was posted. I find it hard to believe that it was the only time they did this. Just that it was the only time they were caught on camera.

Even I say that it is a Kia and not Maruti. Kia is giving latest technology at a very favourable price point which Maruti is not (7 speed AT vs 4 speed AT). Is there any other manufacturer in the world who still gives 4 speed AT? When you are using 5 to 10 year old technology, the issues naturally become far less as the technology has matured and thoroughly tested. But, how many of us want to own outdated technology? I do not recall any new tech piece introduced first in India by Maruti.

And as they say, Maruti will save your purchase cost, fuel cost, service cost and all other costs, but will not save your life if you are unlucky to be involved in an accident.

[R2D2]

Originally Posted by bobbyaxelrod

They told me they got the part from vendor to speed up my repair.

This "vendor" could mean either an aftermarket seller OR the OEM supplier. So, IMHO add one more to the count of large patties of bovine droppings from the dealer or his manager.

The Seltos is a new model car and any part that comes into the dealer's inventory must be routed via the company which in all likelihood has exclusive contracts to buy all production units from local OEM suppliers. And imported parts are shipped by overseas suppliers and invoiced to the company not to dealers. ALL parts even down to the smallest fasteners whether plastic or metal are routed via the car manufacturer forget a pretty expensive part like a fuel pump. A defective pump will be returned to the appropriate supplier for a RCA followed by refund or replacement. TBH I don't buy this 'vendor' story.

[bobbyaxelrod]

Update 3
So I received this email from Sparsh KIA today at 2PM. Around this time I also received 4-5 text messages that my car was ready. It's now 5PM and I had to call them up asking where the car was. I gave my car to them at 10:30 this morning. Mr Naresh, service head, told me they were experiencing some issue in updating the invoice but now it is sorted out and they will be sending over my vehicle soon. My Seltos has also been having some rattling noise issue from the passenger side which was claimed to be fixed by Frontier KIA but wasn't. Mr Naresh told me that Sparsh looked at it and found some minor issue with door alignment?(something about how Indian roads can cause this issue) and that his team took care of it. They are also sending me over some vouchers for complimentary wheel alignment and balancing which is highly appreciated.

Originally Posted by Sk8r

I'm really surprised so many of us are asking you to " let go " off it.
I would have asked you to let go too if not for the below :
1) A major failure with 500 kms will kill our confidence in taking out our families across the city border
2) The way in which a part was changed without any information in the system sounds fishy

I would have let it go and never made this post if they had produced the correct invoice initially. I would have gladly moved on and enjoyed my car. What made me mad was the unethical cover up and fake promises. What pushed me over the edge was them constantly acting superior to other brands and not owning up to their mistake.

Originally Posted by arjab

What is more worrying is the way the RSA, dealer/s responded to the customer's request.
The fact that the tow truck's operating area is outside the demarcated operating area is not to be decided by the customer.
The OEM's backend CRM system is supposed to trianglate the GPS's exact location of the disabled vehicle and map its status to the nearest RSA provider as well as the nearest authorised/dealer workshop. Doesn't look that the first bit happened.

The RSA in less than 60 minutes and GPS location looks like a gimmick at this point. The salesman did a great job in convincing me that this features would be useful but as my father told me that India has a long way to go before these features actually perform as they should.

Originally Posted by harry10

Among all this my primary concern still remains that a 400 km run car should not break down under any condition.

This is what the people at KIA don't understand either. Yes primary issue is about how they dealt with the invoice but this situation would have never happened if they did a proper QC on the car parts.

Originally Posted by viXit

A crucial component failed just within weeks!!.
TO ERR IS HUMAN, but to try and cover it up and not acknowledge it in the system and on the invoice is just a stupid way to run your brand.
-A slow and inefficient Roadside Assistance,
- BLATANTLY lying to a customer(about other service centres being able to see the replaced part)
-And telling the customer that this has happened several times and "This is how it is" is absolutely unacceptable.
This Chalta Hai attitude among many car dealers and workshops need to change. Long gone are the times where the market was a sellers market..

Yes this chalta hai attitude is definitely not going to work these days as people have a medium to bring out these issues to light. Hopefully the dealership realizes that their customers are much more woke than they think.

[Reinhard]

Well to be very honest - I'm not yet 100% convinced that the part was replaced at all. I feel there is a small possibility that a simple connection reinforcement of the pump / software flash fixed whatever was the issue & the SA tried to sell the usual dummy of a part replacement to close the matter and to show they did quick work.

[procrj]

Originally Posted by Reinhard

connection reinforcement of the pump / software flash fixed whatever was the issue

I remember that that first batch of TUVs in 2015 also had pump failure issues, primarily because there was some play in the pump and if the car was driven hard over a speed breaker, the pump would go kaput. M&M did recall a bunch of cars and fix the issue IIRC. Hence pump failure in a new car is very much possible.

Changing the pump is not a small task either, Will need to drain the tank, dismantle it and then take out the pump. If all of this was done, the A.S.S should ideally have a line item recorded on their system, because the effort required for this would have to be compensated/accounted for by the A.S.S to HQ. Given the circumstances and how things have played out, can never be sure if the part was replaced. Based on the information shared, I too am leaning towards the part not being replaced and this entire exercise being an eyewash.

Which brings me back to the question, what was wrong with the car in the first place? why is A.S.S trying to cover it up?

[Pashin]

Not an experience anyone would have imagined for a car with under 500kms on the odo. The experience with the service center following the break down is even more horrendous. Know of a High Profile Seltos owner in Guj who was offered a replacement car as the dealership just couldn't fix issues in the infotainment system.

Most of us have a belief of buying Tata and Mahindra cars after a year of launch, so that all issues are ironed out. However I think this has to be applied to all manufacturers, save someone like Toyota.

Can only imagine the Brand bashing on this thread if the car was from an Indian manufacturer

[Vid6639]

Originally Posted by ankitsharma

Off late I have been hearing a lot of complaints by KIA owners (Seltos of course). I am also in the market for a car and have already removed KIA from the list. First of all the brand along with the product is new in India. It will take time for them to streamline everything but I as a customer will not bear the heat of that. It is upto the company to deal with these shortcomings.
If KIA improves this , good for them otherwise Creta has already outnumbered Seltos already

I'm not sure I understand your logic and actually find it somewhat incorrect.

Kia might be new to India but they are not a new brand so they know how to make and sell cars.

They also have the biggest advantage than any other brand coming to India. They are using the entire supply chain of Hyundai and most components are shared.

So this fuel pump is actually the same part which Hyundai will have in the Creta and will be shared. You can see most parts on the KIA and Hyundai have KIA/Hyundai printed on them as well.

They are using the same supply chain / part vendor network as Hyundai so I don't get why Hyundai will be a better pick than Kia.

Both cars share same engine and gearboxes as well as being based on same platform.

Creta sales are more cause it's a fresh and newer product. Remember Hyundai delayed the Creta launch to allow Kia to establish itself. So now Hyundai has come back to take back their stronghold position. This is why the Creta is has a different USP like panoramic sunroof, paddle shifts, electric handbrake.

In the end I would say Hyundai or Kia, you are essentially buying into the same product from 2 different brands. Even the back end supply chain is the same and only difference is you go to a different dealer.

Also, in Bangalore the dealer that runs the Kia showroom also runs Hyundai. The other dealers in Bangalore are also not new. So even there there things are even.

[architect_santo]

Not just this service advisor, but almost all the other brand's sales and service executives I've met, seem to comment about MSIL's product and service quality. May be its their vent out against the India's highest selling car brand.
Although I might agree with some of their comments regarding MSIL's build quality, I cant even remotely agree to any adverse comments with reference to its service. I always felt the service advisors at MASS seems to know their cars in detail, and they've never let me in a situation to think whether my car is in the wrong hands.

[CARNAMA]

My 2 cents,

is there any way you can find Part number/Serial Number of the fuel pump which is in your car now ?
The original fuel pump which came with your car must be of a different part number. I'm not sure but can the original part number of the fuel pump available in the manual or can KIA customer care help you with that if you provide VIN # .

Thanks