[vedant5150]

Hey guys I know this seems impossible! But i would love your help on this topic. Would any generation 1.8tsi match the dq200 or 7 speed dsg of the Polo GT? What other modifications i would have to add to make it exactly a GTI. I'm undertaking this project to make it the second in the world and no one seems to support me or help me. I need to know if the engine will be plug and play and will the ECU of a 1.8tsi work with my current mounts which should be present technically as they share the same identical internals. Also i was suggested that the ECU is locked to each VIN? How do we get past this? Any help would be greatly appreciated.


Thanks

[nerd1200]

Hi Vedant,

This is a noble endeavour that many desire, but none dare tread.

The gearbox integration is the easier bit. Your main problem would be to map the engine to the car's computers. And I don't mean just ECU. You have to practically upgrade multiple controllers - ABS, ECM, BCM, TCU, etc. There are a gazillion sensors in the EA888 engine. But the good thing is you can probably get the part numbers and details from GTI.

Apart from that you need to check if there are any differences in engine & transmission mount points, if yes - if they can be mitigated.

That's what I can think of right now. I'll DM you the contact of a vag expert, you can try checking with him once.

[landcruiser123]

Doable, but a very tough and expensive project. The first step should be finding an expert mechanic who is willing to work on the swap.

Here are the things you'd need: (Top of my head assuming there are no differences in the chassis)
1. Completely new wiring harness
2. New radiator, ancillaries and other hoses/pumps
3. You'll need the 6 speed DSG or detune the 1.8 TSI to 200 Nm or lesser
4. Maybe a new AC system
5. Beefier front suspension
6. New CV shafts (unless the current ones are over engineered)
7. New exhaust
8. New starter motor
9. Maybe a new power steering setup

Originally Posted by vedant5150

Also i was suggested that the ECU is locked to each VIN?

You can probably hack your way through this

You can also consider transplanting a suitable MT and tune the existing engine for more power.

[suhaas307]

Not going to lie that this idea hadn't crossed my mind. In fact, it still lingers and then rears its head from time to time.

If you are looking to execute a hands-on project, because you like the idea of a successful swap and wouldn't mind the tediousness of it all, then by all means go for it! It's certainly doable. I believe TheSaint from Mumbai has done this, but I'm not sure. It's not been documented here, is all.

But if this entire exercise is merely a quest for more power, I'd say just get a used Polo GTI instead. Nothing like factory-sorted mechanicals and everything else in between. Plus you get the brakes and chassis suited to it, not to mention the seats (often overlooked, but such a critical piece of kit for such a car) and the ICE.

I do not want to discourage you from undertaking his project though. But it's going to take a lot of reading, research, the right sources for parts - the motor itself, fuel pump, fuel lines, radiator, hoses, ECM, BCM, new gearbox (with the added advantage of opting for a manual transmission).

Oh, and do remember that when VW switched from the 1.4 turbo-supercharged TSI in the 6R GTI to the EA 888 1.8 TSI motor in the 6C GTI, they couldn't package the battery under the bonnet so it had to be relocated to the boot.

And then you will have to take a second look at the brakes, coz while the front brakes can be upgraded to the ones on the GTI, the rear drum brakes can't be just replaced, and you will have to undertake a complete overhaul at the back by locating and installing a rear axle that will accept the disc conversion (from a pre 2011-12 Polo, preferably). The suspension too, will need a relook, especially the front end. A decent set of coilovers are at least 1 lakh, and OEM suspension bits like the lower arms, link rods, ball joints will also have to be upgraded.

If you still want to undertake a tuning project albeit of a smaller magnitude, have you explored the possibility of a turbo upgrade? There are more than a handful Polo 1.2 TSIs with such upgrades, some different than the others. The JBS hybrid turbos being the popular option. One particular example just surpassed the 1 lakh kilometer milestone on the odo. So they can be reliable in the right hands. Additionally, you may not need the whole shebang - rear disc conversion, coilovers, new BCM, ECU, wiring and harnesses and all that. It's something to consider.

[vedant5150]

I'm ready to undertake all the other upgrades as well anyway! The brakes suspension is going to be swapped for performance ones, in fact the car is already running on Vmaxx Exxtreme coilovers. I know that the starter motor and the AC unit is a direct fit. I need a new BCM and a harness for it. Also the ECU can be a 1 8tsi one or a standalone ECU such as one from RD Dynamics. I just need to know for sure that the DSG will mate straight to the engine which is from a 1.8tsi 2011 Skoda Superb which has the identical gearbox. If it does then the rest is sorted! I have tuning experts like Wolf Moto at hand to do the rest. Brakes also ill be changing to Audi S1 setup which is 310mm instead of the 256mm stock.

Any more comments can be helpful!

Originally Posted by landcruiser123

You can also consider transplanting a suitable MT and tune the existing engine for more power

I want it to be DSG. I know it's troublesome but the quality and speed of shifts are unmatched. I know a manual can handle more power but I'm not looking for a lot more than a Octavia 1.8 TSI stock level or a little more. Also the DQ200 has a torque limit of 250nm as my 1.2 TSI already makes 215nm torque after a De-Ccat and intake with a remap.

[suhaas307]

Originally Posted by vedant5150

in fact the car is already running on Vmaxx Exxtreme coilovers.

Not sure if the existing coilovers would work well once the engine is swapped. Usually, coilovers (or even regular dampers+springs) are designed for the specific engine (weight) and load on the front/rear axle. Please check with the coilover company if you can retain the existing coilovers for the setup you eventually propose to have.

I just need to know for sure that the DSG will mate straight to the engine which is from a 1.8tsi 2011 Skoda Superb which has the identical gearbox.

It may be the same DQ200 DSG, but it's very likely that they won't work together. Your best bet is to find a pre-owned Superb and use it as a donor car for its drivetrain.

Brakes also ill be changing to Audi S1 setup which is 310mm instead of the 256mm stock.

Not recommended.

While you could use the Audi S1 calipers for the front, it's best to use the 288 mm rotors for the front axle. 310 mm rotors may result in a front-heavy brake bias due to the rear drum setup.

Instead you could consider additional bits to improve the braking like steel braided lines and a caliper stiffening kit to improve the braking performance.

If you are adamant about running 310 mm rotors up front, try and locate a rear axle from a 2009-10 / 2010-11 Polo. This will enable you to carry out the rear-disc conversion.

Also, you should try and procure the GTI calipers instead - it's essentially the same caliper setup as the S1 without the S1 plaque - you will save a decent sum doing this.

Any more comments can be helpful!

Yes, instead of the 1.8 TSI, see if you can source the 1.4 TSI from the Jetta. It's a much easier swap than the 1.8 TSI. You will not need to relocate the battery for instance, and you could use the existing airbox with upgraded hoses and plumbing. Plus, you can easily tune it to 180 horsepower - exactly what you are looking for.

See if you can get in touch with Sirish Vissa from VW Motorsport or RaceTech India. I believe they have undertaken a similar project for a street application, and remember it's the bread and butter for VW's Motorsport division.

[GTO]

I have yet to drive a car with an after-market engine swap that drove as clean, pure & balanced as a stock car. They are usually full of compromises & offer poor reliability.

Two golden rules to remember:

1. Factory fit is factory fit.

2. Factory horses are factory horses.

Hence, my suggestion = Sell your Polo 1.2 TSI and buy a Polo 1.8 TSI . Here are 3 cars I found in 1 minute, am sure you'll get your dream car with more effort & patience = 1, 2 & 3. All costs considered (time, reliability, driving pleasure, resale etc.), this might actually work out cheaper!

Also consider a pre-owned Octavia 1.8 TSI.

[vedant5150]

Originally Posted by GTO

Hence, my suggestion = Sell your Polo 1.2 TSI and buy a Polo 1.8 TSI

I understand your point but it's the task of making a 4 door GTI. The fun of doing everything on your own to make something is a different thing altogether.

[dhanushs]

Been missing mod threads like these nowadays. Will be glued to it for updates. Sorry, I don't have to contribute much technically, than what's already written above, but before getting into the mod job, I would really advise you to get your priorities right.

Forget that this will be your primary car. The satisfaction after you've done the mod will not be just of more power, but, the fact that it's your brainchild and its something unique.

[KMT]

From my (limited) experience with rebuilds/engine swaps, it is not something for faint hearts or weak wallets.

Moreover, it will strictly be a hobby car not a daily driver.

In addition to that, judging from the rather basic nature of questions by the OP, he needs to make good friends with a good workshop/mechanic/tuner, before turning to the internet for answers.

Alka Panwars thread on turbocharging a Harley is an excellent starting point to see the degree knowledge and perseverance needed to embark on this journey.

I hope I am wrong but I believe this project will not go ahead once the OP does his due diligence on this transplant.

If it does go ahead, I am really keen to see the results.

As for a competent workshop, there was one in Mumbai that transplanted a Nissan Silvya sub frame and 2Ltr Turbo engine into a Red Amby some years ago, someone of this calibre could do the build.

[sandeepmohan]

In my view, there is too much that can go wrong with an upgrade like this and it ain't worth the time and money you'll end up putting into this project.

If you still want to pull off something like this, before you get to the engine, make sure you upgrade the brakes and suspension on your Polo. This isn't limited to just a brake rotor and pad upgrade. It requires a complete over haul right to the master cylinder.

[1.2TSI7DSG]

Dream on!!!

Finally some fantasies are written and preserved.

What may be interesting and possibly easier, is to throw out the dq200 and 1.8 tsi + 6 speed mt.

But if someone succeeds I may turn mine too...

[Silver Knight]

Why you should not do it in imho:

1. it is illegal, making your car non road worthy.
2. Nothing beats factory fit.
3. Sell your Polo TSI (you get pretty good resale) and try to get a GTI (low resale value but hard to get).
4. You will burn lot of money and lose your peace.
5. You cant sell this car (no one will buy an illegal car normally).
6. You cant insure your car as it is illegal.

[suhaas307]

Another reason why you must reconsider using the EA 888 1.8 TSI as the engine of choice for your swap, is the fact that the EA 888 that was made available in India is wrought with defects, the primary one being its appetite for oil.

This drinking habit is accentuated when driven hard, or driven in stop-go conditions within city limits, in traffic, etc.

Whilst VAG had issued an official recall in markets where this engine was made available (in the Skodas and the Polo GTI), no such recall was issued in the Indian market, (surprise, surprise!) despite the fact that the Lauras, Superbs, Octavias and even in the GTI had these engines.

Some competent (independent / private) workshops have noted this and have undertaken to resolve the issues by performing a conversion/revision to the engine's head in their client's cars on their request. It's not a cheap conversion, though. Just something to consider.

[anandpadhye]

Originally Posted by suhaas307

Nothing like factory-sorted mechanicals and everything else in between. Plus you get the brakes and chassis suited to it, not to mention the seats
...

they couldn't package the battery under the bonnet so it had to be relocated to the boot.
...
And then you will have to take a second look at the brakes, coz while the front brakes can be upgraded to the ones on the GTI, the rear drum brakes can't be just replaced, and you will have to undertake a complete overhaul at the back by locating and installing a rear axle that will accept the disc conversion (from a pre 2011-12 Polo, preferably). The suspension too, will need a relook, especially the front end. A decent set of coilovers are at least 1 lakh, and OEM suspension bits like the lower arms, link rods, ball joints will also have to be upgraded.

Yes, this is quite pointless.
I drove the Polo GT TSI for 4 years and exchanged it for the GTI which I have now driven for 2 years. The GTI brakes are in a different league (especially the rear disk brakes), battery is in the boot, the suspension is stiff like it should be.

Originally Posted by GTO

1. Factory fit is factory fit.

2. Factory horses are factory horses.

Hence, my suggestion = Sell your Polo 1.2 TSI and buy a Polo 1.8 TSI .

+10000

Originally Posted by vedant5150

it's the task of making a 4 door GTI

Nothing like the 2 door GTI, and this was the last 2 door GTI that VW would make. All future GTIs will be 4 door. So if it's fun and kick and exclusivity you are looking for, it's in the 2 door version

Originally Posted by Silver Knight

Why you should not do it in imho:

1. it is illegal, making your car non road worthy.
2. Nothing beats factory fit.
6. You cant insure your car as it is illegal.

Spot on!