[VS1811]

Originally Posted by ashvek3141

But what surprises me is that, Hyundai Venue being a sister brand isn’t being reported for such terrible issues yet. What I mean is, there will definitely be technology sharing and stuff, and I am guessing the auto boxes will definitely be pretty close, yet there haven’t been any major issues reported in that DCR box. Ofcourse leaving aside the heating issues, which are pretty much inherent in DCTs. Am I missing something here? Won’t the auto boxes be atleast 70-80% close to each other?

I don't think there is an inherent flaw in the DCT of Seltos. Hyundai would have definitely studied and tested the gearbox on Venue as well as seen the issues being reported on Seltos prior to deciding to plonk the unit in upcoming Creta.

For the number of Seltos being sold, this issue here seems to be a one-off otherwise we would have surely read or heard about it on FB / Twitter / other social media. The only issue being reported regularly is relating the overheating.
I think Sandy's car has an inherent issue with it's DCT; but dont think its a common problem.

[Lobogris]

Originally Posted by padmrajravi

I have realized that ever since I got used to the way my AT car works, I now attempt more adventurous manoeuvres trusting the box completely to do whatever it takes to get me out of sticky situations. In fact, I have lost my muscle reflexes to work the manual boxes. I don't think I have it in me to quickly work that manual mode to get me out of situations if something like this happens during a tricky overtake.

The best course of action, regardless of the kind of transmission, would be to avoid any “adventurous manoeuvres” and avoid getting into “sticky situations” in the first place. Before trying any questionable overtake, the driver should think if overtaking is more important than the life and safety of his or her family and other road users. If not, then one can wait patiently and more often than not, a safe opportunity presents itself a short while afterwards.

[vk007]

Irrespective of the divided opinion on the choice of gearbox, its absolutely ridiculous that this issue would recur. Particularly disturbing considering that KIA has had a splendid debut in the Indian Market and has literally changed the way the other companies look at us Indian customers.

Quick Q - was there any recent software update? Was the car sent for service recently? Also, IMO, please ask Kia for a detailed explanation as to why this issue recurred. Does it mean that the previous fix/resolution was inadequate? You may need to be a little stern with them and not allow them to brush this under the carpet while offering a solution. They should detail what exactly went wrong and whether this was addressed in the previous resolution.

Thanks for sharing the videos. I'm sure this will be resolved. Please do keep us posted. It genuinely helps us all.

[sandygordon]

Originally Posted by vk007

Quick Q - was there any recent software update? Was the car sent for service recently?.

Yes. TCU software was updated when I had the second issue ie first week of Jan 2020/last week of December 2019.
The car was sent for 5k service 2 weeks back.

[vvivek85]

Feel very sorry Sandy, wish you get a faster resolution. Isn’t this the same gear box which we have in Venue? I haven’t seen / heard any gear skipping issues reported in Venue.

[sandygordon]

Got a call from service center. As per feedback from Kia this is still a software issue. He told me about some learning protocols and said that they were not able to reproduce the issue on their test drives. They have updated the TCU as per directives from Kia. They said that the car is ready for delivery.

I have asked for an official statement / communication from Kia regarding this and have said that I won’t take the car unless I get in writing about the issue and how they have solved it. I have given them time till Monday to have a closure to this issue or give it in writing so that I can proceed legally on this matter. Anyway I am out of town this weekend. Seems like I will have to look for legal options here or correspond with someone higher up at Kia.

Question to the technical literate here.
Is it possible to have a logical error where one actuator fails to work.?
If it was so why only in my car?

[Sasanka_Sanga]

From the problem cited in this thread, my first suspect would be the Solenoid in the transmission. which is the way that your car's computer mechanically engages gear changes.

Second suspect would be faulty sensors, sending wrong data to the computer board which is causing the issue.

It is Kia's responsibility to provide you complete peace of mind by resolving this issue permanently and also to protect you from future gearbox related issues by extending the warranty (at free of cost) as a part of compensation.

[pgsagar]

Surprising to see some people still buying DCT/DSG fitted cars, despite there being so many reported issues. DSG/DCT troubled every car they sat in. Whether German, American or, now, Korean. Problem is not with these cars. It's with the gearbox. May be it's a half-baked technology, unleashed on us hurriedly before perfecting it. And, with future heading towards EVs, they may not bother attempting to perfect it now. BTW, to the best of my knowledge, there aren't any DSG-fitted Japanese cars. Is this why Japs stay away from DSGs? For that matter, there aren't any AMT systems either on any Japanese cars, except Suzuki. Probably only in India.

VW is moving back to Torque Converters (TC) in their cars, except higher models which would continue to come with DSG. May be VW reckons their premium models wouldn't be driven in b-to-b traffic as much as lower ones are and hence, no issues would be reported. May be.

As for the torque converters, this is the original and most popular kind of automatic in the land of automatics, US of A and Canada, since as far back as 50s, yes 50s. Saw tons of 30 year old Corollas, Civics, Accords, CRVs, Camrys in US. They all come with torque converters and are still being used as daily drivers. TC's reliability is phenomenal. And, over the years, they have improved tremendously. As for Kia, if I were to buy a Seltos, I wouldn't look beyond diesel TC or petrol CVT.

[SLK]

Originally Posted by pgsagar

Surprising to see some people still buying DCT/DSG fitted cars, despite there being so many reported issues. DSG/DCT troubled every car they sat in.

I own and drive two DSGs, one 5 years old, the other 6 months old (ALWAYS driven in bumper to bumper traffic). I never had any issue, nor did anyone I know of in person in any Audi/ Skoda/ VW.

This is an online forum, people post their complaints here and post it every time an issue occurs, but others who don't have issues don't come everyday and say, hey my DSG drove fine today!.

DSGs aren't as reliable as TCs or MTs, but they are more reliable than whole cars made and sold by some manufacturers! Its not a failure, as some people start to believe just by reading issues online.

DSGs are complicated and are harder and expensive to fix.

[manjunathkl]

Originally Posted by ron178

I wish Kia had used the 6-speed torque converter from the BS4 Verna/Creta in the Seltos too. Now, prospective customers are stuck between a boring but hopefully reliable CVT and a fun but unreliable dual-clutch automatic.

Kia offers its 1.5 CRDI with 6-speed TC Auto you are talking about. But petrol variants come with CVT and DCT only.

In today's date, there cannot a more reliable Auto transmission (atleast for Indian driving conditions) than the TC Auto transmission. TC Auto boxes have got a little bad name only because in India carmakers plonked age-old highly lethargic and inefficient TC Auto boxes till ~2014. Till the new-gen 6-speed, 8-speed TCs were launched, everyone was scared of TC Auto for its terrible mileage. The current-gen TCs are really efficient, good performance and with the superb reliability - it is a perfect balance. Also, TC boxes are simple when compared to DCT.

DCT is a really promising technology. It is impossible to not fall in love with such shifting speeds and direct feel. However, the main issue of DCT is heat management. Another issue is the shift predictor in DCT is not yet optimally tuned for unruly Indian driving conditions. E.g. You are moving at 50Kmph and the shift selector would've predicted upshift, suddenly some squid cuts your lane and you brake. Now, you expect the DCT to downshift and move quickly, in this case, the shift predictor's choice has to be dumped and make the change at the last moment. This is just one scenario, there are 100s of such things that can happen on our roads. And it happens over and over again, increasing the unwarranted wear and tear. In short, unpredictability is the enemy of DCT. In India, driving is as unpredictable as Rohit Sharma's batting. In any developed country where there is good compliance to driving laws, DCT is a gem of a transmission tech. Sorry, not for India yet.

CVT is opted by the manufacturers only for a higher fuel economy. The rubber band effect really kills the fun of driving. Also, CVTs cannot handle high torque as well as TCs/DCTs can. So, it is suited for low powered, light cars. Thats why Kia didn't offer CVT on Diesel variants. So, a car of the power and weight of Seltos, I will think twice to opt for a CVT in it.

Anyways, EVs are taking over the industry, it only a question of when. All EVs have single-speed transmission, so there is no question of whether it will be manual/auto. When EVs become mainstream, the need for a perfect Auto tech will vanish. Feel sorry for DCT, it arrived too late in the evolution of transmissions.

[vk007]

Originally Posted by sandygordon

I have asked for an official statement / communication from Kia regarding this and have said that I won’t take the car unless I get in writing about the issue and how they have solved it. I have given them time till Monday to have a closure to this issue or give it in writing so that I can proceed legally on this matter. Anyway I am out of town this weekend. Seems like I will have to look for legal options here or correspond with someone higher up at Kia.

Bollerdash! What rubbish! I'm glad you asked them for an official communication in this regard. Ask the India Head to issue it, not from the dealership. Are they trying to imply that you don't know how to drive the car? Ask them for a detailed explanation. They are trying to put it under the carpet. If they think the product is too sophisticated for you, then maybe they should just refund you the money with interest. Pathetic response! Please get that letter from the Manufacturer. It will help your legal options IMO.

Once again, thanks for sharing. This is a real eye opener for all of us.

[RaghavEvoX]

Originally Posted by pgsagar

Surprising to see some people still buying DCT/DSG fitted cars, despite there being so many reported issues. DSG/DCT troubled every car they sat in. Whether German, American or, now, Korean. Problem is not with these cars. It's with the gearbox. May be it's a half-baked technology, unleashed on us hurriedly before perfecting it. And, with future heading towards EVs, they may not bother attempting to perfect it now.

I had the same apprehension before buying my car, 3 years back. Took nearly 10 cars for test drive & the best was VW Vento TSI but I am not the one who can buy a Villa in a seaside knowing that Tsunami can strike anytime . After all , it's our hard earned money. So I settled for Verna 1.6P AT, which is a decent car and quite reliable and all the while has been a good silent companion.

It's all about the trade-off. Be it life or wife or cars !!
And the Universal fact - If you have to get something , you need to lose something. Nothing is THE perfect .

[shaheenazk]

Originally Posted by saisree

Either we don't drive it correctly or its not fit for our Indian driving conditions.

The former is the case generally. DCTs are not suitable for creep function as the clutch does not disengage completely if the brake pedal is not pressed completely. Clutch slippage occurs so that the engine does not stall. This obviously heats it up rapidly if done for prolonged periods in situations like bumper to bumper traffic jams. It is like riding a clutch in a manual transmission car. Why would one ride the clutch in a manual thereby RUINING it? Similarly, why should DCTs be driven like this in traffic jams? That's why KIA advises to depress the brake pedal fully. When the brake pedal is fully pressed, clutch disengages completely and there is no such issue. The moment the accelerator pedal is pressed, the clutch engages again and the vehicle moves on without a fuss. How hard can it be to do so repeatedly? Earlier two feet were required to operate the clutch pedal too in a manual and it had to pressed fully to change gears. Here in a DCT, only one foot is all that is needed. Surely, we can manage that !

It's good that Kia Seltos gives a warning if it continues be driven improperly thereby preventing premature damage to the transmission. In the user manual it states that if the transmission temperature reaches critical levels and the driver continues to ignore it, the vehicle will simply disengage the clutch and not engage till the transmission has cooled down to the desired level. It will even show the amount of time it requires to cool down! Technology sometimes really helps and saves you expensive repairs later on.

DCT owners would have to modify their driving habits a little in traffic jams whether in the plains or the hills. It's a fantastic piece of technology. We just need to learn how to use it properly and take advantage of its characteristics instead of criticizing it.

One last thing. I have read on the internet that KIA has revealed its new Smartstream 8 speed WET DCT, equipped for the first time in the all-new Sorento. It will make its debut on March 3 at the 2020 Geneva International Motor Show. It offers 58% maximum torque capacity thanks to optimum clutch cooling performance when compared to 7 speed DCT models.

I hope it finds its way to India soon mated to their 1.6L model instead of the puny 1.4L !

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g0voCVnbgK0

[Simhi]

Originally Posted by pgsagar

VW is moving back to Torque Converters (TC) in their cars, except higher models which would continue to come with DSG. May be VW reckons their premium models wouldn't be driven in b-to-b traffic as much as lower ones are and hence, no issues would be reported.

I think for premium models like Tiguan, VW is using Wet Clutch DSG which have reported less issues online compared to Dry Clutch DSG used in cheaper models.

[Sutripta]

For the purposes of this thread what is 'incomplete' pressing of the brake pedal? How does the system know it.

Regards
Sutripta