[theguardian]

First & foremost thank you TeamBHP for acknowledging my registration request & approving it.*

This being my first post, so ideally, it should have been an ownership report of my Nissan Kicks but saving it for some other time. Took the delivery of my Nissan Kicks, petrol XL model on 25th of April 2019 and since then I have been facing lots of problems. Let me ignore the niggles and explain a grave issue which I am experiencing right now:


Very hot air coming from AC vents

Now, this is a very strange behavior which I have noticed since last month while coming back from the office in the evening. My workplace is around 6 Km from my residence and in general, it takes around 20-40 minutes while coming back.


Since the weather has become pleasant in Pune, I don't*switch*on aircon, prefer*to utilize outside air (ambient temperature*- 23/24 degrees Celsius). My car starts well, but by the time I reach home, the blowers start*blowing very hot air with the temperature*soaring to >44 degrees*Celsius*and it's hot to an extent where it became*unbearable and I have to switch on the AC. If I correctly remember, once, the combination switch to control headlights became hot to touch.*


Sharing some statistics:

Route: Office to Home
Distance: 6 KM
AC status: Off
Recirculation mode: OffWindows Status: Rolled down
Temperature: >44 degrees Celsius*

Attaching the pictures of my aircon unit with settings and also the thermometer reading which I measured when the car was with me.

Now, this is abnormal as my 2nd car Hyundai Santro (13-year-old, 72000 on the odometer) has never exhibited such behavior. I got worried so raised this concern with the dealer and also the Nissan tech team.

Nissan FQM investigated the issue, submitted his report to their R&D department. After a few days got a surprising reply from the customer care team that there is no abnormality in the car and its roadworthy. I refused to take the car back.

As of today, my car is still with the service center (15 days to be precise, 6 visits so far in the last 4 months). I am quite baffled by their response so posting here to seek help/advice from my fellow*BHPians. What may be the reason for this behavior, kindly*help!

[Maverick5490]

With the AC switch ON, is the cooling of the car normal? At what temperature do you set the thermostat with AC OFF. It seems the heater is coming ON, blowing hot air. The service centre did not perform any checks at all?

Maybe you can do a similar test with their demo vehicle for comparison.

[theguardian]

Originally Posted by Maverick5490

With the AC switch ON, is the cooling of the car normal? At what temperature do you set the thermostat with AC OFF. It seems the heater is coming ON, blowing hot air. The service centre did not perform any checks at all?

Maybe you can do a similar test with their demo vehicle for comparison.

Yes, the cooling is very good with AC ON. And, as it's evident from the second picture, the temperature is set up at the minimum.

Service center people are tight-lipped. However, Nissan R&D team is terming this behavior as normal.

I did try with their demo car on 2nd September and found it to be quite ok but on that day traffic was also quite normal.

[Thermodynamics]

Originally Posted by theguardian

Recirculation mode: OffWindows Status: Rolled down

Did not understand the above, could you please elaborate.

[SideView]

Originally Posted by theguardian

First & foremost thank you TeamBHP for acknowledging my registration request & approving it.*

Could it be that when you travel this 6kms that the engine becomes hot and that air is pushed inside ( as you mentioned recirculation is off)

If i understood right you are using only fan + recirculation mode off, correct? (Without fan no air is meant to flow from vents, but i don’t understand why you are using fan with windows rolled down.) Am I missing something.


What happens when you are using fan + recirculation mode on in your trip?

[GutsyGibbon]

Does your car have climate control? Depending on the set temperature the air intake ducts may route air through different paths. If the set temperature is high, the air intake can be over the hotter part of the car, and when set to cooler temperature it may route it from cooler parts. (This is my guess based on observation, I have not examined/traced the air ducts to be sure)

I have the same issue in my Mazda. When I want to keep the AC off and run the fan, I set the temperature dial to the coolest setting. Especially in the evening when I like the outside temperature. I have noticed that setting the temperature dial to max blows very hot air.

[vigsom]

Originally Posted by theguardian

Very hot air coming from AC vents

Since the weather has become pleasant in Pune, I don't*switch*on aircon, prefer*to utilize outside air (ambient temperature*- 23/24 degrees Celsius). My car starts well, but by the time I reach home, the blowers start*blowing very hot air with the temperature*soaring to >44 degrees*Celsius*

Blower air is being routed through the heater core and hence you're facing this issue.

Let me tell you that the flaps to divert air through the heater or the evaporator aren't super air tight, and it is likely that you are experiencing the heat because air is going through the heater core and heating up.

You should be running your AC in cool mode as follows:

1. Temperature set to the cold range(blue indicator)
2. Recirculation switch to on position
3. Blower speed Auto OR minimum
4. Windows rolled up

If you want to enjoy the outside breeze, keep the AC off and roll the windows down; simple.


If you want to enjoy outside breeze with the AC blower on, ensure
1. recirculation is on,
2. blower is on,
3. ac compressor off,
4. temperature set to minimum and
5. air flow directed to front(not auto)
6. windows rolled partially down.

I don't recommend the recirculation to be off EVER, as it draws outside air through the HVAC unit, which will bring in leaves, twigs, outside dust and, in some isolated cases, water accumulated below the wiper cowl. It also serves as a path for rats to come upto the ac filter.

Please don't expect the service centers to solve this for you; they don't understand HVAC fundamentals.

[theguardian]

Good morning and thank you for providing your inputs. With whatever limited knowledge I have, let me try to clarify a few things:

Originally Posted by Thermodynamics

Did not understand the above, could you please elaborate.

Yes, sure and apology. What I meant was to keep the recirculation mode to off with windows rolled down.

Originally Posted by SideView

Could it be that when you travel this 6kms that the engine becomes hot and that air is pushed inside ( as you mentioned recirculation is off)

If i understood right you are using only fan + recirculation mode off, correct? (Without fan no air is meant to flow from vents, but i don’t understand why you are using fan with windows rolled down.) Am I missing something.


What happens when you are using fan + recirculation mode on in your trip?

1. Engine definitely becomes hot but don't think it overheats as I haven't seen any warning yet. So in such cases, the car's cooling system should kick in and should try to cool the engine. Be it, the coolant, the thermostat or the radiator, all should work in conjunction to keep the temperature down.

2. Yes, I am using the fan with recirculation mode off and outside air mode on with windows rolled down. Windows are rolled down to enable cross ventilation and fan to blow air on my upper part of the body so that I feel comfortable.

Right now I am driving my Santro to commute for the same route and with exactly similar settings but no abnormalities found. In fact, my previous car a 3rd Honda City also behaved soberly.

Nissan's owner's manual also suggests that one should not keep recirculation mode on for a long time.

Buddy, haven't tried fan + recirculation mode on yet.

Originally Posted by GutsyGibbon

Does your car have climate control? Depending on the set temperature the air intake ducts may route air through different paths. If the set temperature is high, the air intake can be over the hotter part of the car, and when set to cooler temperature it may route it from cooler parts. (This is my guess based on observation, I have not examined/traced the air ducts to be sure)

I have the same issue in my Mazda. When I want to keep the AC off and run the fan, I set the temperature dial to the coolest setting. Especially in the evening when I like the outside temperature. I have noticed that setting the temperature dial to max blows very hot air.

Yes, brother, I do have an auto climate control in my Kicks and in current weather conditions, I have set the temperature to a minimum as it's evident in one of the pictures of the opening post.

And yes your observation is spot on, this is how an HVAC module should behave. Cold/warm air when the temperature is set to minimum and hot/hotter air when set to high. But my car has failed to exhibit this behavior.

On 3rd September, Tuesday decided to take my car back so that I can try to reproduce the issue. Requested Service Station to deliver it. The driver came in the evening around 5:30, thought of taking up a joint test drive with him. After driving for around 4 Km, the air from the blowers started becoming hot and we started feeling uncomfortable, measured the temperature again, it gave me a warning of high temperature.

Result of the test drive: Requested the driver to take the car back. In fact, even he was surprised by this behavior.

Currently, I am in the process of learning about a car's cooling system as I believe one of the components in the system is misbehaving.

[SideView]

Originally Posted by theguardian

Good morning and thank you for providing your inputs. With whatever limited knowledge I have, let me try to clarify a few things:



Yes, sure and apology. What I meant was to keep the recirculation mode to off with windows rolled down.



1. Engine definitely becomes hot but don't think it overheats as I haven't seen any warning yet. So in such cases, the car's cooling system should kick in and should try to cool the engine. Be it, the coolant, the thermostat or the radiator, all should work in conjunction to keep the temperature down.

2. Yes, I am using the fan with recirculation mode off and outside air mode on with windows rolled down. Windows are rolled down to enable cross ventilation and fan to blow air on my upper part of the body so that I feel comfortable.

Right now I am driving my Santro to commute for the same route and with exactly similar settings but no abnormalities found. In fact, my previous car a 3rd Honda City also behaved soberly.

Nissan's owner's manual also suggests that one should not keep recirculation mode on for a long time.

Buddy, haven't tried fan + recirculation mode on

Until you are satisfied with the outcome do not accept the vehicle (since you have a backup vehicle already)

These dealers try to pass off the issue as “sir this is expected behaviour”

: how is your second gear pickup in low rpm? Since There is horrible lag in terrano 110 ps version at lower rpm.

[theguardian]

Originally Posted by SideView

Until you are satisfied with the outcome do not accept the vehicle (since you have a backup vehicle already)

These dealers try to pass off the issue as “sir this is expected behaviour”

: how is your second gear pickup in low rpm? Since There is horrible lag in terrano 110 ps version at lower rpm.

Thank you. That's what I am following.

Mine is a petrol one with 106 PS and 140 NM of torque. The 1st & 2nd gear gives a gentle creep up to a speed of 8/9 km/hr when the clutch is released but after that, you have to press the A pedal harder to move ahead fast as vehicles behind starts honking, so nothing inspiring or nothing like my previous Honda City. And if AC is switched on it really suffocates.

I can live with it as it was my decision after the initial test drive, but this aircon issue is really irritating me.

[theguardian]

Originally Posted by vigsom

Blower air is being routed through the heater core and hence you're facing this issue.

vigsom, brother you are correct. The air is passed through the heater core but in addition to this, there is another component which helps to vary the amount of air coming through the heater core and its called as the blend door. As the name suggests, it blends/mixes hot/cold air and then it's actually controlled by another component called an actuator often referred to as a blend door actuator.


The blend door actuator can be a motor-based or a cable-based. In my Santro, I am assuming that it has to be a cable-based and Kicks may have a motor based actuator.

As I am in the process of learning things in a better way, what I got to understand is that all the outside air flows via an evaporator, now if the AC is switched on, the air passing through the evaporator will be cooled and how much cold it should be, depends on how much temperature is set (a knob in my Kicks). As we change the temperature through the knob, the unit commands the actuator to open/close the blend door accordingly.

In my Kicks, if AC is switched on, it's quite chilling. If the AC is switched off, and even though the temperature knob is set to the minimum, I still get the hot air. And I just learned that the heater core sources its heat from the coolant.

So in the latter case wherein, the AC is switched off, my guess is that the blend door is stuck open fully/partially, so the reason for very hot air, can it be corrected? And if I correctly remember, someone from the Service center/Nissan Tech said that it's as per design. So if it's as per design, then IMHO it's flawed and needs to be corrected.

If I am wrong somewhere, kindly correct me, still learning.

[Jaggu]

Originally Posted by theguardian

vigsom, brother you are correct.
====
If I am wrong somewhere, kindly correct me, still learning.

Did you try this?

Originally Posted by vigsom

If you want to enjoy outside breeze with the AC blower on, ensure
1. recirculation is on,
2. blower is on,
3. ac compressor off,
4. temperature set to minimum and
5. air flow directed to front(not auto)
6. windows rolled partially down.

Usually in an automatic system, as long as temperature is set to cold, the warm air should not come. Unless the system is getting confused with defrost for window signals and resulting in hot air mode.

So trying the above mentioned step 5 and reporting back would be worth it.

[theguardian]

Originally Posted by Jaggu

Did you try this?



Usually in an automatic system, as long as temperature is set to cold, the warm air should not come. Unless the system is getting confused with defrost for window signals and resulting in hot air mode.

So trying the above mentioned step 5 and reporting back would be worth it.

Yes, Jaggu, I did try all the steps mentioned as suggested by @vigsom except the first one. Here are my settings:

1. recirculation is off, fresh air mode is on,
2. blower is on,
3. AC compressor off,
4. temperature set to minimum and
5. airflow directed to the front(not auto)
6. windows fully rolled down.

I can withstand warm air but I am experiencing very hot air from the blower with the temperature soaring to greater than 43 degrees Celsius. In fact, I have been advised many times now by the Nissan team to take the delivery (which I have refused) of the car and drive with aircon on.

Switching on the recirculation mode is not advisable for longer duration as after some time the air becomes stale, even Nissan's owner manual also suggests the same.

I don't mind driving with aircon on or with recirculation mode on throughout the year but that will be like, not taking any corrective measures for a problem which is actually a grave one and bothering me.

[Jaggu]

Will they be able to give you a test ride in another vehicle and see if the issue is there? I also suspect the diverter valve is getting open without the AC switched On. This should not happen and should be controlled only by the temperature control of the unit.

[theguardian]

Originally Posted by Jaggu

Will they be able to give you a test ride in another vehicle and see if the issue is there? I also suspect the diverter valve is getting open without the AC switched On. This should not happen and should be controlled only by the temperature control of the unit.

I had a holiday on 2nd September so visited their showroom and requested for a test drive, the SA was kind enough to honor my request. It was Kicks petrol top variant, drove for about 15+ Kilometers but I didn't find any such abnormal behavior. It was a bit warm but bearable.

And I test drove my Kicks the next day on 3rd September in the evening around 5:30 PM, the ambient temperature was 23 degrees Celsius. So within 4 km of drive, extreme heat was experienced and when I measured it with my thermometer, it gave me a warning of high temperature (>43 degrees Celsius).

And I did set the temperature gauge of my aircon unit to the minimum. Not exactly sure what the problem is, so that's why seeking an opinion from the experts here.