[LonelyPlanet]

This is on behalf of my work colleague.

01-Oct-2016- The day when me and my family where all set to bring this beauty home. This was our first family car.


As the saying goes, you spend a lot of time in your car so it’s as good as your second home.
So it took me sometime to arrive at a decision of which car am I going to pick for my dad. And after carefully analyzing, the one which made through the list of 5 was Volkswagen Ameo 1.2 (P) Highline.
Reason this topped the list was just the German build quality and its safety features though, many competitors where offering much better feature in the same price range.

31-March-2019- The day when things just turned upside down for my family.

By now it was 2.5 years old and had just clocked 15K kms with all the regular services carried out at authorized showroom only with no modification done at all.
Today I stand with total disappointment.


On this day, the parked car (in designated parking area) which has not been started for over a week lit up into flames on it’s own. The complete engine compartment was on fire. My mother had to see to horror from the window and my ageing father had to rush to douse the fire.
All of this was caught on home security CCTV.

https://youtu.be/0TsswMyj99Y

Once things were under control my dad immediately informed the local VW showroom (in Belgaum) and the insurance company about the incident and also logged an FIR as well.

And from this day the struggle begins!

01-April-2019
The insurance surveyor came down to our place and investigated the complete incident, as it was informed by the VW and Insurance team not to move the vehicle it was still in my parking area. The cops had also come to investigate for FIR procedures.

02-April-2019
The vehicle was towed down to the VW showroom in Belgaum.

03- 05 April-19
I had to report this issue to the VW management hence wrote an email stating the entire incident with pictures to the higher management.
Meanwhile, the insurance team visited and did all the investigations as per there procedures and had also asked the VW team to give a repair estimate.
We provided the timed CCTV visuals to VW team of the entire incident of upto 8 hours; which clearly shows no external tampering.

09-April-19
VW reverted back with an estimate of 9.5L-10L, whereas a brand new would cost less than that.

10-14 April-19
Lots of communication between me, VW and Insurance team.
I was demanding for an investigation from VW team asking to know what caused the fire, whereas the insurance team was not allowing them to dismantling the car. Here, again no great support from VW requesting the insurance for permission, as the reason they gave me was the insurance company is not their tied or preferred one.

16-Apr-19
The VW technical team visit was delayed multiple times due to various reasons between the Volkswagen and the insurance company. Finally, the insurance company agreed to permit the VW team for investigation. I was now somewhere relived as I was assured that now things are under control. But, later was proved to be wrong.

17-24 April-19
No further updates at all, as few general holidays and elections where near.

25-27 April-19
The VW technical team came down from Pune to carry out the investigation.

27 April to 22 May-19 (Almost a month)
No updates at all from VW between this period even after continues follow ups
After waiting for nearly a month from date of investigation I received a two page report without even VW header on it stating this is not a mechanical issue. Not sure how to react but was totally disappointed, the trust and faith I had on this brand was shattered. It was a clear indication that they aren’t taking ownership of the incident nor are they giving a clear cause of the fire.

22 May - 03 June 19
I have been writing to multiple people in Volkswagen management like the sales and the service head on the incident, but I get standard scripted answers from their customer relations only. The case is currently going back and forth with the local ASC verbally, with the route cause or a solution not seeing light.

I am yet to get any conclusive answers. Volkswagen is not owning up to the danger they put me and family into. It was our luck that we were not driving the vehicle nor anybody was inside it. It was a lucky escape.
My parents are still under shock as to what would have happened if they were inside it. The brand supposedly known for its build quality, is the reason I picked up this car. Is this the quality provided? I believe that we were just plain lucky to have not been in the car; unlike the few incidents were Volkswagen cars just light up resulting in passenger fatality.
How can VW just say, no manufacturing defect ?


I’m sure many of you’ll must have either gone through or seen similar incidents.

I am totally helpless today and looking for collective support to make VW accountable, if any of the Team-BHP members are aware of a solution to tackle global corporate giants like VW, please help me out.

[vishy76]

The fact that the car was parked for such a long time definitely points towards rats although I obviously won't rule out a mechanical flaw too. Having said that, a standing car catching fire is most probably due to foul play or rats only as:

- The engine isn't upto temperature. Its stone cold. A mechanical fault in this case is quite difficult to consider. If the engine was hot or the car had caught fire just after being parked or while the engine was running (has happened in most cases I have seen), it surely could have been attributed to a mechanical fault

- Rats can easily build nests and make the engine bay their home. They can bite into the wiring harness and cause chipped wires which can short and cause a fire

I think VW has also botched up the investigation by not keeping the owner informed. The best step would be to claim insurance and hope for the best. Its very unfortunate to see the car in such a condition.

The estimate given is also unrealistic. 9 -10 lacs for replacing the whole engine, that too a 1.2 NA and its ancillaries?

[AYP]

Have you tried to contact the director Mr. Steffen Knapp?

That being said, there is little doubt about the fact that we hear these cases related to VW and Skoda much more often that the other brands. Reliability and customer satisfaction has been an Achilles Heel for the VAG brands.

[procrastinator]

Feeling sorry for monetary loss. I am glad it did not pose any damages/threat to other things.
Fire means almost everything is destroyed. Finding a proof or root cause would take time and thorough investigation. I suspect if VW will do it as Insurance will eventually pay the damages.

It is best to take claim from insurance and buy a new car.

[ajmat]

I am not an expert but viewing the video and looking at the damage, it looks like the fire raged from the outside in. The plastics melted due to heat of bonnet yet lower part of engine is salvageable. The intensity of the fire is around the driver side headlight. I would tend to think whether the cover was set on fire.

Was anyone smoking or did someone toss a cigarette butt over? It could even be light magnification from a glass tile or similar

[ninjatalli]

The video starts (12:08) with the fire already there. What happens between 12:00 to 12:08, or earlier? There was a thread with a video of a car (engine) getting burnt on the forum; a few days later post investigation, it turned out to be a scam/vandalism, with the video that was shared turning out to be doctored.

A stationary car without any running doesn't really catch fire. I'd agree with @ajmat's points; maybe something from the outside in caused the fire?

And seems like your friend is expecting a lot from VW - basically he's assumed that something in the car is definitely at fault and VW will own it completely. Even if the former was true, the latter has very low probability of happening.

I'd say - ignore VW for now, and focus on the insurance to get the payout done. And yes, see if anything useful comes out from the CCTV grab prior to the start of the fire.

[Jeroen]

Your post suggest that VW is accountable. In fact you seem hell bent on it. And a very disappointed that they don't own up to this being their problem/responsibility. I am not so sure it is, sorry to say.

As the car had been parked for some time, it is almost impossible the fire started spontaneously by something breaking inside the car. It is more likely to be rats or other rodents.

Or somebody started a fire/let of fireworks near the car or something like that. As we have seen before, unfortunately.

Very unfortunate, never the less.

Jeroen

[dhanushs]

Are the insurance claim procedures taking place properly? If so, you don't really need to bother VW. Even if their technical team found a mistake, do you think they will own up and replace you with a new car?

Its a really unfortunate 'accident'. The best thing would be to follow up insurance procedures with perseverance and get the IDV in hand.

[2000rpm]

Originally Posted by dhanushs

Are the insurance claim procedures taking place properly? If so, you don't really need to bother VW. Even if their technical team found a mistake, do you think they will own up and replace you with a new car?

Its a really unfortunate 'accident'. The best thing would be to follow up insurance procedures with perseverance and get the IDV in hand.

Sensible advice. There is no positive outcome possible from this battle. Get the IDV in hand and buy a more reliable brand. A japanese one is typically better than others.

[shifu]

Originally Posted by dhanushs

Even if their technical team found a mistake, do you think they will own up and replace you with a new car?

If they can find and fix the problem, the purpose would be solved. It'll help others who drive this car, and are at risk unless the issue is fixed.

[Nalin1]

I am not doubting anyone's credibility or statements here. But how come every fire incident has the car owner blaming the manufacturer insisting that there are absolutely no other factors?

Manufacturing defects or mechanical faults are the least likeliest of reasons for a fire! Please don't get me wrong. There is an outside chance. But probability of other reasons are much higher.

Car parked for a week? Some of our members have already pointed out the most probable reasons above.

It is alright to not start the car for that period. But at least remove the cover, check the engine bay and keep an eye on the surroundings.

[pganapathy]

Basically in a car that has been stationary for a long time, there are a few ways for a fire to start.

A short-circuit, though finding the cause of this will require a proper forensic audit to figure out why it started. Is it a rat biting a wire, is it an extra accessory fitted where a wire was stripped/cut, is it just normal fraying of wires, is it a manufacturing fault.

Next is an outside source of heat like a cracker, cigarette, sunlight getting magnified and heating up a part of the car cover which then catches fire.

Another possibility is a slight leak in a flammable liquid from some part of the car, which then catches fire due to heat or a spark.

Some of these possibilities might be attributable to VW, but not all. Therefore, before blaming VW, we really need to figure out what happened. Is it possible the OP's friend is responsible, for example a cigarette or lit match tossed. Of course. But we really shouldn't attribute blame to anybody until we figure out the actual cause

[LonelyPlanet]

Originally Posted by vishy76

The fact that the car was parked for such a long time definitely points towards rats although I obviously won't rule out a mechanical flaw too. Having said that, a standing car catching fire is most probably due to foul play or rats only as:

- The engine isn't upto temperature. Its stone cold. A mechanical fault in this case is quite difficult to consider. If the engine was hot or the car had caught fire just after being parked or while the engine was running (has happened in most cases I have seen), it surely could have been attributed to a mechanical fault

- Rats can easily build nests and make the engine bay their home. They can bite into the wiring harness and cause chipped wires which can short and cause a fire

I think VW has also botched up the investigation by not keeping the owner informed. The best step would be to claim insurance and hope for the best. Its very unfortunate to see the car in such a condition.

The estimate given is also unrealistic. 9 -10 lacs for replacing the whole engine, that too a 1.2 NA and its ancillaries?

1. Rats/ Electronics short circuits: The vehicle is parked in an parking space of an independent house. Till date we haven’t sited any rodents in an around the house for over 8 years. Having said that, VW themselves after the month long investigation has also stated in their report that there is no electrical malfunction.

Originally Posted by AYP

Have you tried to contact the director Mr. Steffen Knapp?

That being said, there is little doubt about the fact that we hear these cases related to VW and Skoda much more often that the other brands. Reliability and customer satisfaction has been an Achilles Heel for the VAG brands.

Yes, I have included Steffen Knapp and Andreas Lauermann as well along with few other heads right from the initial email. But, all that I get to see is those scripted customer care replies.

Originally Posted by ajmat

I am not an expert but viewing the video and looking at the damage, it looks like the fire raged from the outside in. The plastics melted due to heat of bonnet yet lower part of engine is salvageable. The intensity of the fire is around the driver side headlight. I would tend to think whether the cover was set on fire.

Was anyone smoking or did someone toss a cigarette butt over? It could even be light magnification from a glass tile or similar

Originally Posted by ninjatalli

The video starts (12:08) with the fire already there. What happens between 12:00 to 12:08, or earlier? There was a thread with a video of a car (engine) getting burnt on the forum; a few days later post investigation, it turned out to be a scam/vandalism, with the video that was shared turning out to be doctored.

A stationary car without any running doesn't really catch fire. I'd agree with @ajmat's points; maybe something from the outside in caused the fire?

And seems like your friend is expecting a lot from VW - basically he's assumed that something in the car is definitely at fault and VW will own it completely. Even if the former was true, the latter has very low probability of happening.

I'd say - ignore VW for now, and focus on the insurance to get the payout done. And yes, see if anything useful comes out from the CCTV grab prior to the start of the fire.

CCTV Footage: I had to shorten the video just covering from the time fire ignited due to size limitation. The full footage is intact and a continuous footage of 8 hours (from 6am to 2pm) is given to VW on their request.

Originally Posted by pganapathy

Basically in a car that has been stationary for a long time, there are a few ways for a fire to start.

A short-circuit, though finding the cause of this will require a proper forensic audit to figure out why it started. Is it a rat biting a wire, is it an extra accessory fitted where a wire was stripped/cut, is it just normal fraying of wires, is it a manufacturing fault.

Next is an outside source of heat like a cracker, cigarette, sunlight getting magnified and heating up a part of the car cover which then catches fire.

Another possibility is a slight leak in a flammable liquid from some part of the car, which then catches fire due to heat or a spark.

Some of these possibilities might be attributable to VW, but not all. Therefore, before blaming VW, we really need to figure out what happened. Is it possible the OP's friend is responsible, for example a cigarette or lit match tossed. Of course. But we really shouldn't attribute blame to anybody until we figure out the actual cause

4. Outside source/Cigarette/Fireworks/Glass/Sunlight/ Magnifying glass - the car has always been parked at the same spot for over 2 years. No firecrackers/ grabage was burnt around. No smokers too. Nor is there a chance that someone throws from outside.
Additionally, if the fire was outside in...the entire cover would have burnt up much faster and so much of internal damage would not have happened.

Originally Posted by Jeroen

Your post suggest that VW is accountable. In fact you seem hell bent on it. And a very disappointed that they don't own up to this being their problem/responsibility. I am not so sure it is, sorry to say.

As the car had been parked for some time, it is almost impossible the fire started spontaneously by something breaking inside the car. It is more likely to be rats or other rodents.

Or somebody started a fire/let of fireworks near the car or something like that. As we have seen before, unfortunately.

Very unfortunate, never the less.

Jeroen

Originally Posted by Nalin1

I am not doubting anyone's credibility or statements here. But how come every fire incident has the car owner blaming the manufacturer insisting that there are absolutely no other factors?

Manufacturing defects or mechanical faults are the least likeliest of reasons for a fire! Please don't get me wrong. There is an outside chance. But probability of other reasons are much higher.

Car parked for a week? Some of our members have already pointed out the most probable reasons above.

It is alright to not start the car for that period. But at least remove the cover, check the engine bay and keep an eye on the surroundings.

My objective of raising this in the forum is :
a. If the bottom line from VW is "it is not a mechanical fault " do I just take that as the answer. Not find the answer as to why it happened and claim insurance IDV and pay the rest from pocket ?
b. Strong advice from the experienced members as to how to tackle this and my concern being addressed to the right way

[Epic]

Originally Posted by LonelyPlanet

My objective of raising this in the forum is :
a. If the bottom line from VW is "it is not a mechanical fault " do I just take that as the answer. Not find the answer as to why it happened and claim insurance IDV and pay the rest from pocket ?
b. Strong advice from the experienced members as to how to tackle this and my concern being addressed to the right way

Unless you can prove that the cause of the fire was a mechanical fault of the car / VW, the only option is to use your insurance.

P.S. - I have noticed that cars covered with car covers tend to attract rodents more often than cars that are left open. The major reason for this is due to covers preventing even a speck of light entering the car and also making the area warm and cosy which are favourable conditions for rodents.

[ajmat]

Originally Posted by pganapathy

A short-circuit, though finding the cause of this will require a proper forensic audit to figure out why it started. Is it a rat biting a wire, is it an extra accessory fitted where a wire was stripped/cut, is it just normal fraying of wires, is it a manufacturing fault.

Next is an outside source of heat like a cracker, cigarette, sunlight getting magnified and heating up a part of the car cover which then catches fire.

Another possibility is a slight leak in a flammable liquid from some part of the car, which then catches fire due to heat or a spark.

I find a short circuit difficult to believe as the electrics are concentrated on the passenger side of the car and the intensity of the fire is on the drivers side. Another theory is whether a rat nibbled a fuel line which runs on the drivers side.

Originally Posted by Epic

Unless you can prove that the cause of the fire was a mechanical fault of the car / VW, the only option is to use your insurance.
.

Fire from a mechanical fault only happens through fracture or friction. This car had been stationary.