[Altocumulus]

My home-office-home is just 4 KMS with my new job. However I have always been warming up all my cars before I start off atleast for 30 secs to a minute. Since both my cars donot have a temperature gauge, I wait for the idle revs to settle down a bit.
However I believe in the City there is some mechanism or feature which warms up the car faster.

[deep_bang]

Originally Posted by rohan_iitr

My car is 9 years old now. I do not have any sentimental attachment to the car. But I do want to keep it in proper condition so that it could provide me trouble free service for another 4-5 years.

Rohan

The good thing is that you have already used the car for 9 years and so a good amount of depreciation is already over. It's actually the best case scenario where your usage has gone down after the car has depreciated in value considerably.

In my view driving a few kms everyday is good enough and perhaps the cost of part replacements will be a little higher, but not prohibitive. Continue to enjoy your car and replace parts as and when they go bad would be my mantra.

[varunsangal]

Cars in most big cities operate in sub-optimal operating conditions. This is regardless of driving distance.

E.g. My office is ~25 kms each way, but I spend at least ~2hrs each way. Some sections are easier where I can go up to the limit 80 kmph, in others it drops down to an agonizing 2.5 kmph or lower. The last 10 km is covered crawling in first gear or simply sitting idle or moving 2 inches every other second.

Given the varied conditions within the city as well, it might be good to introduce an hour-meter on cars like heavy machinery.

Quite simply - An hour meter is a gauge that records elapsed running time of equipment.

Instead of relying solely on kms covered or time elapsed. Just check how long equipment has been running to maintain engine and running parts. Suspension, tires and brakes are always subject to visual inspection, so can be check and replaced as necessary.

[Jeroen]

Originally Posted by varunsangal

Quite simply - An hour meter is a gauge that records elapsed running time of equipment.



Instead of relying solely on kms covered or time elapsed. Just check how long equipment has been running to maintain engine and running parts. Suspension, tires and brakes are always subject to visual inspection, so can be check and replaced as necessary.

Its an interesting idea with one problem. There is no maintenance data available for car engines based on running hours. Only based on KM or Time.

So even If you measure the running time you would not know how to use it. Would you require to change the oil at 100 hours? A 1000 hours.

Lots of stationary enginessuch as generators, marine engines and engines on small plane have time counters. On planes it is called a hobbs.

The maintenance schedule of all such engines is based on running hours , irrespective of how the engines was used.

Although those schedules might have been adapted for specific use.

Jeroen

[varunsangal]

Originally Posted by Jeroen

...There is no maintenance data available for car engines based on running hours. Only based on KM or Time...

No maintenance data based on running hours for cars is a definite issue, but should not be impossible to create the data.

Note: I say 'should not be impossible', it would still be very very difficult, possibly thousands and thousands of hours of lab time, testing engines and failures under various conditions. Essentially rewriting the book on car maintenance.

[Jeroen]

Originally Posted by varunsangal

No maintenance data based on running hours for cars is a definite issue, but should not be impossible to create the data.

Note: I say 'should not be impossible', it would still be very very difficult, possibly thousands and thousands of hours of lab time, testing engines and failures under various conditions. Essentially rewriting the book on car maintenance.

Sure, be my guest, anything is possible, but the question would be, will it be necessary? Or rather, what is the problem with current maintenance schedules?

I havent seen any evidence that cars that are maintained on the current doctrine of km and or time have a real problem when it comes to maintenance?

Irrespective of how that car is used, lots of short trips and all. Manufactures design their cars and maintenance schedule for a very broad usage base.

Modern cars have already a somewhat more elaborate way of indicating when it needs a service and oil + filter change.

Just because it can be done, doesn’t mean we should do it. The new method needs to bring advantages over de current one. I don’t see a problem with the current method, not even for cars predominantly used on short trips.

Jeroen

[Turbohead]

If you truly care about wear and tear on your 9 year old ride, consider riding a bicycle to work.

1) You car will thank you! Using it only on weekends for longer drives will save fuel, reduce wear and tear and reduce emissions!

2) Your body may thank you(?) It depends-if the air is quite polluted, it may actually be a bad idea. Else you'll get a good dose of exercise!

3) On the other hand, don't worry too much- Hyundai's are pretty reliable, easy to maintain and easy to sell!

[Diesel_convert]

My previous car was a rapid, and obd logs from that car showed that the coolant never reached operating temperature without driving for 10kms. Even letting it idle for 30mins from cold didn’t do it. I can definitely tell you that short trips are much more harmful for diesels than petrols because of soot not being burnt away.

A really good way to time oil changes is by looking at total fuel consumed. I know that bmw uses this to dynamically calculate oil change intervals. It takes care of both the kms and the hours of idling. Since one way the oil degrades is by dilution from combustion byproducts.

Shortening the oil change interval should help keep the car healthier!

[NiInJa]

I think most points are covered above, what I've seen is that the car feels gruff every time you take her on short drives over a longer period. I make a point to take the car on longish drives in terms of time (like keep it running for more than an hour) once in a while so that it heats enough and charges the battery sufficiently.

Also try filling petrol with additives like injector cleaner after every few months, I've not experienced it on my car but my fuel injected bike had some issues of choking when used infrequently, it got resolved with good fuel and additives.

[bullrun87]

I have to do morning shifts quite a lot. In north Indian winters at 5:30am the first thing one looks for in the car is the heater switch. I have observed that hot air starts coming into the cabin only after driving around 3-4 kms and then I stay warm for the rest of my 12 km journey . Its safe to say that is when the engine has reached operating temperature. It's best to do a moderately long drive at least a couple of times a month if your car is not reaching operating temperatures during daily trips.

[Geo_Ipe]

Originally Posted by Altocumulus

. Since both my cars donot have a temperature gauge, I wait for the idle revs to settle down a bit.
However I believe in the City there is some mechanism or feature which warms up the car faster.

The Honda City has a little blue light somewhere in the instrument cluster which remains lit till the car is warm enough, doesn't it? My Jazz has it!

[Ambersariya87]

One of the noticable effect of short journey is reduced battery life. I felt that in my Polo. I used to have a 3km drive to office for 3 yes and I had to change the battery at around 3.5 yrs.

[Altocumulus]

Originally Posted by Geo_Ipe

The Honda City has a little blue light somewhere in the instrument cluster which remains lit till the car is warm enough, doesn't it? My Jazz has it!

Not anymore in 2017 facelift

[T1000]

Well, let me share my experience, my perception could be wrong.

I stayed close to office to avoid long drives in traffic.
I would reach my office even before i shift to 4th gear.
the distance would be around 2-3 kms.

Problems i perceived because of short trips.
1. Poor pickup, as the ECU "trains" itself to driving habits of short trips, especially after a service and a ECU reset.
2. Relatively high fuel consumption, again i blame the ECU's learning curve

I had a zen MPFI, I'm not sure if this observation was due to short trips.
I over react and get into lot of analysis to my cars problems :-p

[Jeroen]

Originally Posted by T1000

Problems i perceived because of short trips.
1. Poor pickup, as the ECU "trains" itself to driving habits of short trips, especially after a service and a ECU reset.
2. Relatively high fuel consumption, again i blame the ECU's learning curve

I really dont know if your car has such an ECU that can learn. Although modern ECUs do have some 'learning'abilities I doubt very much this would be very noticeable in the context of short trips.

We have some very knowledgeable folks on the forum when it comes to ECUs so hopefuly somebody else can chip in as well. I wouldnt think any 'learning ECU'would be doing much learning so to speak during the normal warming up of an engine. It doesnt make sense. First everything needs to come within normal parameters before you would start making adjustments.

Whereas a reset of the ECU restores it to default (depends a little bit on your ECU) it's not necessarily the loss of what it has learned. Although some people have reported issues with it, resetting things like long term fuel trim is, especially on older cars, probably much more noticeable. Nothing to do with learning your driver style, just picking up slack in various mechanincs and sensors so to speak But after a reset the ECU should figure it out quickly enough.

I dont think the poor fuel effeciency is due to ECU learning or lack of learning for that matter. All cars, be it diesel or petrol have poor fuel efficiency for as long as the engine isnt up to normal operating conditions.

The combustion process is just suboptiomal whilst the cllinderhead and cilinder are not properly heated up. The mixture might be a little rich, just to make sure it keeps firing. (remember the old chokes?) etc.

There is extra resistance as the eninge oil is still thick. If you google you will find that most sources will quote anyhing up to 12-15% less fuel efficiency on short drives. Personally, I think it could well be more.

If you use electric rear/front window heating the effect on FE for such short drive is of course much more noticeable too. (the same for all other types of loads, be it AC, heated seats etc)

So even if there is any effect of some learning of the ECU I would think it would be absolutely marginal compared the normal and expected fuel efficiency issue on any cold engine on a short drive.

Jeroen