[jusgetgoing]

Originally Posted by audioholic

If your AMT is running fine, please post that too since it will be confidence inspiring to know that not all cars will have trouble. Hence, please come together and post whether there is a problem or not.

Swift Dzire ZDi AMT - Feb 2016 - It has done 16,500 kms and touchwood (thankfully) has been working as expected.

There are minor niggles. The AMT gearbox is not butter smooth.
- There is a thud (on rare occasions), when the reverse gear is engaged. No pattern to it
- At very slow speeds, if not in the right gear, there is a moment when the engine revs. You have to ease of the accelerator and gently pedal it again

I have not experienced clutch shudder/judder so far.

80% of driving is done in the M mode. In bumper to bumper to traffic and on roads which require frequent shifting, I drive in the Auto mode.

Driving has been a breeze in the city traffic.

[Knowall]

WoW... Thats certainly alot of issues.. I have completed 41k on my Alto AMT and while the judder certainly exist, I have accepted it over driving a manual in traffic. The one thing that has caught my attention is that I have had to get my throttle body cleaned twice 17k and now at 40k as it has affected the drive ability to quite an extent by increased jerking on creep and acceleration through gears or sometimes no acceleration at all when you go from N>1.

Now my biggest issue is engine knocking with the AC on which the service center attributes to bad fuel. I am keeping an eye on this for now when I refill fuel.

[qr20de]

I have also faced this juddering issue, especially when accelerating from a standing start in 1st gear. I think it might the normal function of the ECU and control units, balancing the clutch with throttle input.

And its more of a sound rather than a feeling. The car has done close to 10k km but I'll keep a track.

[NiInJa]

This is an interesting development. I was thinking of getting an AMT car in next few months but will have to read more before jumping in.

I haven't driven an AMT myself but reading bhpians' post that AMT creates juddering in stop and go traffic I have an observation to make:

I drive a Manual Honda Brio, and when I am stuck in stop and go traffic, I have to press the clutch and release it multiple times, for the initial 2 or 3 such cycles the rpm drops when I press the clutch lever (so I have to press the accelerator a little for the car to creep), but for the fourth time onwards it starts reversing the process as in, when I press the clutch, the rpms rise for a few more seconds, and in those few seconds I just have to release the clutch again for the car to start creeping without the need to press the accelerator.

I guess it is some ECU thingy going on under the hood, and maybe AMT electronics are getting confused. Also, note that for petrol cars' creep functionality is severely altered by the weight and incline, so it must just be a confused AMT and nothing much

[a4anurag]

Car : Maruti Suzuki Alto K10 VXi AMT

The car has crossed 18000 kms and got a chance to take the car to work for a day and drive it 120 kms.

Was surprised with the judder I felt when the car moves after negotiating a speed breaker or slowing down to say ~10 kmph. At this time the AMT is at 2nd gear (which IMO is wrong gear). When I press the accelerator, the car judders horribly and increases speed. The car judders till it reaches 15 kmph post that it is smooth. Feels pretty irritating to be in that as the AMT didn't downshift to 1st gear as it should have actually in the first place.

Asked wife since this problem has been going on and she says it has been this way since 3K kms. The issue started since the car was 14K. I didn't know it all these days.

Have informed my SA regarding this issue. Let's see what comes up.

[vankito]

All feedback considering, it sounds like a issue with the ECU learning the drivers driving style - but may also be the clutch getting worn out early. Since we dont have a formal MSI notification on root cause - it becomes very unsettling for auto buyers like myself to jump-in. That said - my options are limited - Pure Torque Auto boxes such as on the Grand i10 etc. Or move the other end of the spectrum and opt for a TSI. Since Im planning to a Celerio ZXI (O) which is setting me back by 6.0 OTR Pune - I calls for due consideration and cautious decision making.

Thanks to everyone for posting issues. I'm still undecided whether to buy or not. The whole AMT has its value proposition - which will be probably be the deal clincher at the end of the day.
I did a TD of the celerio, and must say it was jerky and didn't feel right. That car had done 18,000 KMs.

[vsrivatsa]

Interestingly Maruti has plonked the same Magneti Marelli AMT in the Ignis and Tata has started to use the same same in the newly launched Tiago AMT.

Magneti Marelli AMT: URL

If the same AMT Gearbox is used in all these cars, then wouldnt even the Ignis and Tiago AMT also be at risk of facing the same issues as reported here?

[Holyghost]

Originally Posted by vsrivatsa

If the same AMT Gearbox is used in all these cars, then wouldnt even the Ignis and Tiago AMT also be at risk of facing the same issues as reported here?

Ignis and Tiago AMTs being comparatively new entrants, I guess we may have to wait for an year to get the correct feedback. Most complaints are from vehicles which have crossed 10k km.

[Shreyans_Jain]

Originally Posted by vsrivatsa

Interestingly Maruti has plonked the same Magneti Marelli AMT in the Ignis and Tata has started to use the same same in the newly launched Tiago AMT.

Both Tata and Maruti are sourcing their AMT kits from Magneti Marelli. But Tata was using a more advanced version in the Zest as compared to what Maruti was using with the K10 engined cars.

I doubt that Tata will take a backward step and downgrade their version of AMT for the Tiago.

[anand.shankar]

My brother has an AMT Nano back home, which I drive around when I am in Cochin.

No major issues with the AMT so far, *touchwood.

From my exp,

1. the AMT feels real crude when driven hard
2. if you go linear on the throttle input, the smoother the shifts get
3. there is no hiding the fact that its no proper automatic, you can feel every shift happening, the passengers don't feel it, but the driver sure does.
4. Manual mode definitely makes things better.
5. The Nano has the creep function, but I have never felt it kick it.
6. The Zest/Desire with the ~200Nm torque on tap felt much better with the AMT.
7. The Kick down is abrupt, sometimes the surge isn't predictable.

These are just observations recorded when manual driver occasionally takes an AMT for a spin.

[audioholic]

Originally Posted by Shreyans_Jain

Both Tata and Maruti are sourcing their AMT kits from Magneti Marelli. But Tata was using a more advanced version in the Zest as compared to what Maruti was using with the K10 engined cars.

I doubt that Tata will take a backward step and downgrade their version of AMT for the Tiago.

Can you shed some light on what is the difference between the AMTs used by TATA v/s the ones used by Maruti?

The reason for lesser number of issues reported by Tata vehicles is the numbers. Combining Alto, WagonR and Celerios monthly sales, we get more than what the equivalent Zest has sold in a year, the Tiago and Tigor being new like the Ignis and the Dzire. Hence, the issues reported also will be less.

[vsathyap]

I've had the clutch assembly on my K10 replaced at around 10K km. After my complaints fell on deaf ears at Kalyani Motors, and after nothing was done at the 1st year/10k/3rd service I escalated the issue on the feedback call and promptly got a response from the service center. The matter was assigned to the technical advisor there and he figured the entire clutch assembly was to be replaced.

After it was replaced under warranty, the car was behaving well for about 3500km more, approximately till the odo read 13500km. Now, again I am starting to see light judder in second gear at speeds around 15-18kmph and around 1000-1200 rpm and in D mode. This situation always happens around right angle turns at cross roads and intersections where the car slows down and the gearbox puts the car in 2D. Sadly, the K10 has poor low end grunt for which the TCU tries to compensate by slipping the clutch and the plates are engaged around this point. This is where the car judders. I can "control" this aspect in M mode and completely override it - but I usually end up driving more aggressively in the sense that I dont upshift till 2500-3000rpm.

I remember the technical advisor saying that Maruti has realized this issue and is offering clutch plates with a higher amount of friction material (i.e., a slightly thicker coating of the friction material) in the newer AMT offerings. He also said that he was earlier working with Tata Service for over 7-8 years and he saw the same issues in Nano AMTs - his summary was that the low powered engines with poor low end torque - highly tuned for fuel efficiency will have this issue - for sure - without batting an eyelid. Clutches are being sacrificed to maintain fuel efficiency. I dont know how far this is true or if its something to be taken seriously or lightly but by the trend of things and the purpose of this thread, there may be some logic in what the TA said.

Adding more material to friction plates is only trying to relieve the symptoms without trying to fix the root cause - which I think is a re-map of the gearing ratios for AMT cars. They should mandatorily be in 1st gear till 15kmph where the car has enough momentum and then switch to 2nd Gear where the momentum can alleviate clutch slipping and make things better - albeit at the cost of fuel efficiency.

Many people would simply ignore the judder problem and drive till the clutch doesnt engage at all while some would simply pay up when the ASS does a clutch replacement and charges them for something that's inherently a design/manufacturing issue.

[Abhishek3001]

Hi,
I have a 2013 Celerio AMT.I have been facing the juddering issues as well.Initially I was just minor judders in stop and go traffic and sometimes while starting to drive but off late it judders almost all the time in auto mode.
However,the worst it that at times it absolutely refuses to move regardless of the throttle input for a good 2-3 seconds and then starts moving and judders violently.

[slicvic]

Can this whole thing be driver related. We have a few owners who have said that they are having no issues whatsoever.

Clutch wear in a regular gearbox is sometimes higher depending on the drivers habits (not releasing the clutch lever fully)

Similarly could this be due to some driving pattern?

[vsathyap]

Originally Posted by slicvic

Can this whole thing be driver related. We have a few owners who have said that they are having no issues whatsoever.

Clutch wear in a regular gearbox is sometimes higher depending on the drivers habits (not releasing the clutch lever fully)

Similarly could this be due to some driving pattern?

More than a driving patterm I'd say its a traffic based pattern. Driving in heavy stop and go traffic in congested cities causes more clutch wear (either driving a manual or an AMT). I can say that my Alto K10 is being driven in thick rush hour traffic where going to 3rd gear is a luxury. May be the other owners can add inputs on their driving conditions as well and we can draw a pattern from that?