[blackstallion76]

Originally Posted by blackstallion76

Myself have 2019 New Swift AMT Petrol. 2 weeks back, i had taken the medium to huge road hump in 2nd gear (M mode - 1000 rpm) thats when i experienced initial judder and moved down to 1st gear. And the next day onwards this juddering in cold start is what i am experiencing. During this time, i had also changed my tyres from 165/80/r14 to 185/70/R14 apollo tyres.

Last 1.5 weeks experiencing AMT Juddering during cold starts. Initial RPM on ignition stays at 1500 rpm and after a minute reduces to 800 rpm. Even after allowing to settle the initial rpm, i experience juddering as road infront of my house has incline and i have to use A-pedal to move the car. Creep function just holds the position.

It is similar to half clutch with less power/torque and does not have proper clutch bite. After moving the car for good 50-100m, the juddering is not there and rest is fine for the whole day. This is particular during cold start of car in the morning. There is no jerk, its only juddering during cold starts.

When i called SA, he said the engine must reach optimum temp and hence takes time for AMT Clutch to set for initial period. But am not convinced. Will probably ask for Clutch replacement.

Also, lately i observe that the AMT Gear Oil level is closer to Min level rather being full to Max level. Just serviced in Nov 2020. Not sure if they should Top-Up or leave it as it is. Can we fill the 75W90 Gear oil ourselves if needed? I see black cap which is removable to fill the gear oil. Any inputs please.

[blackstallion76]

Hi Friends,
Need suggestion on the AMT juddering issue at cold start in Swift AMT VXI.
I am getting regular juddering at cold starts in the morning most of the times.

Does it warrant for the Clutch change? I have 4th service coming up in couple of months.
I would like to push for AMT change but SA is saying juddering at cold start is common issue across AMTs. Not sure. Pls advice.

[blackstallion76]

Originally Posted by blackstallion76

Hi Friends,
Need suggestion on the AMT juddering issue at cold start in Swift AMT VXI.
I am getting regular juddering at cold starts in the morning most of the times.

Does it warrant for the Clutch change? I have 4th service coming up in couple of months.
I would like to push for AMT change but SA is saying juddering at cold start is common issue across AMTs. Not sure. Pls advice.

After lot of deliberation, took to 2 MASS outlets to diagnose the issue. Initially, they were hesitant to consider and later checked keeping 1 day in service station. Next morning, SAs confirm this is normal for AMT cars.
Juddering is directly associated to the clutch engagement and AMTs have it including Ignis/Swift/Celerio etc. With juddering at cold starts and slight jerkiness in every gear change in manual mode, confirms its clutch issue.

Demonstrated to SA, that while shifting from 1st to 2nd (2nd to 3rd) in M mode there is slow clutch engagement of around 5-6 secs to give this time before pressing the accelerator pedal. If we press A pedal just 1-2 secs after gear change in M mode, it gives delayed jerk. Really bad. That too the gear change is happening above 2000-2200 rpm always and still find it not smooth at all. Common response is "Allow AMT to engage the clutch even if it takes more than 5secs".

MASS suggestion, its around 10-20% clutch wear and let it drive till its unbearable to drive with judder any further. No need for clutch change for now. Once it gets worse, they suggest me to change the clutch set.
Quoted around 6000 for parts and 2000 labour. I argued about this must be part of warranty as its under 2 yrs std warranty and its plainly rejected. Took to Works Mgr/Customer Relationship Mgr. All same answer.

This is the experience of Swift VXI AMT run 16000kms for now.

Am thinking of sending a strong mail to Maruti mains guys. Will see.
Did not expect even Swift Petrol AMT suffering so badly. I donno how folks are happy with AMTs. Never will think of AMT again.

[Sparky]

Originally Posted by blackstallion76

Next morning, SAs confirm this is normal for AMT cars. Juddering is directly associated to the clutch engagement and AMTs have it including Ignis/Swift/Celerio etc. With juddering at cold starts and slight jerkiness in every gear change in manual mode, confirms its clutch issue.

Your Maruti SA is trying to avoid the repair under warranty. You can raise the issue on their website, giving bad remarks for your repair. You can also argue if juddering is common for AMTs, why not all cars have it, especially new ones!

I have got the clutch set replacement free of cost under warranty, can send you the invoice also if your SA insist. And many in this forums have availed it I think.

The other thing to keep in mind is juddering might not be only due to clutch set, check flywheel also. Last time, even after replacing new clutch set, we had to regrind flywheel face for smooth working.

[kspv]

My Alto K10 AGS, after completing just 5,648 kilometres on the odometer, started malfunctioning. The yellow toothed exclamation sign on the dashboard lights up after driving for a kilometre or so after a cold start, and the AGS on its own down shifts to the neutral on stopping at traffic junctions and refuses to upshift thereafter.

I approached Mittal Autozone, Guwahati for rectification. They said that the AMT unit needs to be changed, and the oil inside the unit dried up. They said new AMT unit is not readily available with them, and took an advance of Rs.1,000/- from me. Later a phone call came from them that the part has been sourced. I took the car today, and the tentative estimate given by them for part change is Rs.9,400/-.

I wonder why the unit has been so poorly manufactured, and why Maruti is not giving a thought to it? If the AMT-oil requires to be changed periodically, why isn’t Maruti including it in their service-schedule? Is it normal for the AMT-oil to ‘dry up’ in 5,648 kilometres?

[blackstallion76]

Originally Posted by kspv

My Alto K10 AGS, after completing just 5,648 kilometres on the odometer, started malfunctioning. The yellow toothed exclamation sign on the dashboard lights up after driving for a kilometre or so after a cold start, and the AGS on its own down shifts to the neutral on stopping at traffic junctions and refuses to upshift thereafter.

I approached Mittal Autozone, Guwahati for rectification. They said that the AMT unit needs to be changed, and the oil inside the unit dried up. They said new AMT unit is not readily available with them, and took an advance of Rs.1,000/- from me. Later a phone call came from them that the part has been sourced. I took the car today, and the tentative estimate given by them for part change is Rs.9,400/-.

I wonder why the unit has been so poorly manufactured, and why Maruti is not giving a thought to it? If the AMT-oil requires to be changed periodically, why isn’t Maruti including it in their service-schedule? Is it normal for the AMT-oil to ‘dry up’ in 5,648 kilometres?

Nope. It should not dry up so early. If so, never pay a single penny and get it rectified by MASS under warranty. These MASS are fooling customers in the name of inferior quality of AMT units. Really bad.

Raise a formal compliant on their website. It will go to TSM and they will followup till its rectified. Dont compromise.

[blackstallion76]

Originally Posted by blackstallion76

After lot of deliberation, took to 2 MASS outlets to diagnose the issue. Initially, they were hesitant to consider and later checked keeping 1 day in service station. Next morning, SAs confirm this is normal for AMT cars.
Juddering is directly associated to the clutch engagement and AMTs have it including Ignis/Swift/Celerio etc. With juddering at cold starts and slight jerkiness in every gear change in manual mode, confirms its clutch issue.

Demonstrated to SA, that while shifting from 1st to 2nd (2nd to 3rd) in M mode there is slow clutch engagement of around 5-6 secs to give this time before pressing the accelerator pedal. If we press A pedal just 1-2 secs after gear change in M mode, it gives delayed jerk. Really bad. That too the gear change is happening above 2000-2200 rpm always and still find it not smooth at all. Common response is "Allow AMT to engage the clutch even if it takes more than 5secs".

MASS suggestion, its around 10-20% clutch wear and let it drive till its unbearable to drive with judder any further. No need for clutch change for now. Once it gets worse, they suggest me to change the clutch set.
Quoted around 6000 for parts and 2000 labour. I argued about this must be part of warranty as its under 2 yrs std warranty and its plainly rejected. Took to Works Mgr/Customer Relationship Mgr. All same answer.

This is the experience of Swift VXI AMT run 16000kms for now.

Am thinking of sending a strong mail to Maruti mains guys. Will see.
Did not expect even Swift Petrol AMT suffering so badly. I donno how folks are happy with AMTs. Never will think of AMT again.

Raised a formal complaint. Got a call from TSM Chennai. MASS took the car and kept for 3 days to work as per Maruti technician inputs. After few test drives, seems like juddering has almost nil now. The solution given by technician is AMT Clutch Reprogramming/Re-initializing within TCM module. It solved most of the cold start judder and throttle response is as good as new with quick creep function. So, far its good. As per technician, clutch has not wornt out and no contamination observed.

[josephilip]

Originally Posted by cityslicker86

I tend to agree with the above statements. I believe AMT is best for first time auto-box users, especially those who just want an easy to drive car and drive sedately. Those looking for driving pleasure will be disappointed. Manual mode does help in overtaking.

Regarding up-hill acceleration from standstill, I took the advice from the Celerio reviewers and used the handbrake method to prevent rollback, i.e. press the accelerator pedal slightly and then (quickly) release the handbrake. Worked like a charm, just like a sort-of 'Hillhold'.

I would like to know what happens in a very steep slope. A slope where the handbrake can't hold the car. They are not uncommon in our area (Idukki,kerala). That is my biggest concern with amt.

[ashishy]

Originally Posted by josephilip

I would like to know what happens on a very steep slope. A slope where the handbrake can't hold the car. They are not uncommon in our area (Idukki, Kerala). That is my biggest concern with amt.

I do not use this handbrake method. Instead, I rely on a quick switch between brake and accelerator pedal. Car rolls back a few inches before gaining momentum forward. It requires some support from vehicle(s) behind in case of high traffic density. This is demonstrated in the below 2 videos:

https://youtu.be/wINMM1eTjjc

https://youtu.be/5YppeQY3BK8

[mvadg]

Originally Posted by ashishy

I do not use this handbrake method. Instead, I rely on a quick switch between brake and accelerator pedal...

Originally Posted by josephilip

I would like to know what happens in a very steep slope. A slope where the handbrake can't hold the car. They are not uncommon in our area (Idukki,kerala). That is my biggest concern with amt.

There's an aftermarket hill hold device available in India called AutoBrake.

https://automateindia.in/products/au...ke-system-abs/

AUTOBRAKE is very different from the other systems like the HillAssist©, HillHold© or HillBrake©.
The HillAssist©, HillHold© or HillBrake© give the driver a limited period window (typically 3 sec) to release the brake, press the accelerator and start releasing the clutch. Hence in traffic jam situation on a slope, these systems are of limited help. These systems are also not very useful in the city at traffic signals, as the driver has to keep his leg on the brake pedal for the full duration of the signal. Most importantly, all the above mentioned systems are available only in high segment cars, typically above Rs. 10 lakhs.
AUTOBRAKE on the other hand, overcomes both the above mentioned problems in a single system. AUTOBRAKE has an infinite brake hold function unlike the 3 seconds in the other systems, thus it gives a driver ample time to press the clutch and start releasing the clutch. This also makes the AUTOBRAKE very useful for city driving. AUTOBRAKE provides a “Zero Rollback” in any situation, provided the inclination angle potentiometer is set correctly.

I wonder if anyone on TBHP has installed it (I'm guessing not, because we are all expert drivers ). I have a slushbox AT, and also drive a manual, so have zero problems with rollback, but a long time ago, I went for a test drive in a Nano AMT that alarmingly rolled backwards when I stopped it at the dealership, when I had assumed the AMT would take care of it. Could be extremely dangerous for novice drivers.

[josephilip]

Originally Posted by ashishy

I do not use this handbrake method. Instead, I rely on a quick switch between brake and accelerator pedal. Car rolls back a few inches before gaining momentum forward. It requires some support from vehicle(s) behind in case of high traffic density. This is demonstrated in the below 2 videos:

https://Youtu.be/wINMM1eTjjc

https://Youtu.be/5YppeQY3BK8

Thanks for sharing the video
Oh my god! I don't think an amt might be able to handle the kinda slopes i was thinking about.

[jomson13]

While we are on this topic, I would like to bring in the brake pedal here. I'm sure there is a good reason behind the shape of the pedal being a bit different in cars with AMT gear boxes.
Rather than using the hand brake, I use my left foot on the brake pedal to prevent roll back. It took a bit getting used to but works fine for me now.

I would not recommend this if you are not used to using your left foot on the brakes. You don't want to jam on the brake pedal like you would on a clutch. Its not a very pleasant experience.

[jetsetgo08]

Originally Posted by josephilip

I would like to know what happens in a very steep slope. A slope where the handbrake can't hold the car. They are not uncommon in our area (Idukki,kerala). That is my biggest concern with amt.

The AGS variants of Swift 2021 and Dzire (since 2020) are equipped with Hill Hold Assist which prevents rolling backwards for a good 4-5 seconds without needing us to use the brake.

Bought a Dzire over Tiago/Tigor for the same reason. It's a breeze to drive in the traffic laden hillocks of Hyderabad. Covered approx. 8k kms in the past 6 months.

As expected, there is judder esp. in the 1-2 gears, as the AMT is lazy to downshift from 2 to 1, resulting in a little bit of clutch riding, but it is mostly noticed when driving in traffic. No judder is experienced on empty stretches.

[Sumer]

Been 2 years of comfortable ownership with my Brezza VDi AMT. One practice which I always follow is to shift manually into 1st when I slow down to 10kph or less. In D mode, it keeps riding the clutch and refuses to shift to 1st even when the speeds are very low and it is clearly apparent that it rides the clutch. I feel the system is stress free at the cost a little more fuel via manually downshifting.

[qr20de]

My 2018 Swift ZXi petrol AMT with around 31,000km showed some signs of juddering in the last 1,000km, especially under around 5 minutes of cold start driving. However, in the last 40-50km, the juddering has been absolutely ridiculous! The whole vehicle literally shakes

Based on some feedback in this forum, I got the AMT ECU updated at the dealer's. Drove around 15 km after that and no issues. Tomorrow morning's cold start will provide the real answer though