[DrCar]

Hi,
Today I got the opportunity to drive my wife's WagonR AMT for a long drive of about 100 kilometers. The car otherwise runs for maximum 5 kilometers daily by my wife.
The car is a 2016 model and driven for 17000 kilometers till date.
Last free service was done around 12000 kilometers just before the lockdown. We don't have any free service left now.

I noticed a very severe judder when car is about to accelerate in the 1st gear. I even tried to drive it in manual mode and the same problem occurred in the 1st gear. The car was running fine thereafter in other gears.

Should I be worried about the clutch? Just realised that the clutch set itself cost 70000 rupees.
I also have another car at home which my wife doesn't drive as it is a manual transmission.

What should I do? Will the clutch be replaced under warranty?
The car won't have much of running in future. It will hardly run around 1500 kilometers per year from now on.

Would it be advisable to plunge so much money into clutch replacement when the chances of new one failing again is also high? or
Should I sell off the car and look for some reliable pre-owned manual car within the same budget? My wife is willing to learn and drive manual as her running isn't too much.

[archat68]

Guys what is the recommended interval for AMT fluid change? I bought a used 2016 Wagon R AMT run 30K KM, will change engine oil and coolant and brake oil. Was thinking whether AMT fluid change is required or not.

[Alterlife]

Originally Posted by DrCar

Hi,
Today I got the opportunity to drive my wife's WagonR AMT for a long drive of about 100 kilometers. The car otherwise runs for maximum 5 kilometers daily by my wife.
The car is a 2016 model and driven for 17000 kilometers till date.
Last free service was done around 12000 kilometers just before the lockdown. We don't have any free service left now.

If the car is under warranty, the service center will likely replace it under warranty, especially considering the low kms run. I had a similar experience at about 17k kms... my car has been reliable after that tuneup.

I think your estimate of 70k is off by a factor of 10 though. My (zeroed under warranty) bill was lower than 10k if I recall right. Think it was 7-8k.

Mod Note: Please quote ONLY the relevant bits of a post. Quoting a full, long post inconveniences our mobile readers.

[jomson13]

Originally Posted by Alterlife

I think your estimate of 70k is off by a factor of 10 though. My (zeroed under warranty) bill was lower than 10k if I recall right. Think it was 7-8k.

I second this, I cannot see why a wagon R clutch would cost 70k.

On the topic of the clutch judder - suppose it is left un-attended, will it cause any harm or any safety issues?
I realize that over time the judder will increase and the slipping clutch would reduce efficiency and acceleration but does it warrant an immediate fix?

[Yakuza]

Last Saturday our Oct 2016 Celerio Zxi(o) AMT suddenly lost drive in 2nd Gear and the Transaxle light came on. Basically the exact issue faced by member CharlesA that is there in the first post of this thread. Switched off the car and then after few minutes car started with CEL. Since I was close to Nexus A.S.S BEL Road, drove the car there. Since it was already evening, they requested time till Monday to see what is the issue. On Monday morning we landed up there and the Works Manager said they need to change the clutch and see if the issue goes. They did not seem confident, I then escalated the issue and the TSM directed me to RNS Yeshwanthpur and connected me to a senior Technician.

So Monday afternoon we left the car with RNS and today afternoon I get a call from the Technician saying the TCM has gone. They apparently tried with another cars TCM and drove for around 10+ kms. I then asked him what was the error in their Scanner when did the diagnostics. He said it was code P1906 which is a TCM issue.

Now here comes the kicker. My cars 4 year Extended Warranty expired less than 3 months back, and we have done only around 14300 Kms till date. Very low running for something like this to fail so soon.

The Technician and the TCM are both saying since my E.W expired, I will have to bear the entire cost, which comes to around 16000 (Part cost 14500 plus 1500 labour). I find this unacceptable because a critical part like this cannot fail so soon.

We've never had any issue with the car till now, not even the jerking/juddering that few have had. Car has been driven 75% of time in light traffic, solely by me and my Dad only.

Will be sending a mail to Maruti shortly.

[echo77]

We have started facing this juddering/knocking issue in our CelerioX ZXi(O) AMT Jan'2019 model, since the last week or so. The juddering occurs when we try to accelerate quickly in any gear. There is no judder when driven sedately. The car has run almost 40k in 2 years and was running pretty well and issue-free up until that point.

Will check with the service center sometime over the next few days and report back.

[echo77]

Originally Posted by echo77

We have started facing this juddering/knocking issue in our CelerioX ZXi(O) AMT Jan'2019 model, since the last week or so. The juddering occurs when we try to accelerate quickly in any gear. There is no judder when driven sedately. The car has run almost 40k in 2 years and was running pretty well and issue-free up until that point.

Will check with the service center sometime over the next few days and report back.

Took it for a test run with my usual service advisor, and he quickly pointed out that it is likely to be a clutch issue, and they would also test the AMT for errors. Had to keep it at the service center for a couple of days, where the clutch pad was replaced. There were no errors reported. The car is back to normal now.

All our other manual cars have not had clutch issues this early, despite being driven by 2-3 members of the family, so I am surprised that the AMT which is a controlled clutch gets worn out so soon. It's like the AMT computer is a much worse clutch rider than normal people! This makes me not confident to go for an AMT again, and will prefer ATs going forward.

[setuniket]

AMT woes are common across brands. Considering that the EW just expired, hopefully MSIL would be willing to offer goodwill replacement or atleast waive some amount in the bill.

IIRC, in case of 2nd Gen Swift, the headlight casing(rubber part) cracked/crumbled from inside without any external damage, just couple of months after expiry of EW(car was in 6th year). The Service Advisor took a day and got MSIL/OEM to clear replacement of both headlamp FOC.

Originally Posted by Yakuza

We've never had any issue with the car till now, not even the jerking/juddering that few have had. Car has been driven 75% of time in light traffic, solely by me and my Dad only.

Will be sending a mail to Maruti shortly.

[Dry Ice]

I guess an Extended Warranty is a must for these AMTs. Since they seem to throw up surprises mostly 2nd year onwards. I am in the process of evaluating an Ignis AMT for my 60+ parents, and this thread has been very helpful.

[audioholic]

Originally Posted by Dry Ice

I guess an Extended Warranty is a must for these AMTs. Since they seem to throw up surprises mostly 2nd year onwards. I am in the process of evaluating an Ignis AMT for my 60+ parents, and this thread has been very helpful.

As far as my experience goes, the AMT unit is not the issue, it is just the clutch that can wear out and give troubles. My Celerio has covered close to 50k kms in the most abusive conditions and the AMT unit has never had issues so far. It has been performing the same from day one. Clutch issue will come based on usage and few people do not face it. In my case, 50kms in bad traffic everyday was the reason. Once I reduced using the car for my commute and it was used for daily errands, ferrying my mum to her work where traffic conditions are better, the newer clutch has held up well over the last 32k kms done after clutch replacement. In my use, the clutch lasted a max of 10k kms before it started judder due to irregular wear. I did purchase extended warranty of 5yrs/1L kms which will run out this August. But in general I have not heard about the AMT unit failing in any car. Only one or two cases reported in this forum so far AFAIK.

[RavSam]

Originally Posted by Dry Ice

I guess an Extended Warranty is a must for these AMTs. Since they seem to throw up surprises mostly 2nd year onwards. I am in the process of evaluating an Ignis AMT for my 60+ parents, and this thread has been very helpful.

Do remember that AMT cars are sold a lot more than the other ATs and hence the % percentage of number of issues is more.

Also the people who review and post are majorly the ones who face the issue more than the ones who don't have any issue. That's why even the product manufacturers incentivise people to post good reviews if satisfied with their products because those who aren't, don't need any push

[Dry Ice]

Originally Posted by audioholic

As far as my experience goes, the AMT unit is not the issue, it is just the clutch that can wear out and give troubles.

Yes, that's what I meant. Basically AMT cars, not specifically the AMT unit. On this thread as well, there are a variety of usage patterns, some with very limited running. But still facing that occasional "judder".

The car I am looking for will also do pretty low numbers monthly, maybe a max of 500 kms. But absolutely none in crowded areas. The AMT is in the shortlist only for the comfort factor.

Hope there are no ugly surprises, but can't hurt to be prepared, so will opt for EW.

Originally Posted by RavSam

Do remember that AMT cars are sold a lot more than the other ATs and hence the % percentage of number of issues is more.

Also the people who review and post are majorly the ones who face the issue more than the ones who don't have any issue. That's why even the product manufacturers incentivise people to post good reviews if satisfied with their products because those who aren't, don't need any push

Yes, we do have a few AMTs in the family and everyone has been quite happy with it so far. One enterprising soul has even fitted CNG. But like I said above, can't hurt to be cautious. And at this time the only thing I can do is to opt for an EW.

[mvadg]

Originally Posted by Karadi

...
I feel that the only way to get past this problem is either to widen the torque delivery band or to fit clutches with bigger diameter covers & facings coupled with torsional springs capable of handling the three cylinder power pulses.
Meanwhile if any class action suit is being considered, we should all get together and ask for upgrades in terms of replacement 4 cylinder engines that WagonR is now providing for the AMT.

Originally Posted by ChrisTJ

If you ever get a tool like that, I'll be on your doorstep, begging.
I think Maruti is pretty proud of their setup and in no mood to improve the system.

Originally Posted by audioholic

And yes, if I ever get a tool to tune the transmission, there is nothing like it.

Originally Posted by jomson13

I don't get it why maruti tunes their AMT modules to keep slipping the clutch? Will there be such a major impact on the fuel economy if the car is allowed to shift down to 1st when needed?
I'm sure it won't be equivalent to replacing plates at 30k!!!

If its any consolation Toyota's MMT (Multimode Manual Transmission) seems to have an equally long list of complaints. I don't know if they abandoned it.

Seems like Maruti engineers are unlikely to make any changes to the mechanicals/hardware (bigger clutch, crawler gears, more sensors, AI) and are limited to tweaking the software, again without inputs like traffic conditions, route or sensors to judge the distance from bumper to bumper etc., that would involve added cost.

Tweaking will be limited to changing shift rpms and other limited parameters. I envisage Maruti coming up with a fix for the 1.0 L engines that will be done post purchase - upshift at higher RPMs disregarding fuel economy and do everything to reduce clutch slipping. Any customer who complains about fuel consumption will be dropped down to firmware rev 1.x.FE, those who are unhappy with the juddering will get firmware rev.2.y.SM

Those who understand what the AMT is doing will alter their driving style to serve their machines better. Just summing up after looking at the fixes reported in the posts above and the informative comments by technically inclined members.

[blackstallion76]

Myself have 2019 New Swift AMT Petrol. 2 weeks back, i had taken the medium to huge road hump in 2nd gear (M mode - 1000 rpm) thats when i experienced initial judder and moved down to 1st gear. And the next day onwards this juddering in cold start is what i am experiencing. During this time, i had also changed my tyres from 165/80/r14 to 185/70/R14 apollo tyres.

Last 1.5 weeks experiencing AMT Juddering during cold starts. Initial RPM on ignition stays at 1500 rpm and after a minute reduces to 800 rpm. Even after allowing to settle the initial rpm, i experience juddering as road infront of my house has incline and i have to use A-pedal to move the car. Creep function just holds the position.

It is similar to half clutch with less power/torque and does not have proper clutch bite. After moving the car for good 50-100m, the juddering is not there and rest is fine for the whole day. This is particular during cold start of car in the morning. There is no jerk, its only juddering during cold starts.

When i called SA, he said the engine must reach optimum temp and hence takes time for AMT Clutch to set for initial period. But am not convinced. Will probably ask for Clutch replacement.

[WriteAndDrive]

I've got a 2020 Celerio ZXI AMT. I've put in barely 2,500kms on the clocks in 5 months, and the AMT gearbox has had its fair share of advantages as well as a few minor niggles.

To start off with the good stuff, the AMT is a boon in the city. The compact dimensions of the car coupled with this gearbox is a real boon.

The shifts are well judged most of the time. On empty roads, you find that the gearbox does shift up to fourth gear, fifth needs a proper turn of speed to be selected 'automatically'. I always lift off the throttle to coax a shift, and I personally like the shift going through, especially when one is enthusiastic. However if you're driving an AMT after using a gearbox like a CVT or traditional torque converter, you will definitely find it cruder or simply more frustrating. My other car is a City CVT, so I can verify this. It is not a bad gearbox though, it feels snappy enough to be enthusiastic, and I love the feeling of using the stick in manual mode. Coupled with the 1-litre petrol engine which revs freely, Japanese engines for the win, it is definitely more exciting than a Kwid, one of the main reasons the latter was not considered.

My car hasn't felt any sort of juddering so far, even though these kilometres have been hard and fast. However, when one is parking the car, engaging reverse can take more than one try. This happens occasionally but even after you depress the brakes fully - you need to wait for the mechanical sound of reverse engaging and then the cluster showing 'R'.

The biggest irritation with the AMT is the failsafe system. If you may have observed, this kicks in when using manual mode, especially when your revs may be getting too high. The system can sometimes be intrusive, shifting up or down a gear when you need it the most. I took my car to a Team BHP meet held earlier this year, driving to Lonavala. In the ghats, I promptly switched to manual mode to hold onto lower gears. But the system did get puzzled quite a bit initially - shifting to a higher gear. Revving the engine later to build momentum is frankly frustrating and potentially risky too. In the city again, the AMT shifts to fourth gear too quickly, which again results in unnecessary downshifts, negating its purpose of getting the best fuel economy (going by the on-board consumption, I get between 13 to 16 kmpl in city conditions). You really have to alter your driving style a bit, keeping a low consistent speed without trying to touch the brakes much. Small breakers are often coasted through. At times I use the manual mode entirely, going up and down the box to reduce the AMT's indecisiveness.

While the brakes work quite well, I'm a bit concerned about their wear and tear, especially due to the additional amount of abuse which I felt was subjected to them using this gearbox. The brake pedal feel after heavy traffic jams can feel a bit inconsistent, but there's no effect on the effectiveness. I have similar concerns with the clutch wear too due to the gearbox, but I still remain optimistic.

Really feel Maruti should get an AMT 2.0, make it in-house, like Hyundai, and learn from these missteps. Even the current gearbox, let's be honest, does a fine job - but it has inconsistencies and you do feel that there is a whole lot of scope for improvement. That said, it is a fairly decent halfway-house between manuals and proper TC, CVT automatics. I wouldn't want to dissuade anyone from considering it if you're looking to buy one of these.

PS: Going off topic, what's with the spec and equipment levels of Maruti AMTs? I know this won't be the most relevant thread for that, but in my observation, the AMTs simply do not come with all the top-spec bells and whistles as their cheaper, manual counterparts. My ZXI AMT cost more than the top spec ZXI manual - yet it did not get the fog lamps (got them fitted from MGA), a driver seat height adjuster, or most importantly - alloy wheels! It felt infuriating on a level, to be short-changed for the equipment. The trim/spec level spread just feels illogical. Apologies for the rant, but this is 'my' first car and cannot help but get a bit attached to it.