[sam_sant2005]

Originally Posted by sam_sant2005

Need your suggestion and advice on what could have gone wrong and what might be the fix.

UPDATE: They had disconnected the battery during service so this caused the ECU to reset and in turn one of the critical parameters relating to Engine rpm min and max had an issue. So this was causing the rpm to rise in between gear shifts as well as during braking. They connected their Unit to the vehicle and made the correction and now it is all good.

It is worth noting that on most AMT's it seems this can happen and people mistake it for worn clutch (since basic issue is jerking). And who knows, lot of people might have been actually been fooled as well. I did the escalation so got a proper evaluation and fix. Now the car is running very normal. And I gave her a gift too - a new set of Bridgestones, upsized to 165 65 R13

[Lightning2]

HI Iamtrk
You should share the exact display in LCD screen. What do you mean by "Undefined state" ?? It will be N, numeric 1,2,3,4 or R
In ACC and ON mode many times Car does NOT shifts gear from R to N or 1 to N ( even when you place the Gear lever in N slot physically.

For such cases you have to Press the Brake and CRANK the ignition switch. Once the Ignition fires AMT module shifts the Gear from R to N or 1 to N (whatever). IF there is NO Pressure in master Brake cylinder then system does not detect sufficient Depression of Brake Pedal, therefore you have to Press the Brake Lever very Hard and Crank the Ignition key.

If nothing is working simply Reboot the Car by disconnecting Battery for 10 minutes. Thanks

Originally Posted by iamtrk

So, today morning I got not so pleasant surprise, my Ignis AMT Zeta model is not starting !
Apparently the gear indicator is stuck in some undefined state & the ignition needs the gear to be in N to fireup. It is a 13 months old car with 12K on odo. My maintenance has been top notch.
I usually park with gear slotted to reverse as my parking has slight incline(as recommended in owners manual).
The mechanical movement of the gear is fine, my parking has a slight incline & the car started rolling when I had slotted the gear stick to N.

Is there anything that I can do to reset the gear indicator or should I call ASS ?

[bpnpmr]

I have been driving Wagon R (2017 make) AMT Vxi. I was initially using the Auto gear and for the last 3000 Km the car is running in the M mode (Manual), this was done primarily in view of:

1. There was a lag when shifting from 1st to 2nd gear in the auto mode.
2. With the car in 2nd gear, it would take more time to shift to 1st while braking, this was causing issue in moderate to heavy traffic junctions.
3. The car would tend to roll back on incline - again causing issues in bumper to bumper traffic.

That being said, with Manual mode I have faced no major issues and the gear shifts are smooth. The car rarely rolls back on the incline now. I do not use the hand brake on incline. With the car in M1, I shift quickly from brake to accelerator pedal and light pressure is enough to get the car going on the incline.

[blackwasp]

Thanks to Utkarsh Rastogi for sending this information in. Heartfelt gratitude for sharing it with other enthusiasts via this Team-BHP page!

Utkarsh shares the following with us:

Hello friends...this is my first post in this forum, so please do forgive me for any mistakes made. In today’s day to day traffic most of the car buyers are now leaning towards automatic transmissions. The same was the scenario with me when I made a purchase of my Vitara Brezza ZDI plus AMT last year i.e. on 22nd Nov 2018. Although I was not in a mood to buy an AMT because when I took the test drive for the same, I wasn’t convinced with the overall performance. Infact, it was the first time I bought an automatic transmission vehicle. For more information, I asked my friend who is currently using a Verna diesel AT. I know there is whole change in technology in both the transmissions, but still as per his guidance and after facing a lot of bumper to bumper traffic in Lucknow, I made up my mind and opted for the AMT version of Brezza.

Everything was going great and infact I was enjoying the drive till I have clocked 28000 km within a year’s time (since my run is mostly on highways). After 28000 km I started to face the problem with the gearbox. When in traffic, the car is picking up with jerks. Also the car wasn’t shifting from 2nd to 1st until and unless it is at a complete halt.. Ok you might say that downshifting to 1st would happen at a complete halt position, Agreed! But if the car is crawling in 2nd gear in a slow moving traffic, then why it is jerking when being accelerated???

When I took the vehicle for the 3rd service, I informed the SA for the same, and after diagnosing the vehicle, he told me that my clutch plates have started to worn out, and I should get it done before I complete 40000 km, as there no EW on my vehicle. I was totally shocked. Also he told me that he has to check whether the clutch plates are covered under warranty or not. On this, I countered him saying since it is an AMT vehicle, the clutch should come under warranty, because the gear shifts take place according to the system - integrated automatically or whatever the technology is involved. I know that clutch plates are not covered under warranty from the day one of the purchase of manual vehicle, but I don’t think that this should be the same for auto transmissions. Well I am not well aware of the facts in this issue, that’s why I was seeking help from you guys, so that I could get a proper guidance in my issue.

Also I wanted to know that whether I have made a mistake in purchasing an AMT version? Please help out.

[jomson13]

Originally Posted by blackwasp

Thanks to Utkarsh Rastogi for sending this information in. Heartfelt gratitude for sharing it with other enthusiasts via this Team-BHP page!

Utkarsh shares the following with us:

I don't get it why maruti tunes their AMT modules to keep slipping the clutch? Will there be such a major impact on the fuel economy if the car is allowed to shift down to 1st when needed?
I'm sure it won't be equivalent to replacing plates at 30k!!!

[smileline]

Originally Posted by blackwasp

Thanks to Utkarsh Rastogi for sending this information in. Heartfelt gratitude for sharing it with other enthusiasts via this Team-BHP page!

Utkarsh shares the following with us:

HI, I drive a Brezza ZDi+ AGS, and have clocked 7000km, I like Utkarsh Rastogi mainly drive on highways. Till now no issues with AMT, the post creates a bit of uneasiness, and doubt regarding the reliability of AMTs on the Brezza. Wanted to know what was the progress regarding the issue with car and what was the final outcome at the service centre regarding the replacement of clutch at the after sales and service, with regard to the warranty.

Thanks.

[blackwasp]

Originally Posted by smileline

HI, I drive a Brezza ZDi+ AGS, and have clocked 7000km, I like Utkarsh Rastogi mainly drive on highways. Till now no issues with AMT, the post creates a bit of uneasiness, and doubt regarding the reliability of AMTs on the Brezza.

Not commenting on Utkarsh's experience, but from my time with Maruti and from friends working there, the diesel AMTs are not facing any issue - or at least not as much as petrol for sure. So along as you are driving as recommenced, it shouldn't cause any issues.

[archat68]

A Maruti Ignis Zeta AMT, petrol owner here. Driven almost 10000Km in 2 year mostly in the city. No issues in particular with the AMT.

[SPARKled]

It's frankly a known fact that AMT rides on the clutch a lot more than one would manually ever do while driving on the same road and in same conditions. So this quick wear and tear of clutch plates is pretty common phenomenon across most AMT cars. I guess this is the price one pays for buying a jugaad Auto over a proper Auto car.

[Bibendum90949]

I had owned a celerio AMT which I used for 5 years and sold it last year. I've faced the same issue of juddering and clutch slippage. It first reared its head when the car had done some 1800 kms and 6 months. When I complained it during the car's service they did some calibration and it worked fine for few hundred kms before the issue resurfaced. They did calibration again and this game continued for few more months after which I had put my feet down and demanded clutch assembly replacement and refused to take the car back from the service centre. They budged and did the replacement. The car ran for another 4k kms( car is only used in city , hence the number of hours it is used should be taken into account though not the distance it has clocked ) or so without any hiccup. The problem started to appear again. I was busy with my work and didn't quite persuade them to check further. They did calibration again with its subsequent service. History repeated itself. Finally sold the car last year. I knew of two more celerio owners in my living complex who faced the same issues.

I always wondered despite an inherent flaw in Maruti AMT' s how did they manage to sell so many units ? I would never recommend AMT to anyone. It's always jerky and unpredictable with the gear shifts.

[vsrivatsa]

Originally Posted by smileline

HI, I drive a Brezza ZDi+ AGS, and have clocked 7000km, I like Utkarsh Rastogi mainly drive on highways. Till now no issues with AMT, the post creates a bit of uneasiness, and doubt regarding the reliability of AMTs on the Brezza.

In general the combination of a 4 cylinder Engine with the AMT has had very less failures as compared to the combination of 3 cylinder Engine with the same AMT Module. So, I would say, relax, do not worry but do buy the Extended Warranty anyways for peace of mind

Originally Posted by blackwasp

Not commenting on Utkarsh's experience, but from my time with Maruti and from friends working there, the diesel AMTs are not facing any issue - or at least not as much as petrol for sure. So along as you are driving as recommenced, it shouldn't cause any issues.

Not just Diesel, even Petrol AMTs when mated with 4 cylinder engines the failure rate is very less.

Originally Posted by archat68

A Maruti Ignis Zeta AMT, petrol owner here. Driven almost 10000Km in 2 year mostly in the city. No issues in particular with the AMT.

In the same boat and I have clocked 16,000 kms with a Ignis Delta (P) AMT and no issues so far.

Originally Posted by Bibendum90949

I had owned a celerio AMT which I used for 5 years and sold it last year. I've faced the same issue of juddering and clutch slippage.

Like I have said above, the failure rate on the combination of AMT + 3 cylinder engine is very high. Maruti is pushing things forward by doing silent replacements whenever customer complains.

[audioholic]

Originally Posted by vsrivatsa

In general the combination of a 4 cylinder Engine with the AMT has had very less failures as compared to the combination of 3 cylinder Engine with the same AMT Module.
Not just Diesel, even Petrol AMTs when mated with 4 cylinder engines the failure rate is very less.
Like I have said above, the failure rate on the combination of AMT + 3 cylinder engine is very high.

Its not got to do with the number of cylinders that the AMT develops issue. Its more of an engine characteristic where the K10 has bad low end torque. With such an engine, achieving the perfect transmission calibration is difficult especially with the AMT. To reduce the effect of the lack of low end torque, the clutch is excessively slipped in the second gear which is the most used in urban traffic. That makes the clutch plates develop the judder prematurely.

The K12 engine has quite good low end torque and can pull in second gear without slipping the clutch. The clutch dia is also higher which increases the friction area. Thats the reason there arent much of juddering issues with this engine. Same thing with a diesel engine because of the good low end torque as well as a stronger clutch to handle that torque. The AMT unit itself does not have any issues or failures off late. It is just in the initial days of the AMT that there were some teething issues and it led to the transmission going non responsive.

[vsrivatsa]

Originally Posted by audioholic

Its not got to do with the number of cylinders that the AMT develops issue. Its more of an engine characteristic where the K10 has bad low end torque. The K12 engine has quite good low end torque and can pull in second gear without slipping the clutch.

You maybe correct. Most manufacturers seem to have got the AMT wrong on the initial attempt. We have other threads as well on this forum that are reporting several issues on AMTs.

More reports here:
1. > (Tata Tiago/Tigor AMT: Driveability issues)

2. >

3. > (Hyundai Santro : Official Review)

But then there does not seem to be any better alternatives in the price range.

Originally Posted by audioholic

The AMT unit itself does not have any issues or failures off late. It is just in the initial days of the AMT that there were some teething issues and it led to the transmission going non responsive.

Are you saying the newer cars with the same combination of K10 and AMT are now, no more having issues or was your statement just about your own car? Could you also share some background/data points/source on the context of making this statement since that would help others who are in the process of putting their money on AMTs?

[audioholic]

Originally Posted by vsrivatsa

Are you saying the newer cars with the same combination of K10 and AMT are now, no more having issues or was your statement just about your own car? Could you also share some background/data points/source on the context of making this statement since that would help others who are in the process of putting their money on AMTs?

It depends on which issue you want to talk about. There are two different issues. Issue with the AMT unit itself and issue with the clutch. Issue with AMT was there in the initial AMT cars but they were sorted out in the long run. What is different is the issue with the clutch with the K10 engine which will cause juddering. This is what I mentioned in the earlier post also. This is nothing to do with my car alone, since my car has neither faced any AMT failure in spite of being abused properly. The only issue I face is with the clutch which has seen its share of replacements till date. These updates are from various sources and interactions I have had till date with different people right from owners, Bhpians, industry contacts. However, I don't think someone should put their money based on my claim or recommendation. I personally would never want to put an advisors hat no matter how accurate my claim may be. I just share info that I know.

[jomson13]

Originally Posted by Bibendum90949

I always wondered despite an inherent flaw in Maruti AMT' s how did they manage to sell so many units ? I would never recommend AMT to anyone. It's always jerky and unpredictable with the gear shifts.

I can think of these reasons:

1. People did not know how AMT cars should behave at the time of buying. Most of them would not know the difference between the AMT and the CVT's on offer.

2. Maruti's have never been known for their ride quality or NVH characteristics, most of the owners would be brushing aside these problems as long as the mileage is proper!

3. I would disagree on the unpredictable part - I've had a AMT celerio for the last 3 years now and have been driving it in the city as well as on the highways. I would say that the shifts are very predictable. There have been many instances when I'm about to overtake and I know that the car will upshift (halfway into the overtake) so I give the accelerator a quick blip to make the car downshift before I begin my overtake, its quite response to the blip and I find it to be a very useful feature.