[audioholic]

Originally Posted by vsrivatsa

Interesting discussion. Now the only thing I am not able to figure out is how the Tiago owners do not seem to be complaining as much as the Celerio owners. I am sure not all Tiago owners use the car only in Sportz mode. How has Tata managed to overcome this issue in the Tiago with a 3 cylinder engine?

There can be multiple possibilities that I can think of.

• Because of the engine torque delivery, the calibration might be different and it wont slip clutch in 2nd.
• Tiago is a relatively new car compared to the Celerio. These AMTs behave very well when they are new and get cranky only after sometime.
• Number of Celerio owners around is far greater than that of Tiago. Hence these issues are more widely detected and reported.

All in all, the AMT module seems fairly reliable to me, except for this clutch issue.

[vinjosep]

A close relative is planning to go for Brezza AMT.

Do we have any owners of Brezza AMT here? If yes, how's the experience so far? Any insights on how Brezza AMT has fared in real world scenario would be of immense help for the purchase decision.

Thanks.

[th2]

My Ignis with AMT had the same juddering issue in 1st gear over the last month. In my case, the tire pressure was quite below the recommended figures. After proper tire inflation, starting from rest has become a lot smoother.

This may not be the same issue others are facing, but at least in my case I think underinflated tires were increasing load on the engine and subsequently messing with how the AMT has been calibrated.

[cityslicker86]

Hello BHPians, can I ask your advice on an issue with my Celerio?

My Celerio (bought in Apr 2017, 9500 Km done) is behaving strangely. On 15th July, while driving late at night with my sister and my brother-in-law, both him and I noticed that the engine literally SNARLs when accelerating after gear change. After reaching their home, we opened the bonnet and we could hear a very faint flapping sound from the engine bay while the engine was running. I was concerned but it was late so I drove home slowly after that and parked the car for good.

On 20th July (I didn't use the car in the mean time), I took the vehicle to Maruti A.S.S and the SA drove it around for 15 min or so. He said everything was fine. We then parked it in a quiet lane and opened to boot while leaving the engine on. Again, he couldn't spot anything and said everything is fine. I was not fully convinced, but I took his advice and started using the car again (the car was in A.S.S till 24th for a bumper repair job. Brought it home on 24th). I have used the car 2-3 time since.

Today morning, while parking the car in the basement parking of my office (its very quiet there), I noticed that when I turn the engine on, sometimes there's a noise of some sort of motor revving up. It's loud-ish, happens for a few seconds then it settles. I thought it was the engine revving up, but the tacho needle was under 1000. Its sounded like there is another motor in there that's making this noise.

The drive is no longer smooth and the engine seems feels under-powered. I'm having to step on the throttle a bit. Gear shifts upto 3rd gear are happening at ~2200 RPM. I'm not sure if that is too high.

Can I request the knowledgeable members of this forum to guide me on what could be wrong and what I must/mustn't do? Visiting Maruti A.S.S doesn't seem to help. The car is under extended warranty period till next year.

Thanks in advance!

[Rahul Bhalgat]

Originally Posted by cityslicker86

Today morning, while parking the car in the basement parking of my office (its very quiet there), I noticed that when I turn the engine on, sometimes there's a noise of some sort of motor revving up. It's loud-ish, happens for a few seconds then it settles. I thought it was the engine revving up, but the tacho needle was under 1000. Its sounded like there is another motor in there that's making this noise.

The drive is no longer smooth and the engine seems feels under-powered. I'm having to step on the throttle a bit. Gear shifts upto 3rd gear are happening at ~2200 RPM. I'm not sure if that is too high.

The other noise you heard could be from the radiator fan motor, which is a separate motor. This motor keeps turning on and off depending upon the coolant temperature.

I don't have a first hand experience of Celerio AMT. But most auto transmission cars upshift at 2000 rpm in D mode and 2500 rpm on S mode. You can check with the service advisor or with the other members of the forum

[mayankk]

So this happened with my mom's Stingray.
The gearbox mounting gave way, and it fell on the axle, breaking it.
Apparently, the rubber in the mount gave way, post which the metal part of the mount shattered and let go of the gearbox, which fell on the axle, and broke that. Result was a clattering car which came to halt, luckily at crawling speeds.
I got it fixed externally, with the mount costing 2900, Axle for 1300, and overall cost came to a round sum of 7500.

Very weird for the mount to fail in such a manner, even though the gearbox itself has been flawless so far.

[praviin05]

Originally Posted by Rahul Bhalgat

The other noise you heard could be from the radiator fan motor, which is a separate motor. This motor keeps turning on and off depending upon the coolant temperature.

I don't have a first hand experience of Celerio AMT. But most auto transmission cars upshift at 2000 rpm in D mode and 2500 rpm on S mode. You can check with the service advisor or with the other members of the forum

Response: Agree with Rahul. Still, issue with power delivery should not happen irrespective of what kind of transmission you are using. If something is mechanically wrong, it must be registering on the logs of the car computer and can be checked at the service center. Please approach the service manager directly and talk to him about the scenario and I can assure you he will take it seriously enough to get it investigated. Maruti has a great work culture ingrained in their DNA, personal experience. They just don't sell so many cars in India for nothing.
Relax. Just remember, everything will be done and you won't have to spend if the car has warranty.
The only crucial factor is "Time". Ensure things(investigation, diagnosis, resolution) are done ASAP.

Cheer up mate.

pravin

[Rahul Bhalgat]

Originally Posted by mayankk

So this happened with my mom's Stingray.
The gearbox mounting gave way, and it fell on the axle, breaking it.

Very weird for the mount to fail in such a manner, even though the gearbox itself has been flawless so far.

Surprising. The engine / gearbox mounts rarely fail outright. How old is the car and how many km has it run?

When the mount rubber starts eroding, the driver notices a jerk / movement on the gearshift lever upon pressing the gas pedal. Did you notice any such symptom?

[giri1.8]

Originally Posted by audioholic

There can be multiple possibilities that I can think of.

• Because of the engine torque delivery, the calibration might be different and it wont slip clutch in 2nd.
• Tiago is a relatively new car compared to the Celerio. These AMTs behave very well when they are new and get cranky only after sometime.
• Number of Celerio owners around is far greater than that of Tiago. Hence these issues are more widely detected and reported.

All in all, the AMT module seems fairly reliable to me, except for this clutch issue.

On tigor/tiago low end torque is extremely good, hence AT box doesn't have to work hard to get the car moving. BUT on highway engine is very slow to pickup any speed.

Tata has rolled out multiple updated to engine and gearbox to sort things out. Latest update was quite good.

The unit does have few flaws, no doubt about that, but they are far and few compared to cars in its segment.

Expect Maruti do update things during facelift. One on the Brezza has received lot of praise in terms of refinement and shift logic.

[mayankk]

Originally Posted by Rahul Bhalgat

Surprising. The engine / gearbox mounts rarely fail outright. How old is the car and how many km has it run?

When the mount rubber starts eroding, the driver notices a jerk / movement on the gearshift lever upon pressing the gas pedal. Did you notice any such symptom?

Cars about 3 years old, and has done maybe 10k. It's my mum's runabout, that's why the low mileage, and also why the disintegrating rubber and the sounds may have been disregarded.

[Rahul Bhalgat]

Originally Posted by mayankk

Cars about 3 years old, and has done maybe 10k. It's my mum's runabout, that's why the low mileage, and also why the disintegrating rubber and the sounds may have been disregarded.

That is unfortunate. The engine mounts must not disintegrate in 3 years. In my 15 years of owing M800 and 8 years of SX4, I have never come across a failure of engine mount.

Hope that the new mount gives you peace of mind hereafter. Have you checked the condition of other mounts of the engine / gearbox?

Did you not insist for the mount replacement under warranty?

[guptad42]

Tata engines in Tiago as well as Nexon have more power and low end torque. Nexon's 1.2 has both turbo charging and dual variable valve timing.

On top of that, a friend's real life experience with a nexon petrol amt shows that tata motors have tuned the AMT for shift quality and engine smoothness, even giving up fuel efficiency in the bargain. As a result, clutch faults and repairs in Tata AMTs are not common.

He discovered this because he was dissatsfied with his petrol amt mileage in city usage. So, he drove in manual mode for a month and found that mileage jumped from 8-9kmpl to 11-12kmpl with the same daily urban commute. The reason is that the car engine and gearbox is actually smooth when you shift up much earlier in manual mode, but in auto mode the car revs up to 2000-2100 rpm before shifting up.

Obviously, Suzuki has gone to the other extreme - shifting up too early or letting the clutch slip and judder, when the engine-gear combination does not have enough power. Combined with engines with poor low end torque and thin clutches, it is creating problems. Maybe they can add sensors to detect when car is on incline or under higher load and shift up late. Or learn from the juddering and shift up later/ shift down earlier.

[wishnipon]

Originally Posted by wishnipon

AMT issues:

1. At speed breakers, I slow down, the AMT shifts to first gear, I cross the speed breaker, then the car unpredictably leaps forward so that I have to nervously brake again to bring back the car in control.
2. After stopping, as I start again from stand-still the car moves ahead with a judder. This doesn't happen all the time though.
3. I feel one of the major issues that I face with the AMT is sudden braking . Compared to a manual, it tends to slow and then stop with a jerk. This gives nervous moments in stop and go traffic.

... So this was the problem I was facing with AMT of since 2017, in 2014-bought Alto K10 AMT.

Originally Posted by wishnipon

I have had to modify my driving style to cope with the AMT. I drive VERY sedately now, accelerating and braking gradually, always keeping a handsome gap from the car ahead of me. This way, I have been able to deal with the AMT issues. However, now that I maintain a handsome gap from the car ahead, autorickshaws, two wheelers and sometimes even hatchbacks try to overtake me - as if they are in a big hurry - and get in the gap!

... And this was how I was coping with the situation.

From this year though, the AMT became highly unreliable. There was total lack of power often, in lower gears, when the AMT tried to shift. There was a lot of judder in heavy stop-and-go traffic. The car almost came to a halt several times in busy traffic leaving me in a heart-in-the-mouth situation. I was driving extremely cautiously during all this time and didn't allow anyone else to drive my car as I was sure they would get hit from behind. Strangely, the problem wasn't constant. The AMT would behave alright on empty roads when there wasn't a lot of shifting involved. However, after driving through congested traffic for sometime, it would become scarily unreliable. Also, in mornings, when I would start the car, the creeping function would sometimes fail, and the car would not move forward on releasing the brake, moving only if I gave some accelerator input.

I took the car to MASS and, as usual, the SA refused to accept that there was any issue, stating that the clutch can't wear off in just 20,000 km. The SA conducted a test drive and I accompanied. Unfortunately, the problem could not be reproduced as roads were congestion-free in post-noon. I was told that a normal annual servicing will be done, and if any error is revealed on the OBD, they will address that.

Accordingly, oil and oil filter was changed. Something called blower motor resistor was changed. Another item mentioned on the bill was front brake caliper. Surprisingly, the AMT problem has vanished post-service. It has been more than a week, and the AMT behaves as it did when the car was just bought!

Did MASS tweak the AMT without telling me? Or was it a clogged oil filter?

Originally Posted by wishnipon

On the way back home from MASS, which is a 2.5 km distance, I saw the transaxle warning indicator in the MID for the first time in my life.

I should have updated this thread earlier. A revisit to MASS sorted this transaxle warning indicator issue. It turned out that MASS had screwed something up while doing my steering work (Maruti Alto K10 : Official Review). The issue vaguely described as a "loose solenoid" was fixed and the problem was solved.

[sam_sant2005]

Hi All,

I gave my wife's Alto K10 AMT for 60000kms service yest at Pratham Bellandur, Bangalore. (We had picked up this car 1.5 yrs back at 51k kms - till yest all decent, she used to drive it daily to work without any prior driving experience and hence AMT worked really well for her).

Personally I have owned a Duster 110ps AMT recently and one of the reasons for selling it was the bad AMT (my take is turbo lag and AMT is a dangerous combination). Duster AMT was overall good but gave unpleasant surprises at slight inclines like road bumps in 2nd gear when it tries to downshift to 1st in the middle of the climb and then suddenly it realises there is no power due to turbo lag and vehicle crawls back. Many times I have got the shock of my life and just managed not to hit the car behind by pulling the handbrake . Duster does have hill hold, but that works only when completely stopped and we take legs off the brake, not during roll on. So I feel non turbo and smaller cars work better with AMT.

Ok now back to the Alto K10 AMT - As we rolled out of the service centre yesterday, I immeditately sensed something wrong with the vehicle :-

1) Gearshift is extremely jerky now. I should mention it as "all over the place"
2) As we slow down say below 20kmph, while braking strangely the rpm was going up on its own past 2500
3) Since the rpm went high, while releasing the brake and pressing the accelerator, the car was jumping
4) Even while braking I felt vehicle was still accelerating and pulling strongly. I cannot even imagine my wife driving this car now, I myself was finding it difficult to tame the Alto now

I have reported this to the service advisor. He said it has run 60k kms on stock clutch and that could be the reason. But I told him that the issue popped up only after service. I am planning to escalate this. Car engine feels smooth and feels more powerful, I think they cleaned the fuel injectors. Not sure if a too good service had exposed a weak link like a worn out clutch.

Need your suggestion and advice on what could have gone wrong and what might be the fix.



"My definition of AMT - You have asked your friend sitting next to you to change the gears while you drive, but he is not focussing enough sometimes "

OFF TOPIC - And not to mention one of India's most cheapest entry vehicles, the routine service bill with no parts changed COSTED 10500rs. I really don't know what Maruti is upto. I had kept a close watch on all items they change and prevented a lot, but still they hit 5 figure with a lot of labour cost.

[iamtrk]

So, today morning I got not so pleasant surprise, my Ignis AMT Zeta model is not starting !.
Apparently the gear indicator is stuck in some undefined state & the ignition needs the gear to be in N to fireup. It is a 13 months old car with 12K on odo. My maintenance has been top notch.
I usually park with gear slotted to reverse as my parking has slight incline(as recommended in owners manual).

The mechanical movement of the gear is fine, my parking has a slight incline & the car started rolling when I had slotted the gear stick to N.

Is there anything that I can do to reset the gear indicator or should I call ASS ?