[cityslicker86]

So I've done a little above 1000Km in my Celerio. However, around 650-700 Km itself, the jerky gearshifts and 2nd to 1st 'shove' had started happening. They haven't gone away, although, the 'shove' is less frequent now. What is more frequent, is the infamous 1st to 2nd shift 'judder'. Its pretty strong and felt by my co-passengers as well. There's judder in higher gears as well, but not as pronounced. I've tried to reduce this 'shove' & 'judder' business by driving more sedately (esp. avoiding rapid changes in driving speed) and leaving the brake pedal gently. That has helped to some extent, but not significantly.

I'm due for a second service in 1st week of October. Im wondering if I should wait till then, or, go to the service centre now and take up this shove/judder problem. Quite honestly, I'm pretty disappointed with the entire thing, especially with this happening so early in the car's life. 1000Kms? Really? Its practically new!!

However, apart from this, I'm very happy with the car. Power is adequate for city driving, suspension absorbs bumps and potholes well. The AC is good enough (I rarely set it a 'coolest' mark. Usually near the beginning of the Blue arc, and blower at 2) and the music system is fantastic. It also has all the basic bells and whistles, 2 airbags and ABS. Anything else is a frill.

My friend purchased an Ignis MT (Delta variant) at ~6L OTR, which is only 10K more than what I paid. Initially, I was cursing myself for not getting the Ignis. Its snazzier, larger, has a 4 cyl engine, and its wayyy more appealing. But then I took a ride in her car and now I'm almost glad I didnt buy one. The suspension is hard and thus the ride is not comfortable. And the music system is terrible. As far as Ignis extra BHPs are concerend, now that I drive more frequently in city, honestly, I dont feel the lack of power. Theres just too much traffic and too many idiots on the road to drive briskly.

If only the Celerio had a sorted AMT, it would have been the perfect city car.

BTW, did I mention that some moron (or a kid of) deliberately put a long scratch on my car's bonnet using a key or something? Its not deep, and hopefully can be fixed without too much fuss and expense.

Will keep you all posted.

[jassi_jeeper]

Originally Posted by audioholic

Maybe since driving an automatic was new to you, you ended up burning the clutch by using this method. When the left leg is used for braking and right for accelerator, the clutch heats up pretty quickly, as quick as coming out of a basement in reverse. When I had left the car for alignment, one of their guys there had never driven an automatic before, and to remove the car from the alignment bay, which is actually in the basement of a building, used the brake to hold the car while he accelerated with his right foot. It overheated the clutch and when the car was handed over to me it had the TCM light blinking and a beeping alert.

The next time I went to get the wheels aligned, I took out the car myself and did not use the brake. At one point where I had to hold, I used the handbrake and this didnt cause any overheating.

I have also crawled up Nandi Hills in dense traffic and never faced the issue of overheating or car rolling back. M mode is a must in such situations and leaving the car in first gear will give good response when climbing up a hairpin bend. I didnt use the handbrake either when stopped. It is only required if your leg isnt quick enough to transition from the brake to the accelerator. Using the main brakes instead of the parking brake to do wont work well since the main brakes are powerful compared to the parking brakes, and moreover acts on the front wheels too, which are driven by the engine. This causes quick overheating of the clutch. Whereas the parking brake acts on the rear wheels and leaves the front wheel free. When the engine delivers power to the front wheels, the wheels can move to some extent as long as the suspension provides some room and by then the handbrake is released. Hence, there is a difference in these two methods of launching a car up a slope.

I asked the parking attendant at my workplace to take out my k10 amt from the basement. He used the break with his left foot and the accelerator with his right foot simultaneously. The transaxel got heated, the warning light came on and the beep alert came on too. When it cooled all was back to normal. I hope it won't be a long term issue?

[audioholic]

Originally Posted by jassi_jeeper

I asked the parking attendant at my workplace to take out my k10 amt from the basement. He used the break with his left foot and the accelerator with his right foot simultaneously. The transaxel got heated, the warning light came on and the beep alert came on too. When it cooled all was back to normal. I hope it won't be a long term issue?

It wont be a huge issue if it is a one time occurrence. But it again depends upon the amount of abuse the clutch was put through. Now the Transaxle light came up due to over heating of the clutch but we don't know what was the actual wear and tear done to the clutch disc. Maybe in the long run the clutch might wear out a little earlier but practically speaking, its something you cannot judge and draw conclusions from. Just make sure that such incidents don't repeat in the future. Avoid valet parking especially since I have seen that in many places people claim to know how to drive an automatic and then goof up. Such was the case with my car too.

[bhp_maniac]

Originally Posted by cityslicker86

I'm due for a second service in 1st week of October. Im wondering if I should wait till then, or, go to the service centre now and take up this shove/judder problem. Quite honestly, I'm pretty disappointed with the entire thing, especially with this happening so early in the car's life. 1000Kms? Really? Its practically new!!

I would suggest, pay a visit to the ASS asap. Luckily, am on the 6k mark and no issues mentioned here has came up till date. Also, after the second service I am pretty sure the gear shifts occur evidently faster. Not sure if they have done some software update. Only 1-2 is prominent now and all other up changes are mostly unnoticeable.

[Sebring]

We have finalized the Dzire Petrol AMT. Now, we are going to wait a while for this tech to settle before we decide.

I really need mileage since running is high, but in an Auto. Any suggestions, guys?

[vsrivatsa]

Originally Posted by Sebring

We have finalized the Dzire Petrol AMT. Now, we are going to wait a while for this tech to settle before we decide.

I really need mileage since running is high, but in an Auto. Any suggestions, guys?

I think the best is to give a call out to Dzire users who has faced issues as all we are hearing is a maximum of Celerio users reporting the issue.


Now for the rest of the Experts who have contributed to this thread. I see that many people are reading this thread and completely shying away from AMT.

Is it fair to summarize that the failures seem to be more with the AMT Module and 3 cylinder engine combination?

That is the opinion I framed from the people reporting the problem on this thread as we have not heard Tata Zest or Dzire AMT users reporting much here. Ignis AMT is still new and maybe we need to give it a year but have not heard issues on the Ignis also so far being reported in last 7-8 months since launch.

So my question is - would it be fair to deduce based on evidence of issues reported so far that the combination of the exact same AMT Module with a 4 cylinder engine seems to reduce the failure rate of the AMT?.

In other words, is a buyer at lesser risk buying: Ignis AMT/Dzire AMT/Zest ZMT as compared to Alto/Wagon R/Celerio/Tiago AMTs ?

Disclaimer: I am using the word "reduce" and not saying "eliminates" the issue as we are not 100% to say it completely removes the issue. The intent is to only enable potential buyers to make the appropriate decision when they are planning to buy an AMT and weigh the risk accordingly as per the model.

[Sebring]

Suzuki has an amazing CVT system on the Swift which I've driven in Dubai. Only in India can they test an unproven AMT technology as law suits are very rare here. Imagine if these failures were to happen in the west! The Baleno CVT was 'okayish', since the Micra had already 'wowed' us!

Is Suzuki using this tech in any other market? The Company sells these cars in thousands over here and if these problems were to skyrocket, Maruti could have their hands full. The Brezza Petrol is round the corner and an automatic version is a surety, wonder if it will feature an AMT or a CVT?

Preferring the 'wait and watch' approach even as I'm taking a test drive of the new Verna Automatic, with a torque converter. If push comes to shove, maybe I'll consider a manual! Reliability, with mileage is paramount!

[sairamboko]

I have an Alto K10 AMT. Contrary to what has been mentioned I haven't faced any issues so far with AMT. I guess there are still some issues with Celerio. Both Celerio and Alto share the same engine and AMT box. Not sure what's causing the issue. One thing to remember, all AMT will have the initial lag from 1st gear to 2nd gear , especially in Maruti. Not sure why this is caused. Overall I have covered 8500 KM's in my alto in 6 months of ownership and it had been trouble free.

[cityslicker86]

My Celerio came back from 2nd service on 28th Sep. I had highlighted the 'shove & judder' issue to the service advisor. I also raised a concern about dropping FE of my car (from 13.5 to 12.1). The SA initially tried to pass off the issue a 'typical to AMT, nothing wrong as such', but after a rejected his opinion and reminded him that I can take it up with Maruti if its not solved, he said that he and his supervisor would take a look. Afterwards, he called back and said that the they test drove the vehicle and didn't notice any such issue, however if I faced it again I could bring the vehicle back. Also, about the FE, he again passed it off stating the AMTs are like this and the most he can do is clean the air filter and check tire pressure. . All this was strange, but I needed the car urgently and so didn't push it and took delivery.

Now for the past 1 week I haven't faced the '2nd-1st' 'shove', although the judder is there. I am also managing it by modulating the speed and stepping off the throttle for gear changes. I suspect they have re-mapped the ECU and kept mum about it.

On a side note - I'm not too happy with Popular Maruti's overall service quality. Past three times these chaps have delivered the car to me without washing it, just dry wipe. The car also had minor scratches on one occasion and I had to sit with them and get them to wax-&-polish it out. A trivial issue of brake pedal lubrication was also not solved. I am still stuck with a squeaky pedal. Plus, my car cabin smelled of some chemical (typical garage smell) when I took delivery. I am gonna raise a stink about this.

[bhp_maniac]

Originally Posted by sairamboko

I have an Alto K10 AMT. Contrary to what has been mentioned I haven't faced any issues so far with AMT. I guess there are still some issues with Celerio. Both Celerio and Alto share the same engine and AMT box. Not sure what's causing the issue. One thing to remember, all AMT will have the initial lag from 1st gear to 2nd gear , especially in Maruti. Not sure why this is caused. Overall I have covered 8500 KM's in my alto in 6 months of ownership and it had been trouble free.

My experience with a Celerio AMT (At 5600 km) now has been touchwood till date. My wife is the primary user though. I really have enjoyed the manual mode on this thing during the occasional open road runs and the automated shift in B2B traffic. Really convenient and cost effective.

[hillsnrains]

Originally Posted by Sebring

We have finalized the Dzire Petrol AMT. Now, we are going to wait a while for this tech to settle before we decide.

I really need mileage since running is high, but in an Auto. Any suggestions, guys?

We have a Celerio at home which has clocked 20K in last 3+ years. Which is driven by wife in B2B Bangalore Traffic. Already once clutch plate is replaced under warranty. Juddering is always there, it was negligible when clutch is new (say for 2-3K kms). We are not at all happy with performance and planning to replace it with a CVT car.
My advise is not to buy AMT with any brand/car (technically all are same). One may consider buying if this is the first automatic (if I can call ).

[Sebring]

Thanks, but picked up a NEXON as the diesel manual (petrol is competent as well) blew us away. Will not settle for AMT jugaad.

Originally Posted by hillsnrains

We have a Celerio at home which has clocked 20K in last 3+ years. Which is driven by wife in B2B Bangalore Traffic. Already once clutch plate is replaced under warranty. Juddering is always there, it was negligible when clutch is new (say for 2-3K kms). We are not at all happy with performance and planning to replace it with a CVT car.
My advise is not to buy AMT with any brand/car (technically all are same). One may consider buying if this is the first automatic (if I can call ).

[audioholic]

Surprisingly, I have done 6k+ kms after the most recent clutch replacement and I should say that there is no vibration and judder yet, though the car has been put to use in the same way and driven much more in the city than highway compared to before. Also, due to rainy season, the usage in stop go traffic had increased lately.

The history of clutch replacements on my car goes like this:

• First occurrence of judder was at 3k kms or so.
• First replacement of clutch was at 5.5k kms a little after the second service
• Second replacement of clutch was at 9k odd kms during third service since the judder had slightly set in so the car had done 4.5k kms on the replaced clutch
• From then, the odo is reaching 17k kms shortly and the clutch has been extremely smooth.

More than being happy that the problem has not yet reoccurred(I cant say it wont reoccur) I am curious to know what was the difference they made compared to before. The obvious fact is that during the first time, only clutch disc was changed while the clutch cover was left unchanged. During the second change, they replaced both components. I think this could be the difference since I guess the issue would have been a warped clutch cover which would judder when hot due to uneven expansion.

So the replacement of the disc only during the first time did not help for long since the issue was with the cover which is made of metal. Similar scenario occurs when we have brake judder. Replacing brake pad wont help compared to replacing the disc.

Lets see how long the clutch can hold up now. If anyone is planning to report this issue, ensure that they change both the disc and cover.

[jomson13]

Hello Everyone,

I have been following this 'clutch judder' issue from quite some time now and as a result, I have been very conscious of any vibrations coming from my car (it has done around 8k kms in 8 months, 2 services done)

There is a slight judder when the car accelerates after a slowdown (like after you release brakes and accelerate after a speed bump), but I am ok with this.
I realize that the actuator will allow a certain amount of slip to ensure that the car doesn't stall. I would do the same thing while driving any MT car. So lets not make a big deal out of it.

What I do in these situations is to put the car into manual and shift down to the 1st gear - this really helps when the car is decently loaded and really slow. This ensures it doesn't judder while accelerating.

I absolutely hate the celerio's early shifting habits; would have really liked a sport mode of some sort (like the one in the Tiago / Zest AMT).
Do you feel that the celerio's clutch will be subjected to a large amount of wear due to the fact that it shifts gears so quickly?

[Sparky]

My Celerio has done about 4k after the clutch set replacement, and the issue of juddering has not cropped up yet. The usage has been same, mostly in the city stop and go traffic. The history of the problems faced by me is as below:

• 9k (apporx.) - Juddering issue faced.
• 10k (Dec 2016) - Notified the service center, they check the spark plugs, engine mountings, ECU reset, etc. But that did not help much.
• 13k (Mar 2017) - Clutch Set replaced, all thanks to TeamBhp for the advice. The memo said 'Clutch cover assembly and/or Clutch disc assembly'.
• 17k (Present) - No juddering issues so far. Only 1 in 100 times, when taking sharp U turns in the morning, faced some jerking. 2nd Paid Service done on Sep 2017.

I am keeping close watch if the juddering crops back. My belief is that if it does not show up till 25k (about time for my 3rd year service), it will not come back again. Fingers crossed.

I am curious to know what was the difference they made compared to before.

@audioholic, first thanks for your dedicated support to this thread and all your advice. I agree with you on the difference it makes to replace clutch cover also. In addition to that, the quality of friction material might also be playing role, may be Maruti made some changes on that front.

What I do in these situations is to put the car into manual and shift down to the 1st gear - this really helps when the car is decently loaded and really slow. This ensures it doesn't judder while accelerating.

That is nice workaround jomson13. But it dissolves the whole purpose of having an AMT, I think. During the first start in the morning, even I let the car accelerate on its own, have to even brake if its accelerating more during sharp U turn.

Does any one know if Maruti has officially recognized this problem? If yes, what is the status of it?