[Jeroen]

Originally Posted by srivatsahg

The technician at Vecto Motors Bangalore advised for the replacement of the entire CSC unit without even checking it or least driving the car.

That must be some technician! Possessed by superpowers, or maybe he just relies on "the force", whatever I would run a mile from him
Jeroen

[anilp]

Originally Posted by srivatsahg

I'm still apprehensive because sometimes the gear shift process is smooth when I start in the morning and it gets progressively harder by the day. Any suggestions ? Could this be occurring due to the worn out clutch unit or could this be something with the gear assembly ? By the way the odo now reads ~60K

Commenting on this, since the same engine is shared on the Manza QJT. I was advised clutch replacement by Tata ASC at 45k (which I did) for the same issue, viz, hard clutch. Their point was that this is a hydraulic clutch and replacement is the only option. I didn't know enough about this, so I got it replaced, especially since the car is driven mostly by the driver in bumper to bumper traffic.

After 8000 kms or so, the clutch again became hard. Recently, I had the 55k service, and the service advisor suggested a "clutch replacement". Again? You can imagine how I would have reacted.

My advice is to get a second opinion on the clutch replacement.

[ILTDrive]

My Indica DLG which I sold off last year was on its stock clutch plate when it was sold off at 66k kms. Since the car is with a close acquaintance, I know for sure that there haven't been any clutch work done on it and I believe the current Odo is around 75k. TATA quality amuses me, but only in some parts of the car.

[srivatsahg]

Originally Posted by anilp

Commenting on this, since the same engine is shared on the Manza QJT. I was advised clutch replacement by Tata ASC at 45k (which I did) for the same issue, viz, hard clutch. Their point was that this is a hydraulic clutch and replacement is the only option. I didn't know enough about this, so I got it replaced, especially since the car is driven mostly by the driver in bumper to bumper traffic.

After 8000 kms or so, the clutch again became hard. Recently, I had the 55k service, and the service advisor suggested a "clutch replacement". Again? You can imagine how I would have reacted.

My advice is to get a second opinion on the clutch replacement.

This is what I don't get. Is replacement of a component / part is the only viable option what the service technicians are taught ?

Yes, I shall go with a second opinion first. Thanks

[honeybee]

Originally Posted by anilp

Commenting on this, since the same engine is shared on the Manza QJT. I was advised clutch replacement by Tata ASC at 45k (which I did) for the same issue, viz, hard clutch. Their point was that this is a hydraulic clutch and replacement is the only option. I didn't know enough about this, so I got it replaced, especially since the car is driven mostly by the driver in bumper to bumper traffic.

My Nano and another Nano were advised a clutch replacement at 40k kms and 20k kms respectively. My clutch felt hard and the other Nano's clutch needed adjustment to the free play or the pedal travel before the bite.

Don't fall for it.

[Jeroen]

I read a lot about the "clutches going hard" and this should be an indication that the clutch needs replacing? Could somebody enlighten me what a clutch going hard really means or feels like? Because i cant, for the life of me, begin to understand how the feel of the clutch be it hydraulic or by cable/links be affected by the clutch wear? The amount of travel, maybe on cable/link operated clutch. But why would clutch wear be felt in the clutch pedal is beyond me?

Thanks,
Jeroen

[anilp]

Jeroen, we have an Indica and a Manza in the house. Both diesel. The Manza despite clutch replacement gives us knee pain (at times) when it's driven for sustained intervals in peak traffic. That's how hard it is. The Indica v2 clutch does not despite being driven in same conditions. I hope this gives a good idea of what I mean. I don't know a better way to explain.

[Jeroen]

Originally Posted by anilp

Jeroen, we have an Indica and a Manza in the house. Both diesel. The Manza despite clutch replacement gives us knee pain (at times) when it's driven for sustained intervals in peak traffic. That's how hard it is. The Indica v2 clutch does not despite being driven in same conditions. I hope this gives a good idea of what I mean. I don't know a better way to explain.

Thanks. I can understand that a particular clutch/car can be tough to operate. But on this forum I have seen many messages where apparently the clutch goes hard and subsequently members advise to replace the clutch. Im trying to figure out the relation between a clutch going hard and why that should be an indication of having to replace a clutch. i simply don't understand how the wear of a clutch has any bearing on how the clutch feels, with the possible exception of the amount of travel of the clutch pedal. And on most hydraulic operated clutches you wouldn't even notice that either.

Jeroen

[SS-Traveller]

Originally Posted by Jeroen

Im trying to figure out the relation between a clutch going hard and why that should be an indication of having to replace a clutch.

The hardness is often related to the fingers of the pressure plate losing their *springiness* in certain brands / models, and replacing the pressure plate makes the pedal softer again; however, I have no idea why this happens so frequently as is reported, except to put it down to poor material quality or manufacturing processes.

[honeybee]

In my case the Nano's hard clutch was fixed by replacing the clutch cable in the first year.

[Jeroen]

Originally Posted by SS-Traveller

The hardness is often related to the fingers of the pressure plate losing their *springiness* in certain brands / models, and replacing the pressure plate makes the pedal softer again; however, I have no idea why this happens so frequently as is reported, except to put it down to poor material quality or manufacturing processes.

Thanks, I have replaced many clutches in my time, but I dont think I ever came across cases of this being the problem. As you say, must be something specific perhaps for Indian cars, but then again, it seems to happen a lot.

Originally Posted by honeybee

In my case the Nano's hard clutch was fixed by replacing the clutch cable in the first year.

Thanks, that actually would always be my first call to look for when the clutch feel different. Check out all the mechanical bits and pieces first before opening up a gear box.

Jeroen

[anilp]

Originally Posted by Jeroen

Thanks, I have replaced many clutches in my time, but I dont think I ever came across cases of this being the problem. As you say, must be something specific perhaps for Indian cars, but then again, it seems to happe

I forgot to mention that the Manza is a hydraulic clutch and the Indica v2 is a cable operated one. I'm seeing this tightness of clutch mostly in the hydraulic ones. Any thoughts on why this might be?

[Jeroen]

Originally Posted by anilp

I forgot to mention that the Manza is a hydraulic clutch and the Indica v2 is a cable operated one. I'm seeing this tightness of clutch mostly in the hydraulic ones. Any thoughts on why this might be?

I think I wrote this on a different thread as well. Before opening up the gearbox I would want to make absolutely sure everything else is working properly.

When was the last time you replaced the hydraulic fluid? It is advisable to do so every 2 years at least.

Check the movement of the actual clutch pedal. Is there anything perhaps wrapped around it that causes undue friction. Try and disconnect the various mechanical links and ensure that each parts moves freely. Underneath the dasboard and whereever the linkage might go to the mastercilinder. Make sure the linkages/levers line up properly with mastercilinder.

Not sure where it sits on your car, but locate the slave cilinder. Typically you will find it somewhere on the side of the gearbox. Check for any sign of visual damage, stuff hanging from the lever etc.

If possible remove the slave cilinder, but leave it connected to the hydraulic line. No carefully push on the clutch pedal. You should feel very little resistance. Be careful not to push to hard/fast and too far. On some designs the pistion might pop out of the slavecilinder if there is nothing holding it back.

Only after you have made sure all of the above is working properly with no undue play, friction or misallignement would I start considering opening up the gearbox

Jeroen

[dark.knight]

Originally Posted by srivatsahg

Is replacement of a component / part is the only viable option what the service technicians are taught ?

Short Answer - Yes. The key word here is *taught*. Hope that's enough hint ;-)

Originally Posted by Jeroen

that actually would always be my first call to look for when the clutch feel different. Check out all the mechanical bits and pieces first before opening up a gear box.

The Indian vehicle scene sprung up only in the 80's, as compared to American/European scene which are atleast 4 decades older. Initially all that India had were Fiat taxis and another car called Ambassador which was licensed by the Morris company. For most new buyers a car is a blessing, from the usual crowded buses/auto they have to otherwise take. Knowing this fully well, the authorised service centers have constructed a sort of fool-proof mechanism where they tell the owners (me included) that xyz kms completed.. replace abc. Now if we choose to not decide immediately they resort to the next hook "Sir this is company recommended schedule, if something goes wrong then don't blame us". The following are the incidents I remember of how they make blunders :

- Additives claimed to have been put and billed for. When I questioned them that I clearly said no additives they agreed it wasn't done & reversed it.

- Clutch "hardness" and replacement recommended at 38k km itself. Again I said I'll reconsider. Next service another branch said clutch is "perfect" and its been 1.5 years since. Got the bleeding done recently and its a lot softer and has more crisp movement. Good so far.

- Wheel bearing issue raised. Their reason was that a "shrill noise" can be heard in cabin during turns. I heard no such noise & said no. Turned out later to be a loose p.s belt.

- Suggesting decarbing every 6 months, without even a flinch. I know better than that.

In this space-constricted country where I have only enough space to park my car, and most cases being the same, 99% of us do not have the facilities or resources to inspect our own car at ease. I did learn very early though that service centers aren't completely honest at all, they know that people may not know as much as them and take full advantage & ever since I've dealt with them firmly and questioned their every decision based on whatever I know. Haven't had much problems as a result.

As far as this thread topic goes, there is NO hard & fast rules for clutch replacement.. treat it well and it might just last very long. Only on symptoms and personal driving instinct (and 2 opinions), should one even consider replacement/overhaul.

[srivatsahg]

After enough postponing I finally decided to give-in and go for the clutch / gear lever overhaul and timing chain/belt replacement . The very scary thought of engine stalling in the middle of nowhere I considered this as a prudent thing to do especially since I frequent a lot on highways.

I had already clocked 65K+ so my MJD also was due for 60K scheduled service.

Total damage(including service cost): 36,000 INR

• Paid service : 8000 + 2500 (labour cost)
• Clutch kit : 8600 + 3200 (labour cost.. really ??)
• Timing chain: 10000 + 3000 (kill me now)

Misc. Glow plugs, mud liners, passenger sun visors. etc added to the final cost.

The major blow was from the labour cost. Almost 9000 INR for labour

Can anyone please confirm this from their experience.

Must admit it has become quite an expensive affair maintaining my stallion