[Turbohead]

Originally Posted by 2TR-FE

Hello,

I have bought a 15k driven 2019 Vento TDI DSG recently. The downshifting jerk from D2 to D1 at speeds south of 15 KMPH and upshifting jerk from D1 to D2 at higher RPMs was observed from Day 1 of purchase. The jerk while upshifting occurs only when we stop acceleration input after reaching high RPM (say 3k) in D1.

During my annual service, my SA somehow convinced me that this behaviour is perfectly fine.

Please let me know whether this is normal or not. If not, what's the solution?

Please raise a complaint with VW helpline and ensure that you don't close the case ( basically don't sign any random paper they give you) until the issue is resolved properly. This is your only way out. I'm sure you have warranty and it's best to resolve it ASAP.

[ChoosetoCruze]

Originally Posted by 2TR-FE

Please let me know whether this is normal or not. If not, what's the solution?

First of all, what is a 2TR-FE owner doing buying a VAG vehicle? Blasphemy!

Any chimp with half a brain, who has driven mainstream automatics, will know that that behaviour is not normal. That sleazy SA is just trying to pretend the problem doesn’t exist, so that the dealer doesn’t have to bear the expense & labour of a free warranty repair.

You chose to buy a DSG (one of the worst automatic transmissions on this planet from a reliability standpoint) despite knowing the risks. Now, the risk has turned into reality.

Was this car thoroughly checked out by a specialist VAG mechanic/ASC before purchase?

Your only hope is standing your ground & forcing the dealer to acknowledge the problem. Make a video of the car doing the odd behaviour & use it as evidence when you go to the dealer.

This is why buying even a lifetime of extended warranty is futile if you buy the wrong car. What use is the extended warranty if you can’t sleep at night knowing that the expensive DSG in your car has started showing symptoms of going out, in a car you just purchased?!

Since you’re stuck with the car, force the dealer to fix it at no cost to you. Do not accept anything less until the DSG shifts smoothly without any strange behaviour.

Good luck & I suggest reading this thread from the beginning for the solution.

[SLK]

Originally Posted by 2TR-FE

I have bought a 15k driven 2019 Vento TDI DSG recently. The downshifting jerk from D2 to D1 at speeds south of 15 KMPH

Do you manually downshift? because the DQ200 normally doesn't downshift to D1 at 15kmph. If you do it manually or it downshifts on a rough patch of road, a sudden reduction in speed is normal (which in a TDI may feel jerkier than in a TSI, my guess.) Everything else is not.

Originally Posted by 2TR-FE

and upshifting jerk from D1 to D2 at higher RPMs was observed from Day 1 of purchase.

The jerk while upshifting occurs only when we stop acceleration input after reaching high RPM (say 3k) in D1.

3K in D1 is hard driving for DSG in D mode which shifts to D2 almost instantly when the car gets moving. Nevertheless, when releasing the hard pressed accelerator happens immediately (milliseconds) before DSG is about to upshift in your spirited driving mode, you will get a jerk and a sound too.

I have experienced this more between 2>3, but I guess that is my sweet spot to get aggressive rather than 1>2.

If this is the same issue, then the only way to avoid is to fix the erratic driving style or drive in manual when you want to get aggressive and unpredictable. I drive my Polo only in manual mode, pushing D for erratic driving makes no sense.

The best solution could be, to get the service center to reset the DSG and then you drive the D mode normally for it to settle that as normal. When you want to drive hard, get to M or S and you can expect some jerks when driving aggressively.

Originally Posted by ChoosetoCruze

First of all, what is a 2TR-FE owner doing buying a VAG vehicle? Blasphemy!

This is almost racist!

Originally Posted by ChoosetoCruze

You chose to buy a DSG (one of the worst automatic transmissions on this planet from a reliability standpoint) despite knowing the risks. Now, the risk has turned into reality.

Jerks and reliability have little or no correlation! The statement is unfounded.

[sarfraz1997]

Originally Posted by 2TR-FE

The downshifting jerk from D2 to D1 at speeds south of 15 KMPH and upshifting jerk from D1 to D2 at higher RPMs was observed from Day 1 of purchase. The jerk while upshifting occurs only when we stop acceleration input after reaching high RPM (say 3k) in D1.

Please let me know whether this is normal or not. If not, what's the solution?

The behaviour of the gearbox is slightly different on the TDI, maybe any TDI DSG owners can give better inputs.

D2-D1 downshifting jerk happens occasionally on rough roads on very low speeds for me.I have never experienced jerks while accelerating.

[MartinVirage]

I have a theory - might be just overthinking.
Jerks mainly happen -
1) when you slow down while approaching bad roads or speed breakers
2) when you pick up speed after the slowing down for a particular section

Considering, the gearbox learns the way you drive - feedback loop. It just gets confused whether to shift or down. I believe its a software issue, always been a software issue. Probably, ignorance by the DSG tuning team. And now there is mechatronics/multiclutch saving map - which downshifts to D1 when I slow down. But, I guess overtime we might have the perfect map.

PS: Once a DSG replacement, Once a mechatronics replacement later - hoping for the best. Fingers crossed - minimal D2-D1 jerks at this moment, hope this continues. Hate the gearbox downshifting to D1 but livable.

[pgsagar]

DSGs/DCTs jerk while shifting up or down. Period. They are not as bad as AMTs but they do. Torque Converters on the other hand are smooth with barely and noticeable jerks. And, CVTs are the best. Absolutely no jerks.

I am not getting into any reliability issues as it is there for all to see. I often see people ridiculing AMTs and calling DSGs proper automatic. Well, Torque Converter and CVTs are also proper automatics. Personally, I never liked DSGs/DCTs. TCs perform almost same, with much better reliability. Peace of mind is more important to me.

[Guite]

Four and half years on, 85,000 km, am happy to share that my Vento TSI engine and DSG gear shift is as smooth as day one of ownership. I have not experienced any jerk in upshift or downshift.

[Vinay23]

Hey guys,

I own a MY18 Polo GT TSi that’s clocked 30k kms- bought pre-owned 7 months back.
Lately, I’ve been noticing some real harsh jerks while downshifting.

The issue first cropped up after I added the fuel additive provided by the ASC as a part of annual maintenance. After refueling, I was able to immediately notice that the downshifts were jerky and the DSG would hold on to gears longer than usual, before shifting up.

I’ve driven the car for about 300 kms since. It no longer holds on to the gear, but the downshifts from D4-D3-D2 are still incredibly harsh, especially in sport mode. Weirdly, they’re also harsh while braking in D2. Upshifts are also comparatively slower now.

I took the car to VW ASC and they said that they were unable to notice any abnormal behavior of the DSG and were quick to dismiss it.

I also took the car to a FNG and they too didn’t notice the jerky downshifts. But they did notice that the upshifts were relatively slower compared to other GT’s.

What do you guys think? I have no idea how I should proceed further with this.

[SLK]

Originally Posted by Vinay23

The issue first cropped up after I added the fuel additive provided by the ASC as a part of annual maintenance. After refueling, I was able to immediately notice that the downshifts were jerky and the DSG would hold on to gears longer than usual, before shifting up.

Two possible reasons I can think of:

1) they reset the DSG, when this happens it acts wierd for a few days.
2) they drove like maniacs up shifting at 6k and so on. While a lot of people promote that here! The DSG would have again gone out of tune.

I would suggest you continue to drive normally, without experimenting and you/DSG will finally come in tune with each other.

It shouldn't be linked to fuel additive, but say the car isn't revving freely now, hence downshift rpm matching has become a problem, that will also fix after driving a thousand kms.

[GoBlue]

Originally Posted by Vinay23

Hey guys,

I own a MY18 Polo GT TSi that’s clocked 30k kms- bought pre-owned 7 months back.
Lately, I’ve been noticing some real harsh jerks while downshifting.

The issue first cropped up after I added the fuel additive provided by the ASC as a part of annual maintenance. After refueling, I was able to immediately notice that the downshifts were jerky and the DSG would hold on to gears longer than usual, before shifting up.

I’ve driven the car for about 300 kms since. It no longer holds on to the gear, but the downshifts from D4-D3-D2 are still incredibly harsh, especially in sport mode. Weirdly, they’re also harsh while braking in D2. Upshifts are also comparatively slower now.

I took the car to VW ASC and they said that they were unable to notice any abnormal behavior of the DSG and were quick to dismiss it.

I also took the car to a FNG and they too didn’t notice the jerky downshifts. But they did notice that the upshifts were relatively slower compared to other GT’s.

What do you guys think? I have no idea how I should proceed further with this.

Have you gotten the warranty transferred to your name? Make sure that’s done, if not.

Don’t worry about it. If and when the DSG conks off, just ask for a replacement of the Mechatronics. The clutch pack doesn’t wear out with such less mileage, if the shifts are jerky it’s got to be the Mechatronics unit.

Drive the car normally, don’t fixate on the jerks.

Make sure you get them to register your complaint of jerks on a job card. That will help when your DSG conks off (if at all).

And yes, don’t do any functional mods on the car, if you want a free replacement of the Mechatronics. Cosmetic bits should be fine.

If doing mods is important to you, keep aside 1.2l for DSG replacement.

[Vinay23]

Originally Posted by SLK

1) they reset the DSG, when this happens it acts wierd for a few days.

I'd asked the service advisor about that and they told me that they hadn't reset the DSG- in fact, they'd suggested that they reset the DSG and see if it resolves the issue.

2) they drove like maniacs up shifting at 6k and so on. While a lot of people promote that here! The DSG would have again gone out of tune.

The car drove fine for 3k kms after it came to my hands. The DSG started acting up exactly a week after the car came back from the ASC- precisely after refuelling and driving home.

Originally Posted by GoBlue

Have you gotten the warranty transferred to your name? Make sure that’s done, if not.

Oh I didn't know that warranties should be transferred. Will sort that out.

Make sure you get them to register your complaint of jerks on a job card. That will help when your DSG conks off (if at all).

Got it

And yes, don’t do any functional mods on the car, if you want a free replacement of the Mechatronics. Cosmetic bits should be fine.
If doing mods is important to you, keep aside 1.2l for DSG replacement.

That shouldn't be a problem- I'm planning on keeping the car stock for as long as possible.


Thank you for your replies!

[piy12b]

I faced a very unique issue recently. I have a vento 2015 TSI petrol automatic bought in 2016 and done around 45K kms. I was driving it one day with full load of 5 people when its underbody touched the road at one place but not much else seemed to have happened. Vento being a low ground clearance car does sometimes tend to scrape its underbody at speedbreakers, rough roads etc. especially when carrying 4-5 people. However, after driving a few kms more, the car started losing power as the rpm meter shot up. Since I was on a busy highway, it took me some distance to take the car to the side and stop it safely. Thereafter, after switching the car off, when I switched it on again, the engine check light came on.

I got the car towed to the nearest authorised service centre. After a few days, I got a call saying the car has oil leaking from its mechatronic unit and there is likely a gear failure as there was a clicking sound from the gearbox. The mechatronic had signs of hit on it near the place of oil drip. The authorised service centre gave an estimate of around 5.5 lakhs and asked to apply for the insurance approval. If approved, the car would likely have to go for total loss and IDV paid

However, after multiple surveys and long delay, the insurance company took the view that the gearbox issue was due to wear and tear. This was because when opened, the gearbox chamber showed metal particles and a small broken metal piece. Mechatronic was not functioning too. However, as per the insurance company, this malfunctioning of mechatronic was not due to the hit to the underbody. They say that the Mechatronic oil is high viscosity and given the drip speed, it might have been leaking for several days and it would be due to internal issue rather than due to an external hit. So now I am stuck with a huge repair bill and no insurance approval.

The options before me now are as follows:
1. Get the car repaired at the ASS (not preferred due to overly huge bill of 5 lakhs plus)
2. Get new parts sourced from outside and get it repaired (May still cost around 3.5 lakhs to 3.75 lakhs)
3. Get a second hand gearbox from used car parts dealers (may cost around 1.25 - 1.5 lakhs). Not sure of the reliability though.
4. Sell the car off in the current condition. (May get somewhere in the vicinity of 2.25 to 2.5 lakhs)

One added bit of information is that the car had a Mechatronic issue about 10 months back as well when the car suddenly started to skip even gears and only jump within odd gears. Then the mechatronic was replaced under goodwill by Volkswagen.

Can some well-informed BHPians guide me on whether the current gearbox failure really seems to be that of wear and tear? And also, what is my best bet in the current situation?

[nitkel]

Originally Posted by piy12b

I faced a very unique issue recently.

Can some well-informed BHPians guide me on whether the current gearbox failure really seems to be that of wear and tear? And also, what is my best bet in the current situation?

I believe both the insurance company and the dealer are taking you for a very expensive ride! Could you share the estimate here please? And to add to it, since your mechatronics was replaced a few months back, I don't think a new one would fail again so soon! Debris and broken parts in the GB means an impact related failure which corroborates with your story. You need to be very firm with the insurance company as well as the dealer here and get them in the same room/conference call to sort this out amicably. Even get the insurance Ombudsman and VW India involved. Otherwise, they will just keep pushing the blame on each other and eventually make you pay for no fault of yours!

[JoshMachine]

Originally Posted by piy12b

...
However, after multiple surveys and long delay, the insurance company took the view that the gearbox issue was due to wear and tear. This was because when opened, the gearbox chamber showed metal particles and a small broken metal piece.

Who provided this diagnosis - the dealer or the insurance company?

The options before me now are as follows:
1. Get the car repaired at the ASS (not preferred due to overly huge bill of 5 lakhs plus)
2. Get new parts sourced from outside and get it repaired (May still cost around 3.5 lakhs to 3.75 lakhs)
3. Get a second hand gearbox from used car parts dealers (may cost around 1.25 - 1.5 lakhs). Not sure of the reliability though.
4. Sell the car off in the current condition. (May get somewhere in the vicinity of 2.25 to 2.5 lakhs)

You should go for option 1, and get the dealer to pay for it since they replaced the unit just 10 months ago.

One added bit of information is that the car had a Mechatronic issue about 10 months back as well when the car suddenly started to skip even gears and only jump within odd gears. Then the mechatronic was replaced under goodwill by Volkswagen.

This is the most important piece of support that you have. A DQ200 failing within 10 months of replacement, is a sure-shot sign of improper installation.
Escalate to dealer management and if that doesnt work, then write to VW India Customer Care immediately.

[piy12b]

Originally Posted by JoshMachine

Who provided this diagnosis - the dealer or the insurance company?


You should go for option 1, and get the dealer to pay for it since they replaced the unit just 10 months ago.


This is the most important piece of support that you have. A DQ200 failing within 10 months of replacement, is a sure-shot sign of improper installation.
Escalate to dealer management and if that doesnt work, then write to VW India Customer Care immediately.

The initial diagnosis was provided by the ASS before the gearbox was opened with insurance co's approval. The insurance company had internal and external surveyors open and examine the gearbox and took the view that the damage was not due to impact. However, the ASS personnel have gotten on conference call with me and the insurance folks to argue that this was due to impact to the underbody which insurance personnel have rejected.

Since the gearbox is at a higher height, it couldn't have been hit directly I think. The Mechatronic is lower down and shows small dent ( but not sure dent was from then or earlier).

After the claim rejection, even the ASS guy mentioned that probably the gearbox metal particles issue would be a case of wear and tear. However, he maintains that the mechatronic damage is due to impact.