[drmohitg]

Originally Posted by akshay1234

Yes 3s, 5s, etc now come with space savers strapped onto the boot floor.

Oh! But it is still strapped to the boot eating into your boot space right? I thought they had done some design change to accomodate a spare wheel.

BTW so now they are offering the space saver with every car? I had to bargain mine into the deal last year and so did another BHPian too.

[Stiggy]

Originally Posted by drmohitg

What??

Can you please post pictures of the same? Kudos to them for finally addressing this issue. Any chances of the same change happening across the range?

I believe this is across the whole range of (standard) BMWs (3, 5, 7, X1, X3, X5).

Picture attached. Sorry, just went down to take a picture, it's late evening and the light is spotty.

[Sheel]

Originally Posted by drmohitg

Sir please tell me what is this "I will fill only clean fuel" statement that so many of us are saying means? What is the definition of clean fuel? And how do I procure it?

Hi Mohit! No need to call me Sir, please

That particular Audi wasn't the only one filling up at that HP pump and I believe being located @ Bombay, a lot of luxury cars should be filling up there, so how did the fuel quality impact only this Audi? Was the cause somewhere else?

Coming to your question, I try to fill up at BP COCO and while outside city, I fill up at places where I can spot lot of local traffic. Sorry, there is no definition of clean fuel & procuring it. You have to fill up @ reliable bunks and in case you do notice smoke or a drop in fuel economy, then change your bunk.

Btw, I believe, you got a wheel rim bent of your BMW while driving on our Indian roads? What can you do to avoid it? Therein lies the answer

[Slowjet]

This came as a shock that BMWs didn't provide spare wheel. It is just atrocious. The customers are taken for a ride. It may be run flat or whatever the latest stuff is but why are the customers buying it such cars. Are they taking informed decision knowing that there is no spare wheel. I don't know how are things are abroad but the so called luxury companies need to be penalised and penalised very heavily. Don't we have any rules that specify basic requirements in a car / vehicle

[V.Narayan]

So where does a customer go if he wants to buy a luxury car. I stopped short in August'14 from booking an E-class after doing my home work with friends and business associates on the A.S.S. of Mercedes; Audi was one hope but the attitude reflected in this case is most worrisome and BMW I don't like for its hard suspension and lack of a spare tyre. Volvo, Lexus? Or maybe move gears down to a Camry Hybrid and accept the reality of luxury car makers' A.S.S. in India for what it is.

[Stiggy]

Originally Posted by V.Narayan

So where does a customer go if he wants to buy a luxury car. I stopped short in August'14 from booking an E-class after doing my home work with friends and business associates on the A.S.S. of Mercedes; Audi was one hope but the attitude reflected in this case is most worrisome and BMW I don't like for its hard suspension and lack of a spare tyre. Volvo, Lexus? Or maybe move gears down to a Camry Hybrid and accept the reality of luxury car makers' A.S.S. in India for what it is.

Again, BMWs come with a spare tire now. Just look 2 posts above you.

Also, I think the 5 year BSI package + BMW Assure is definitely the way to go for hassle free (and relatively cheap) ownership. Look into these programs.

[drmohitg]

Originally Posted by Sheel

Btw, I believe, you got a wheel rim bent of your BMW while driving on our Indian roads? What can you do to avoid it? Therein lies the answer

But this is what I am saying. I know that the rims are prone to break so I avoid taking my car on an unknown route now. But I cannot do the same thing with the fuel right? I mean its not that I go and get fuel from that shady highway bunk. But there is only so much that an owner can do regarding fuel quality.

[roamer012]

Originally Posted by drmohitg

But this is what I am saying. I know that the rims are prone to break so I avoid taking my car on an unknown route now. But I cannot do the same thing with the fuel right? I mean its not that I go and get fuel from that shady highway bunk. But there is only so much that an owner can do regarding fuel quality.

Actually there a few things which one can do to ensure fuel quality while taking long trips. First off, there is common sentiment that you usually get poor quality fuel at outlets other than Company Owned and Company Operated (COCO). As a part of the industry let me assure you that there are several quality tests done at the outlets to ensure that customers get right fuel and right quantity, that does not mean that malpractices do not exist. Still the three PSUs in oil marketing offer options to plan your trip and have mapped retail outlets on maps. Secondly there are 3 basic checks which one can do while fueling at unknown outlet:

1. Visual check - Both Petrol and Diesel should be transparent and clear i.e. they should not have murky appearance (provided you are viewing them in clear glass container). This check also visually eliminates presence of water since water is not miscible in petrol and diesel and will settle down in the bottom. Apart from this there is water finding paste available at dealerships which will specifically change color in presence of water - this can be used if visual identification is not consistent.
2. Density Check - Dealerships are to maintain density records of every receipt and are to check this every day and record the same. This is the same check which has been described by HPCL in their letter to Mr. Sahil. This check eliminates chances of buying adulterated fuel.
3. Filter paper check - This check is specific to Petrol. Since petrol is highly volatile, when a few drops of petrol are poured on to filter paper (Make - Whatman-2) in a few minutes it should evaporate without leaving any spot on the filter paper. If any contaminant is present in the fuel, it will be left behind on filter paper.

As for quantity, Calibrated five liter measure is available at the dealerships to check the quantity of the fuel delivered.

Further OMCs have gone to automate many outlets which for a customer means that all transactions are recorded and stored on company's servers. This helps in bringing transparency for the customer. In few cases you also have option to receive SMS after fueling.

I hope this answers your query.

[lurker]

Originally Posted by Sheel

Hi Mohit! No need to call me Sir, please

That particular Audi wasn't the only one filling up at that HP pump and I believe being located @ Bombay, a lot of luxury cars should be filling up there, so how did the fuel quality impact only this Audi? Was the cause somewhere else?

Coming to your question, I try to fill up at BP COCO and while outside city, I fill up at places where I can spot lot of local traffic. Sorry, there is no definition of clean fuel & procuring it. You have to fill up @ reliable bunks and in case you do notice smoke or a drop in fuel economy, then change your bunk.

dear, it is not a problem with poor fuel, though that is the most common canard parroted out by VAG siblings for fuel pump failure.

here is a case in team bhp where a fuel pump owner has his Jetta 2.0 TDI fuel pump fail on him.

the sad thing here is, that even the replacement proved to be a lemon.

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techni...ine-light.html

[Khushrav]

It is not for the first time that I have heard Audi related issues. One of my close friends who was an ex Audi showroom employee vouches that several customers have multiple issues - mechanical and electrical and the service reputation is awefull.

[StarScream]

Seems like this is not an India issue alone:
http://www.thesmokingtire.com/2012/u...y-mpg-numbers/

[Fullrevs]

Congratulations to Sahil for winning the battle. I agree with many on the sentiment that "if your product doesnt suit the indian conditions, then dont bring it here". Who is helping who here in reality? Thought most of these cars makers manufacture for the consumers comfort and so on?

I wish the court didnt ask Sahil to put up the cost of the repairs in court. However, atleast this case has progressed.

A few of us disgruntled owners ought to get together and really rake the issue up. We have a involved and potent media today. Something should be done. A lot of these car manufacturers get away with "oh this india and so it wont work". Annoys the hell out of me really.

Sorry if this isnt relevant to the subject of this thread, but I had to add this in since some of us are talking about BMW and their famed run-flat tyres as well.

Originally Posted by Stiggy

I believe this is across the whole range of (standard) BMWs (3, 5, 7, X1, X3, X5).

Stiggy, are lucky you got a BMW recently, I was stuck buying a space saver because they didnt have the proper sized tyres in stock.

Picked up a puncture about 150km into the kerala highway. The tyre had a massive nail in it. Fine it is my fault I took the car from Bangalore to Kerala. Fine it is my fault I drove at 120km/hr and found a nail on the highway. Fine I take all the blame for what happened. Wait a minute, didnt I just buy a BMW which is the ultimate drivers car? A proper car to be enjoyed at decent speeds? Well apparently not.

Cant BMW just maintain stock? I was more than willing to pay for whats necessary rather than listen to them whining about this being India and I shouldnt have driven on the highway. They didnt have the tyre in BMW kerala or in BMW Bangalore. Their excuse? 525i doesnt sell that much so spares are not kept in stock. Who cares really? Am I forced to buy a diesel model because they wont have tyres for the petrol variant? Ridiculous. Finally, I went and bought a space saver from Bangalore. Got the driver in a night bus and he lugged the damn thing to my house in Kerala. I was without transport for 4 days because of this.

I have been looking for a windshield for my E60 525i for the past two months. A two-wheeler on the highway sprayed a small pebble into my windshield and that was it. Apparently the chunk of glass is still in Germany somewhere and will take some more time (even the A.S.S department dont know when).

They are all as bad as the other. I thought Mercedes would probably not have these issues considering they were here first to come to our shores. Ive read some really bad reports on newly purchased vehicles. A fellow member reported a persisting engine sensor and A/C problem in his brand new ML.

[StarScream]

Originally Posted by Fullrevs

Picked up a puncture about 150km into the kerala highway. The tyre had a massive nail in it. Fine it is my fault I took the car from Bangalore to Kerala. Fine it is my fault I drove at 120km/hr and found a nail on the highway. Fine I take all the blame for what happened. Wait a minute, didnt I just buy a BMW which is the ultimate drivers car? A proper car to be enjoyed at decent speeds? Well apparently not.

Cant BMW just maintain stock? I was more than willing to pay for whats necessary rather than listen to them whining about this being India and I shouldnt have driven on the highway. They didnt have the tyre in BMW kerala or in BMW Bangalore. Their excuse? 525i doesnt sell that much so spares are not kept in stock. Who cares really? Am I forced to buy a diesel model because they wont have tyres for the petrol variant? Ridiculous. Finally, I went and bought a space saver from Bangalore. Got the driver in a night bus and he lugged the damn thing to my house in Kerala. I was without transport for 4 days because of this.

I have been looking for a windshield for my E60 525i for the past two months. A two-wheeler on the highway sprayed a small pebble into my windshield and that was it. Apparently the chunk of glass is still in Germany somewhere and will take some more time (even the A.S.S department dont know when).

These incidents are shocking. It really seems from their attitude that these companies are only here to make a fast buck.

On a separate note, i was surprised when my brother (with a 520D) and his brother-in-law (with an E-Class) take their cars to an independent garage across the road from Hyatt Regency in Delhi. If parts are needed, they are sourced and shipped from Germany, which still works out cheaper than official India prices. The last I remember, one fused LED bulb for the BMW's rear cluster was replaced by the garage. BMW India said they can only change the full cluster, for one bulb!

Now I realize why having such an option is essential for owning these cars.

[seeths]

Shocking and makes me nervous about my recent choice with Volkswagen....I suspect that could be a potential issue with all their cars originally designed for "refined" fuel.

I own a Volkswagen Vento (2013 August model) and in June 2014 (less than a year !) had the 'coil' flash in the dashboard indicating 'engine management system fault'. Took the car to TVS Volkswagen Chennai Service - car held for two days and was told it is a sensor issue that it was replaced in warranty. Problem seemed to be solved....until....

Again in October 2014, had the 'coil' flash again. Took it back to TVS, the service engineer assigned seem cordial and said would try to get the vehicle back the same day and call me the same day for an update.
Day 2: didn't hear back so I called him and got to know they were troubshooting and would et me know as soon as they figure out.
Day3: didn't hear back so I called again, and got to know that Volkswagen was directly involved as this looks to be complicated issue to crack(from what I could infer - it sounded like a remote support team at Volkswagen assigned to this dealer and transacting troubleshooting instructions with the dealer's service rep who had given up).
Day 4: no updates, so I again called back the service rep, furious at their lack of response.....(it was raining that week and without my car had to rely on taxis for commute proving to be expensive). Was told this could be a adulterated fuel issue and they are still investigating. Later was told the entire Fuel system, CR system and injectors are being replaced and the cost would be covered in warranty.
Day 5: called back the service rep, and was told they did a fuel test and it cleared. So they do not suspect it to be a fuel issue. I escalated asking for an ETA and was connected to Sundarajan (Service Manager at TPV), he seemed to be cordial was understood my predicament. He got a spare car arranged (a polo) to manage in the interim.
Day 6 and Day 7 - Saturday and Sunday.
Day 8: called back and was told Volkswagen has visiting technician to their(dealers) site that week and they would look into it.
Day 9: was informed the problem has been identified - not the fuel pump but possibly a relay in the dash that is faulty.
Day 10: Was informed its fixed ! The service manager was very courtious and seemed to want to help with prompt call back - said they would do a 150 km test drive to ensure this doesn't occur again. And on a low note was told that the fuel pump has also been replaced at no cost - dunno if to make me happy or was it faulty too .
Have asked for documentation with date stamp. on all changed parts (still waiting on it)

While I am happy with TVS Chennai's handling (also heard from my colleagues at my IT MNC that also had a corporate car relationship with TVS Honda) in Chennai - its Volkswagen India that worried (and continues to worry) me....


Another instance on fuel pump replacement: My wife owned a Skoda 1.6 petrol (for 2 years before we moved to Vento) and in a year of purchase, we heard a faint humming noise along with the engine chatter. The fuel pump was replaced by Skoda through warranty.



Sorry, if I highjacked this thread for a bit - thought would be prudent to share my experience.

[nitinbose]

Hi Sahil,

Congrats on your victory!

Its a lazy statement given by the dealers that the damage is due to the fuel used. Do they expect us to stop by the fuel station and test the fuel before filling up our vehicles? If the dealer mentions adultered fuel, in what way was it adultered?

I guess the German cars are not considering India as a serious market for them and that the sales target figures must be some three digit figures which they're easily doing and remaining relaxed, least bothered to what happens after the sales.