[petrolveins]

Hi all

Engine is the heart of any car...for that matter any automobile. Let's look at a car as an engine with metal wrapped around it. Each company has a different way to wrap the metal and this is where the designers, safety experts come into picture.

In this thread let's concentrate on the Petrol engines that are turbo charged and available in India in cars of C segment (that's where majority of the sales are - C and below segment).

Now, I would like to take forum member's opinion to rate these engines on

1. Reliability
2. Fuel efficiency
3. Power/Torque output
4. Dynamics (like weight for example, Ecoboost engine weighs more could be due to the metal used in the engine - Cast Iron)
5. Suitability of the engine to Indian conditions (important factor after these DSG issues)
6. Drivability

Depending on the above or any other factors, which engine do you rate the most and why?

[robimahanta]

Well I would like to put across my opinion regarding the Polo 1.2 TSI and the Ford Ecosport 1L Ecoboost (Titanium) as I have driven both the cars extensively over the last 10 months or so.

Reliability: Both are new cars and it’s too early to comment on reliability.

Fuel efficiency: Although the Ford is rated higher as per ARAI, I have achieved very similar mileage from both cars. Its around 12-13kmpl.

Power/Torque: Polo GT Tsi is rated at 105PS (5000rpm) 175 Nm(1500-4000rpm) while the Ford Ecosport Ecoboost is rated at 125PS(4200rpm) and 172(1400-4500rpm) on paper. But in reality, the Polo feels way faster than the Ford. In the Ford, there is a considerable amount of turbo lag till around 2000rpm but the DSG in the polo makes is almost lag free and city drivability is much better. Moreover, the NVH level in the Polo is better than the Ford. The Ecoboost being a 3 cylinder feels less refined even though Ford engineers have done an incredible job to cut down the NVH.
The Ecoboost however, is more responsive in the higher rpms while there is a dip in power beyond 5000 rpm in the Polo.

Dynamics: Incase you are referring to handling, then the Polo again wins hands down. ESP, lower weight and stance helps the Polo to rule the Ecosport from a handling perspective. The steering feel and the stock suspension setup in the Ford is tad better than the polo though.

Suitability to Indian conditions: Again needs to be seen, as its too early to comment.

Drivability: In the city, I would prefer the Polo as it’s a better overall package. I am not a subscriber of the norm that the best driver’s car is a stick shift. An analogy that comes to mind is that of the film SLR cameras and Digital SLRS. With the advent of DSLR’s all the so-called pro photographers banished it saying film is way better. But over the years digital has triumphed and films SLRs are a dying breed today.


Ford should put the 1L Ecoboost engine in the Figo, then it would be an even contest.

[Rajeevraj]

Nice thread. Not an expert to do any comparison. But one thing I can say for sure. After experiencing a turbo petrol I think it would be very difficult for me to willingly go back to a regular petrol car as a primary ride. Hope manufacturers increase the range and availability across models for such engines.

[FINTAIL]

The Fiat T-Jet is a jem!

It just pulls-pulls and pulllls! I mean...Well, you get my point, don't you?

Turbo Petrols, are gems. The T-Jet is the best of the lot as -

Don't You think that the Ford EcoBoost is too small? An A4 Sized paper can cover it, according to Tiff Needell.

VW: The unit is quite high tech. However, due to its utter complexity, (Remember-VW is capable of Horror stories), and because of its smaller displacement, its a turn off.

The T-Jet it is!

Cheerio!

[gsurya]

Fiat 1.4 TJet is surely the best engine of the 3.

Polo 1.2 Tsi is 2nd best but is a beauty - wish Polo offered a 1.2 Manual TSi car to really see how it behaves instead of just with an auto tranny.


Ford Ecoboost lacks lower end torque, but if thats recalibrated in a future upgrade, would then be at par with the other two.

[hothatchaway]

^^^agree, what also works for the Linea Tjet is its handling and driving dynamics package; that just takes the already class act of an engine to a different league altogether.

Even I was used to wear my MT loyalty on my sleeve, but having driven the Polo TSI it has put sufficient doubt in my mind over which one would win the enthusiast over. The way the tranny shifts down when you floor the pedal is simply addictive

[Santoshbhat]

Reliability : Though its early to comment on reliability, I haven't read about any engine failures in either of these engines. So I guess they're on par.

Power and Torque : On paper the 1.2 TSI is the lowest. But I don't think that translates into any great difference in on road performance. The T Jet should be the quickest with its displacement advantage. The power and torque ratings of the 1.0L Ecoboost though stand out when you consider its just a 1 litre engine!

Fuel efficiency : I think this is one weak area of the T Jet. Being a 1.4L Turbo petrol it hardly offers any better mileage that the N.A 1.6L petrol engines out there.
The 1.2 TSI can be very frugal when driven with a light foot. In crawling traffic the FE drops quite significantly. The 7 DSG makes it very efficient while cruising on empty roads I suppose with the extra ratios, whereas in city traffic the AT box brings down the FE a bit.
The smaller displacement of the 1.0L should have given it a real advantage here. Otherwise what's the point in making such a small engine? I expected better FE figures that what currently is being reported.


Dynamics : I think this is irrelevant when comparing engines!

Suitablility of the engines to Indian conditions : No failures yet, so they are all suitable. Also the fact that none of them require high octane fuel and can happily survive on the kind of petrol dished out by our OMCs , makes them suitable for our conditions. Maintain proper oil levels, don't redline frequently, go easy when cold, etc..... and they'll be fine.

Driveability : Depends on the gearing and ratios chosen.

Edit : Another important aspects when comparing engines is the NVH and refinement. Owners can comment on this aspect too.

[v.anand]

My choice is 1.2 TSI if automatic and 1.0 Ecoboost if manual. Both these are better than the best 1.6 petrols of old and are immense fun to live with. No problem with reliability with either of these choices.

As for Fiat T-jet, its a little old tech compared to the other two and also comes with very old gear box. When Fiat offers Multiair engines with modern gear box, then its a different matter but doesn't look likely to happen any time soon. Fiat is the slowest to bring technology to our shores.

[MRAMAB]

The choices are very tempting, I would have chosen the T-Jet hands down except for the FE, any real world figures on that yet? Fiat claims an ARAI of 15kmpl, which i doubt very much.

[Chethan B G]

Fiat Linea is a much heavier car.

My choice would be:

1. Fiat's 1.4 - Rev happy engine.
2. VW 1.2 - Negligible Turbo Lag.
3. Ford's 1.0 - Good top-end performance - Relatively new in the market.

But, long term reliability is the key. Will have to wait and watch....

[0-100]

I have not driven the Eco Sports so cannot comment on that car. But a close friend of mine owns a Polo TSI from the last 6 months, so drive it quite frequently and have driven the new Linea T-jet twice. So my opinion would be regarding Polo and Linea.

Reliability: Both the engines seem to be trouble free. Haven't read or heard any problem about them in recent times. I think that has got to do with the new DSG gearbox.

Fuel Efficiency: ARAI Figures claimed are more for Polo TSI than Linea T-jet. Polo is 17.2 and Linea is 15.4 (I guess). When asked from the Fiat guy, he told me car gives 11-12 in the city and 14-15 on highway. Whereas Polo gives 12-13 in the city and 15-16 on highway depending on light or how hard you hit the gas pedal. Special mentioning here that if you really drive the Polo hard, it is capable of giving you a mileage of 5-6... seriously.

Power: Power in Polo is 105 BHP from 1.2 litre turbo charged engine and 114 BHP from 1.4 litre turbo charged unit. There is a hint of turbo lag below 1800 RPM in Linea but after crossing that you'll realize why Fiat discontinued all other petrol variant in Linea. Being such a heavy and stable car you might not feel the speed but once you look into the speedo, you will realize that you are actually doing very good speed. Tjet engine actually makes Linea so much fun to drive.
Talking about Polo, this one has gem of an engine coupled with DSG Gearbox. Even Polo has little turbo lag below 1600 RPM but DSG gearbox really masks it well and does'nt matter if you are in 'D' mode or 'S' mode, just put your foot down and this car takes off like anything staright away engaging the 3rd gear all the way from 7th. We once tried doing 0-100 in 'S' mode and it took 9.8 or 9.9 seconds.

Dynamics: Talking about dynamics you just cannot go wrong with Fiat cars despite Linea's 190mm of ground clearance. It feels rock solid on straight lines and even curves. It actually feels like a small tank like many people have mentioned here in the forum. There came a point while test driving it for the first time, that there was no road beyond ie. road yet to constructed and only stones laid in front. I was taking a U-turn but the sales executive asked me to take car on that stretch and drive it any speed. Obviously starting off with slow speed I gradually increased the speed till 75-80 and all we could feel was little rough road under, thats it.
Polo too feels very good dynamically. Be it ride quality which is good at low speed and improves drastically at high speed or be it handling which is very good in straight line and curves too, big credit for being stable at curves goes to ESP though. Special mention to the cabin which is really very silent.

Suitability: Like already mentioned before, no complaints in Tjet and DSG too after the some changes in DSG few months back. Both run perfectly fine on Normal Petrol.

Drivability: Use the gear well in Linea and it will offer very good drivabilty with just little bit of lag below 1700-1800 RPM. And with perfect combination of Turbo Charged Petrol and DSG Gearbox, you really dont need to worry about drivability in Polo TSI.

Happy Driving In Both !!

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[sandeepmohan]

I have experienced all the three engines and I have to the say the VW 1.2TSI gets pretty close to the T Jet experience. What dogs the T Jet is the car its in which is super heavy. Even with this weight, it is a little scary if you are careless with the throttle. If you don't hold on to the steering tight and mash the pedal, you are surely ramming into the median. The torque steer that this engine manages on such a heavy car is to be experienced. However; the T Jet just about cuts it for the Linea. It is fast and fun. When it comes to the much talked about economy, it is the worst among the three. Highly sensitive to the way you drive but I suppose this goes with most turbo petrols. My city economy ranges between 8.5 - 11. How do you explain this variance. This engine is the new gas guzzler from Fiat. I Like.

As for the Ford, I felt it required a little more effort to get all that performance out of the engine. It is brilliant for what it is. So much power from such a small block is an achievement.

For refinement, I felt the TSI had an edge over the T Jet. I still have high praises for the Ford Ecoboost on refinement. You have to remember its a three pot and I don't know of any three pot that can be as refined as a four.

I love the vocal chords of both the T Jet and TSI. The Ford was lame.

I can't speak for the other cars on reliability. It is also too early to comment on the reliability of a two and a half year old T Jet. So far so good is all I can say. In general, I don't think petrol engine's suffer from any kind of mechanical reliability issues.

The T Jet should easily top the scales on weight. Has there even been a light weight Fiat? Even the Abarth weighs a ton.

Suitability. We are talking only engines right? The DSG should not be in here. I have not had any concerns with regard to fuel quality. What I will say is there is a noticeable drop in power from my T Jet in extremely hot weather conditions. Very noticeable in bumper traffic. The engine hates it and you feel turbo lag has increased. No concerns when hammering down the highway. The engine responds well.

[JediKnight]

I have driven all the three engines and i will say that can't hold a candle to the new iVtech in Honda city. i-Vtech beats all of them real world performance on all factors : Performance/Fuel efficiency/Reliability/Flexibility.

Honda has made mockery of the small turbo charged engine technology which is supposed to be the next generation. Or may be we have to wait for Honda to make a small turbo petrol to see the real potential.

[ahmad.007]

Originally Posted by JediKnight

I have driven all the three engines and i will say that can't hold a candle to the new iVtech in Honda city. i-Vtech beats all of them real world performance on all factors : Performance/Fuel efficiency/Reliability/Flexibility.

Honda has made mockery of the small turbo charged engine technology which is supposed to be the next generation. Or may be we have to wait for Honda to make a small turbo petrol to see the real potential.

I think I would have to stop you just there. Honda is good for what it is, the ivtecs are gems wrapped in technology. The top end is undeniably the best. But, turbo charged engines have a distinct feel to them, be it petrol or diesel. The torque is the main power generating variable of an engine, and power is just a function of torque (torque*rpm). Turbo charged engines give significantly you more torque (hence power) in the mid range which no naturally aspirated engine will deliver. While the ivtecs need to be revved to perform, the turbos provide effortless power as majority of the people don't like to hover near the redline all the time due to economy and NVH constraints.
And no Honda has not made a mockery of turbos, they are still trying to get their pathetic low end torque right.

Coming on the subject of the thread, I feel the Baby TSI is the best of the lot when you consider quite a lot of variables. It feels quicker than the Ecoboost, and more refined than the T-Jet while delivering similar efficiency and also comes with a DSG (pro or con you decide). If it was'nt for the heavy Linea, T-Jet would have been my choice.
And if you can find a preowned beast there is nothing that can beat the Laura 1.8 TSI. Cheers.

[atlantis0965]

Originally Posted by sandeepmohan

What I will say is there is a noticeable drop in power from my T Jet in extremely hot weather conditions. Very noticeable in bumper traffic. The engine hates it and you feel turbo lag has increased. .

hi

I agree with you completely on this front because even in my TSi I can feel the difference in the way it drives in similar traffic conditions during early mornings and during afternoon times.

Also the FE too drops from 14.8km/l to about 12.3km/l for the same distance and traffic conditions.