[GrandTourer]

Hi Folks,

I have a 2018 Polo GT TSI, which was sitting idle for 3 weeks this December. However, last week I took it out for a short drive and everything was fine.
Today morning the car is cranking, but the engine won't start. All lights, remote locking, head unit, cabin lights, etc. are all working fine (No dimming of any lights).

The battery is still stock (5 years next month), but I haven't tested the voltage on the terminals yet, as I had to rush to office.

1. Apart from checking the battery, what else should I be looking at?
2. If it does turn out to be a battery issue (hopefully), is there a good service that can help with jump start, like GoMechanic or something? I don't have the cables to do it myself.

Please let me know. This is the first time in 5 years the car didn't start at half a crank.

[ka51resident]

When I took a break off T-BHP, I expected to post in the "I Booked My Car" Thread to mark my return. Even in the worst of my overthinking simulations did I think that I would be writing about Angela (my beloved 2013 VW Polo 1.6 GT TDI).

A brief summary of what happened:

November 9, 2022: I sent in my car for a full-body repaint at a known local workshop.

November 15, 2022: The car was supposed to be delivered but my manager (Mr. S, who was supervising and managing the whole thing) informed me that the car isn't starting. I assumed it's probably because of something to do with the battery. Mr. S had the battery changed and the car would start but shut off in 2 seconds. Then the car wouldn't start. All the lights on the IC would light up but the car starts and just shuts off.

November 22, 2022: We sent the car to Bosch where it was getting serviced under an AMC. They took about 2 weeks and they informed me that they have checked everything and they cannot figure out the issue. They asked for the car to be sent to VW ASC for a better evaluation.

circa December 2022: The car was sent to VW ASC near Hosa Road Junction and they informed that they have never encountered such an issue before and they need to wait for their Senior Technician to check the car.

*After a long time*

3rd Week of January, 2023: Mr. S and I went to the VW ASC as there was radio silence from them. We went there and asked for a concrete response and the Senior Technician's response was "We have worked on a thousand cars but we have never encountered such an issue. The only thing we can think of is for you to change the 1. Engine Wiring Harness, 2. Central Wiring Harness and a few other things after which we will be able to check where the issue is coming from. They quoted close to 1.2L for the above parts.

Upon hearing this, I called a friend who has quite the expertise and his response was - "first its the wiring harness, then he will say ECM, then the ECU; all in all, you would be looking at upwards of Rs. 2 Lakhs".

Where we are now
I am having the car towed back to my place today. In a week's time, my father and another person with knowledge in Electrical&Electronics are going to a friend's garage where we are going to take the car apart and see where the issue is stemming from.

It sucks to see an Unicorn in a coma.

--
Pardon the sentimantal long post but this was my first car, gifted by my folks on my 18th birthday. I wanted my kid (when I have one) to have it when they turned 18. Though some may say it was too much power for an 18 year old, I can proudly say that I have never received a fine on it for anything. Perhaps that's why I managed to drive the F-Type for 3 years without a single incident.

[BLACNWYTE]

Hello folks,

I'm facing a problem with my FIL's car, which I haven't encountered before. The car in question is a 2014 MS Swift LXI. It was working fine as of day before yesterday. But, yesterday evening when I tried to start it, it's not responding. I mean all display turns off as soon as the key goes to ACC position.

I checked the battery and it's showing that green circle which indicates that battery is okay. I tried starting it today morning with same effect when the door is opened, the dashboard shows the door ajar warning. When key is inserted with door open it gives out continuous beeps as usual. The first turn of the key which unlocks the steering wheel is also fine but as soon as I put it in ACC, few of the lights in the dashboard come on for a fraction of second and everything goes off and the alarm beeps twice. Not even the door ajar warning will be lit up. If I try to crank, then also nothing. No lights no sound.

When the key is back to steering lock position after a few seconds the door ajar warning lights up. But if I try to start the whole process repeats. (The door was open the whole time).

I visually checks the engine by and couldn't find any wires cut or bit. What could I be looking at?

[Jeroen]

Originally Posted by BLACNWYTE

I visually checks the engine by and couldn't find any wires cut or bit. What could I be looking at?

Given the symptoms I would still think it is a battery, or connector problem.

The little green dot we use as indicator for the status of the battery is not necessarily fool proof. With everything shutting down as soon as you turn the ignition, is an indication your battery is extremely weak, or the main electrical connections on the battery are perhaps loose or corroded.

Check those connections visually and just pull on the main battery cable a little bit, see if anything moves. Look for signs of corrosion on the battery terminals, the ground cable connection to the chassis.

There are other possible electrical suspects, but always start with the main terminals.

If it is the battery it is likely to be in very poor state with these symptoms. A simple voltmeter test will tell, better yet a proper battery tester. Here is a good simple video how to use a multimeter for testing a car battery.

https://youtu.be/COJr7OB23Hw

Good luck, let’s us know what the problem was.

Jeroen

[saket77]

Originally Posted by BLACNWYTE

Hello folks,

I'm facing a problem with my FIL's car, which I haven't encountered before. The car in question is a 2014 MS Swift LXI. It was working fine as of day before yesterday. But, yesterday evening when I tried to start it, it's not responding. I mean all display turns off as soon as the key goes to ACC position.

The status window on battery shows the health of only one cell, in which the window is installed. Hence, you cannot take it to draw the final conclusion. Other cells might have given up.

Another case might be that your battery is indeed good but the car wiring terminal connections on them are having bad contact with the battery terminals. Check both the stuff and that should clear the air on the issue.

Regards,
Saket

[Aroy]

[quote=BLACNWYTE;5563397]Hello folks,

I'm facing a problem with my FIL's car, which I haven't encountered before. The car in question is a 2014 MS Swift LXI. It was working fine as of day before yesterday. But, yesterday evening when I tried to start it, it's not responding. I mean all display turns off as soon as the key goes to ACC position.

/QUOTE]

This is definitely a battery problem, that is the moment the started motor activates it draws excessive current dropping the voltage drastically.

1. Check water in each cell, as mentioned the circle is for one cell only.

2. Many a time the terminals get loose. So check and tighten the cables on the battery. Also try pulling/shaking the cable, the cable can also become loose in the terminal lug.

[BLACNWYTE]

Originally Posted by Jeroen

Given the symptoms I would still think it is a battery, or connector problem.

Originally Posted by saket77

The status window on battery shows the health of only one cell, in which the window is installed. Hence, you cannot take it to draw the final conclusion. Other cells might have given up.

Originally Posted by Aroy

This is definitely a battery problem, that is the moment the started motor activates it draws excessive current dropping the voltage drastically.

Thank you for the quick replies.

Checked the battery connections and found that the negative terminal connection was a little loose. Tightened it but the problem persisted.

Removed the battery and gave it for charging. Received the battery back yesterday evening connected it and tried again. Improvement from the last situation but the car still won't start. This time all the dash board lights came on and when I cranked it instant powerloss. All lights went off and once I put it back to ACC, lights came back albeit flickering but that settled down after a couple of seconds. I tried the AC blower and it was working, so were the parking lights but as soon as I switch to main headlamps, again total powerloss. So, I guess the battery is gone, not holding enough charge for cranking or headlights.

Funnily, the garage where the battery was given for charging didn't tell anything about the condition of battery. And now, I have been told by my FIL that during the last service in Dec 2022, they had told that the battery needed to be replaced but since the car was cranking he ignored it . Even after that for about 6 months the car started without any problem except suddenly two days before.

Have called the MSIL ASS, they came with a new battery and the problem is resolved now. Replaced the old SF Sonic battery with Amaron PRO. The new battery has 72 months warranty.

What stumped me in the whole situation was that the battery life indicator was showing all OK, the car didn't have any starting delay up until 2 days ago and it was the first time I was seeing this kind of powerloss. When the battery in our Panda (Creta) conked off, there was signs and all things happened gradually. The cranking times were longer, had to switch even the harzard lights off to start it once. Once again, I am very grateful to the help received.

[Aroy]

Originally Posted by BLACNWYTE

Thank you for the quick replies.
..........................

What stumped me in the whole situation was that the battery life indicator was showing all OK, the car didn't have any starting delay up until 2 days ago and it was the first time I was seeing this kind of powerloss. When the battery in our Panda (Creta) conked off, there was signs and all things happened gradually. The cranking times were longer, had to switch even the harzard lights off to start it once. Once again, I am very grateful to the help received.

Sometimes, the material (lead compound) from the plates falls off and shorts the cell. Once that happens there is no life left in that cell. In your case the battery indicator wpould be in the cell that was fine, but the cell that had failed has no indicator.

In older batteries, one could access each cell and test its capacity. If only one cell had failed, the battery mechanics would replace that cell only. Unfortunately that is not possible in modern batteries.

[rigyal_y]

I have a Skoda Laura 2013, with about 68000 on the odometer. My remote battery died, so I went to a shop and got the battery replaced. The car unlocked as normal, but as soon as I started it, the engine immediately cut off with the EPC warning light coming on. Also, the MID started displaying a "NO KEY" message. The problem is that as soon as I start it, the engine immediately cuts off and doesn't allow me to move at all. Could any Skoda/VW owner help if they've faced a similar issue? Thanks in Advance!

[srvm]

Sharing my experience over the last month for others benefit.

1. Towards the end of May, I was driving to Bangalore airport with family*. I reached the parking lot, and when I came to a halt looking for a parking spot, my engine died. However much I tried, the engine cranked but never started again. With the help of a good samaritan, I could park the vehicle. I removed the -ve terminal of battery and went to arrival gate to receive someone. When I came back few hours later, I reconnected the battery terminal, and the engine thankfully fired up (it was close to 2am) and I reached home without any drama.

*At the entrance to airport, there is a place with 2-3 contiguous big speed humps where when you go at 5-10 kmph, you feel like riding a boat.


2. Last week, I was going from C V Raman Nagar to Basavanagudi. While I was on Old Airport Road**, once again the car abruptly stalled near a signal and never started again. I quickly sent away my family in a Uber and started checking the manual and fuses in the engine compartment. All relevant fuses were in good shape. Again, left with no other option (it was a Sunday evening, all service centers were closed), I disconnected the -ve terminal of the battery and waited for 15 minutes.
Re-connected the terminal, and the engine fired up soon after. Slowly, gingerly went for a test drive near populated areas and inside my office campus for an hour. Even filled up petrol in a fuel pump. Switched off and on the engine several times and everything worked as expected.
So, continued to Basavanagudi to pick up my family and the car stalled once again at a signal on Lalbagh road**. Now at wits end, I tried the same old battery routine. Again the car started after 20 minutes of battery disconnect. Reached Basavanagudi by driving cautiously.

** At Old Airport road and Lalbagh road, there are few rumbler strips over which I rode at about 40-50 kmph (it will be a momentarily jarring ride). This is the normal speed of traffic at these places and slowing down for these rumblers greatly increases your risk of getting rear-ended. After crossing these rumbler strips, something felt not right about the car. Like it was struggling to maintain the RPM and was being held back by an invisible force.


3. After reaching venue, I did not disconnect the battery. My only aim was to get my family to home safely for the night. After 2 hours of break (around 10.30pm), while trying to start the car in the parking lot of the venue, the car sputtered and came to a jerky stop near the exit itself. Did not take any risks with family with me. Pushed the car again back to the parking lot, disconnected the battery -ve terminal and took an Uber home with family.

4. I read the manual of the car thoroughly next morning. Based on the tell-tale signs, I was fairly certain that this was related to fuel pump not getting proper electrical power. (Fuel pump was replaced in Sep-2022 and Battery was replaced in Dec-2022. So I was not doubting them yet). Fuses were already checked (also the car did run intermittently) and ruled out as possible culprits. The next suspect was the ignition relay (followed by fuel pump relay).
Reached the venue on Monday morning. To test my suspicion, I connected the battery and fired up the engine. Car started and idled for about a minute and then slowly the RPM died down to zero. Next, I swapped the ignition relay with (same rated) radiation fan relay (5 pin, 12V DC, 85 ohm, 30/40 Amp rating). Voila! The engine started in 1st attempt with no hiccups.

5. Drove slowly (wasn't sure if the faulty relay now placed in the radiation fan circuit will create problems in city traffic) to the nearest service center (Kropex Auto, Koramangala). Bought a relay (INR 390) and fixed it in the engine compartment fuse box. The car has been working fine for the past 2 days.

My guess is that the faulty relay was acting up whenever I went through sharp humps or rumbler strips.


The parts highlighted in bold were the key data / information to figuring out the possible culprit. I hope the starting troubles are behind me.

Lessons learned:
1. Stay calm and think about the circumstances that cause unusual behavior of the car.
2. Read the user manual.
3. Carry useful tools in the boot. Don't hesitate to get your hands dirty, if needed.
4. Simple electrical faults (such as blown fuses) are somewhat easy to diagnose and solve. I have seen numerous examples of friends/neighbors requiring help of a mechanic to replace a punctured tyre!


P.S: I have to admit, at times I was thinking, "What would BHPian Jeroen do/suggest in this situation?"

[aqualeo2040]

Originally Posted by srvm

Sharing my experience over the last month for others benefit.

Car started and idled for about a minute and then slowly the RPM died down to zero. Next, I swapped the ignition relay with (same rated) radiation fan relay (5 pin, 12V DC, 85 ohm, 30/40 Amp rating). Voila! The engine started in 1st attempt with no hiccups.


P.S: I have to admit, at times I was thinking, "What would BHPian Jeroen do/suggest in this situation?"

Very good diagnosis.
Intermittent issues are difficult to isolate/replicate and issues with mechanical parts would have been my first thought. Plus the fact that the Fuel Pump was recently replaced, would indicate possible mis-handling during fitment?
However, given the proximity of the fuse box, the continuity test is the easier eliminator option.
Did you get around checking the Relay for that please?

[KkVaidya]

Originally Posted by srvm

Sharing my experience over the last month for others benefit.

Thanks for the detailed information. Can you share car make and year?

[srvm]

Originally Posted by KkVaidya

Thanks for the detailed information. Can you share car make and year?

Tata Zest petrol, 2016 make

[srvm]

Originally Posted by aqualeo2040

Very good diagnosis.
Intermittent issues are difficult to isolate/replicate and issues with mechanical parts would have been my first thought. Plus the fact that the Fuel Pump was recently replaced, would indicate possible mis-handling during fitment?

Thank you.

Service center (Kropex Auto, Marathahalli) did bungle-up during installation of fuel pump in Sept-2022 .
Fuel was leaking from below the car every time I tanked-up. Got it sorted out in Nov-2022 by the same service center guys. Kept an eagle eye on them while they reinstalled the fuel pump. (Diagnosis: O-ring was not put properly the first time around and it got damaged ).
Since then I had done about 5000kms without any issues. Hence, I wasn't doubting the fuel-pump or its installation at this stage. I would have considered it as a possibility if changing the ignition relay did not solve the issue.

Originally Posted by aqualeo2040

However, given the proximity of the fuse box, the continuity test is the easier eliminator option. Did you get around checking the Relay for that please?

Can you please elaborate on the continuity test? Between which points are you referring to?

[aqualeo2040]

Originally Posted by srvm

Can you please elaborate on the continuity test? Between which points are you referring to?

Probably this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=snV2eZb8FoE

I had some issues with Parasitic draw in my car and had to literally pull out fuses and relays to zero in (an extremely painful exercise, and a massive test of patience)