[WhiteSierra]

Originally Posted by TaurusSHO

For weeks now, I've been facing a problem while starting the car. Whenever I start the car in the morning, the whole car shakes and vibrates for a couple of seconds and then it dies. But when I turn on the ignition again, it starts and runs smoothly, no violent shaking.

Took the car for a service, they inspected and changed the spark plugs as per their recommendation but it did not help. I'm thinking it has got something to do with a bad sensor? What could be the problem?

Could also be a faulty fuel pump or even contaminated fuel in the tank. Was it parked for a long time unused? If it is a relatively older car, get the fuel tank opened, dispose off old fuel, get the fuel pump inspected and fix it back.

[TaurusSHO]

Originally Posted by WhiteSierra

Was it parked for a long time unused? If it is a relatively older car, get the fuel tank opened, dispose off old fuel, get the fuel pump inspected and fix it back.

Yes for some years now, the car's mostly been idle, only gets used when needed. The car is almost 10 years old.
Thank you for the fix, will definitely look into that.

[Aroy]

Originally Posted by TaurusSHO

For weeks now, I've been facing a problem while starting the car. Whenever I start the car in the morning, the whole car shakes and vibrates for a couple of seconds and then it dies. But when I turn on the ignition again, it starts and runs smoothly, no violent shaking.

Took the car for a service, they inspected and changed the spark plugs as per their recommendation but it did not help. I'm thinking it has got something to do with a bad sensor? What could be the problem?

Check the engine mountings. If the card is more than 7 years old, the rubber may have gone soft.

Cold starts produce vibrations, but they are supposed to be controlled by the engine mounts.

[ChoosetoCruze]

Originally Posted by TaurusSHO

For weeks now, I've been facing a problem while starting the car. Whenever I start the car in the morning, the whole car shakes and vibrates for a couple of seconds and then it dies. But when I turn on the ignition again, it starts and runs smoothly, no violent shaking.

Took the car for a service, they inspected and changed the spark plugs as per their recommendation but it did not help. I'm thinking it has got something to do with a bad sensor? What could be the problem?

I had a bad ignition coil which had symptoms very similar to yours only on cold starts (the first every morning). It would start, misfire & vibrate badly, almost die out (but barely continue running) and then after the engine warmed up, the symptoms would mysteriously vanish. After leaving the car overnight at my FNG, they diagnosed it to be a bad ignition coil the next morning. The CEL never turned on, nor was there any saved codes on the ECU.

Also, I would check/clean/replace the MAF sensor which may be sending wrong airflow data on cold starts.

It may be a clogged fuel pump/filter but then that will clearly affect acceleration or when you drive on steep inclines. To rule it out, get the fuel pump pressure tested.

I highly doubt engine mounts will have anything to do with the engine stalling & dying out.

[arpirocks]

The latest incident with Honda City 2020 CVT (Petrol)

I was running some errands, parked the car outside a shop. Came back after 5-10 mins and the car refused to start! The engine was cranking but nothing after that. Tried multiple times.

The car just had close to ~100 km in the ODO.

https://youtu.be/w2uHmkpoZFs

• I suspected spark plugs, sensors but wasn't sure. Did wait for close to 15 mins to let the engine cool down but again no luck.
• There were no warning/indicators suggesting anything wrong with the car

Finally, called the SA in Honda and he was quick to respond. He patched me with the Service Team, they tried to troubleshoot the issue with me over a video call, and when it didn't help they sent a Honda mechanic to my location. The mechanic also was not able to identify the issue on the spot.

He suspected that the fuel pressure may be a bit off. He did unplug the line and directed it to an empty bottle to check the pressure, we did tried cranking the engine again and the fuel did came out but he wasn't able to conclude if it was the pressure issue.

Again, when nothing worked, sadly I had to call for the towing service.

When the mechanic was about to leave, he realized he had some fuel he took out of my car in a bottle. He opened the fuel lid and poured it back into the fuel tank.

Interestingly, while I was waiting for the towing to arrive, I decided to give it another try, and voila! the car started!

I have a theory (I may be completely off) that for some reason, there was a vacuum built up maybe because of which the fuel line pressure was off. Opening the fuel lid did the trick, maybe?

I drove the car directly to Honda Service and as it was late evening already had to leave my car there so that they could run a full diagnostics and identify the problem (if any). They are suspecting a faulty fuel pump!

Will get to know the outcome tomorrow, I wanted to reach out to the community to get any pointers on this? Has anyone faced a similar issue?
If Honda decides to replace the fuel pump or any other part in the brand new car, should I go ahead?

[arpirocks]

Originally Posted by arpirocks

The latest incident with Honda City 2020 CVT (Petrol)

I have incorrected uploaded the video without sound. Here's the correct one

https://youtu.be/x0z7MdHbHDs

MODS - I am not able to edit my original post, therefore updating the link in reply.

[ChoosetoCruze]

Originally Posted by arpirocks

If Honda decides to replace the fuel pump or any other part in the brand new car, should I go ahead?[/b]

IF it’s indeed the fuel pump, don’t get conned into paying for the part yourself (they may start throwing out silly reasons like bad fuel, etc).

I’m not sure if you’re aware, but in June 2020, Honda issued a recall for the fuel pump on a range of vehicles which included the City & my 2018 Jazz CVT - https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/india...fuel-pump.html (Honda India recalls 7 models over a faulty fuel pump)

Ask them about it and if faulty, get it replaced under recall/warranty.

I’m curious to learn about the cause of your troubles since it’s a brand new Honda!

[arpirocks]

Quick Update:

Honda service center kept the car for a couple of days - they ran a complete diagnostic on the car and couldn't find any issue or a faulty part.
I was told by the service center that the diagnostics results and car details have been forwarded to the technical team @Honda Cars and they have also reviewed and given a Go-Ahead for delivering the car back to me.

At this point in time, the car is back. There are no starting problems as of now but I am very much confused and surprised by this whole incident.

I have been given assurance that this type of issue should occur again in the car but I have my doubts (maybe service centre did fixed something and not disclosing?)

[ChoosetoCruze]

Originally Posted by Jeroen

Stranger things have happened

Originally Posted by vigsom

Here are a few things to be checked

Originally Posted by arpirocks

Honda service center kept the car for a couple of days - they ran a complete diagnostic on the car and couldn't find any issue or a faulty part.

At this point in time, the car is back. There are no starting problems as of now but I am very much confused and surprised by this whole incident.

I have been given assurance that this type of issue should occur again in the car but I have my doubts (maybe service centre did fixed something and not disclosing?)

It may have been a loose electrical connection to the fuel pump? Have you recently driven through any waterlogged streets?

Honda is usually one of the better OEMs and is quite responsive to customer complaints & issues.

Stranger things have happened, but it’s time to bring in the big guns to help explain what might have been the cause of the problem.

[Jeroen]

Originally Posted by arpirocks

At this point in time, the car is back. There are no starting problems as of now but I am very much confused and surprised by this whole incident.

I have been given assurance that this type of issue should occur again in the car but I have my doubts (maybe service centre did fixed something and not disclosing?)

I know, if something like this happens and you don’t really know what caused it, is likely to leave you uncomfortable.

The problem with intermittent faults is that they are really, really difficult to find. Intermittent faults tend to be electrical, not mechanical. Your car not starting at the time is more likely to be relais not working properly, some dirt on some contacts or something like that. In order for a modern car to start, several electrical relais need to click in, some sensors come into play (e.g. crankshaft/camshaft sensor) etc.

You might or might not get an error code. When mechanics start working on these sort of problems they will disconnect several components, pull connectors, relays and push them back on. Sometimes that is sufficient to clean whatever bit of dirt got in the way so to speak. But almost impossible to draw any concrete conclussion from what the ultimate cause was.

That is very unfortunate and not very satisfactory for you as the owner. It will leave a nagging doubt in your mind. But sometimes this is what it is.

One more thing you could do; Ask for the document/correspondence with the technical team at Honda. If you manage to get hold of it, please share. Lets see what they looked at, what they tested, what they did. If anything it will show the extend of their efforts.

Good luck

Jeroen

[arpirocks]

Originally Posted by ChoosetoCruze

It may have been a loose electrical connection to the fuel pump? Have you recently driven through any waterlogged streets?

Nope. All of the ~100 km were driven on the highways and nowhere near any waterlogged place. The car is itself parked in a basement parking so no play of rains as well.

Originally Posted by Jeroen

You might or might not get an error code. When mechanics start working on these sort of problems they will disconnect several components, pull connectors, relays and push them back on. Sometimes that is sufficient to clean whatever bit of dirt got in the way so to speak. But almost impossible to draw any concrete conclussion from what the ultimate cause was.

Yes, this looks like more of a plausible cause. Maybe there was a loose connector or dirt which got cleaned. Let's see hopefully the issue doesn't reoccur again

Originally Posted by Jeroen

One more thing you could do; Ask for the document/correspondence with the technical team at Honda. If you manage to get hold of it, please share. Lets see what they looked at, what they tested, what they did. If anything it will show the extend of their efforts.

This is the report I got from Honda.



To Summarise in Honda's words:

technical SR was raised for the vehicle "vehicle cranking but not starting"... As per HCIL technical team guide line through check up has been carried out ...fuel pump motor voltage ..fuel flow & fuel condition has been checked ...no DTC found during scanning & no DTC code has been registered... vehicle driven 40km to identify problem but no problem observed. As be HCIL technical team vehicle to be delivered to customer under observation.

[balenoed_]

Then probably your vaccum/air lock theory may be the reason. Either the fuel line removal or lid opening helped. Not sure how technically correct that is, but sometimes.. yeah! Strange, a brand new car having such issues.

[srvm]

Yesterday, I drove to a fuel pump to fill up my tank. Switched off the engine while filling her up. Car refused to start after that. Battery was replaced just 6 months ago. So dead/bad/old battery was ruled out. Fuel pump attendants helped push start the vehicle after that.
Switched off car again after sometime (could not avoid). Yet again car did not start/crank after that. Found that the fuse (20 Amp) for Starter Solenoid was blown off. Replaced with spare fuse (twice) & tried cranking again and both times the fuse blew off. Again push started the car with help of strangers and drove to service center without switching-off the engine en-route. The service center identified the problem as faulty Starter Motor (Part cost Rs.7000 approx).

The opening posts in this thread do mention about starter motor problems.
My queries to experienced forum members:
1. Is it normal for the starter solenoid fuse to blow off if the motor is faulty?
2. What is the typical longevity/life of a starter motor? My car is 4 years and 8 months old with 43500km in the ODO.
3. How do I avoid this again? I was about to hit the highway for a trip when this happened. I don't want to encounter this again when on a highway. Any Do's / Don'ts to keep the starter motor in good shape? Or is it possible to diagnose this problem at an earlier stage through preventive checks?

Thanks in advance.

[ChoosetoCruze]

Originally Posted by srvm

1. Is it normal for the starter solenoid fuse to blow off if the motor is faulty?
2. What is the typical longevity/life of a starter motor? My car is 4 years and 8 months old with 43500km in the ODO.
3. How do I avoid this again? I was about to hit the highway for a trip when this happened. I don't want to encounter this again when on a highway. Any Do's / Don'ts to keep the starter motor in good shape? Or is it possible to diagnose this problem at an earlier stage through preventive checks?

Which car is this? And have you owned & used it since it was brand new?

1. It really depends on the nature of the failure mode.
2. Again, depends on the quality of the part and the driving habits of the user. Do you switch off & start the engine at traffic lights? Does the car have an idle stop/start system installed?
3. Avoid unnecessarily starting/stopping the engine and don’t keep cranking the engine continuously if the car won’t start. That severely affects the life of the starter solenoid. At most, crank for 5 seconds. If you need to crank the engine consecutively, wait 1-2 mins between multiple start attempts to let the starter cool down.

Personally, I’ve not yet had to change a starter in any of our cars, and my oldest one running is 10yrs old & run 170,000kms.

On an unrelated note, a particular fuse blowing consecutively (on any electrical system) is a MAJOR red flag and you should get the issue diagnosed immediately.

[srvm]

Originally Posted by ChoosetoCruze

Which car is this? And have you owned & used it since it was brand new?

1. It really depends on the nature of the failure mode.
2. Again, depends on the quality of the part and the driving habits of the user. Do you switch off & start the engine at traffic lights? Does the car have an idle stop/start system installed?
3. Avoid unnecessarily starting/stopping the engine and don’t keep cranking the engine continuously if the car won’t start. That severely affects the life of the starter solenoid. At most, crank for 5 seconds. If you need to crank the engine consecutively, wait 1-2 mins between multiple start attempts to let the starter cool down.

Personally, I’ve not yet had to change a starter in any of our cars, and my oldest one running is 10yrs old & run 170,000kms.

On an unrelated note, a particular fuse blowing consecutively (on any electrical system) is a MAJOR red flag and you should get the issue diagnosed immediately.

Thanks for your inputs. My car is Zest Petrol. I'm the first and only owner so far.
Car doesn't have idle stop/start system. I do not switch off car at traffic lights. TASS is closed for 2 days Dasara holidays. I will check with them on Tuesday.