Hyundai Elantra - Turbo woes

venky80 · 8th October 2012, 08:56

HI experts and gurus at team bhp,

I need your help and guidance to have my issue rectified.
I am Venky I reside in Bangalore and I work for an IT company.
I own an Elantra CRDi which I bought recently (run 70000+ kms).
One day while I was driving on the nice road I unexpectedly see the engine check light and after that my vehicle was stalling on a top end of 120 though it had the capability of making a 170.(The engine heat was just below the half mark)
When I took it to Hyundai they connected the ECU equipment and found there was an issue with the cam sensor but after the reset the light seems to be gone still I see there were issues with power. (Ex- if I downshift the gear I would not get the required power but no smoke coming out but just lacks power).
Also another issue here is I been observing a lot of black smoke coming out, I took it to the Hyundai guys to find that this might be an issue with turbo. (Have also tried the fuel injector cleaner liquid with no luck. I have used shell for the fuel too).
And according to them the turbo itself is like 70K which they won’t assure if the problem might be fixed.
I think Hyundai guys are trained to handle the day to day issues but not complex issue the mx thing they do is replace the parts totally and are bad in isolation of the issue.
Some observations.
See a lot of black smoke when upshift and throttling.
I don’t see any issue with startup all is well.
To add on I have an issue with the steering as it makes a weird sound while turning. (I can live with this).

I love this car and want to retain this but I need pointers regarding a good mechanic with the right knowledge to handle this,
Guys please point me in the right direction. Thanks to all in advance.

ajmat · 8th October 2012, 09:41

Black smoke = unburnt fuel

Check injector pump timing and injectors

Maybe your air filter is blocked

Blue smoke could be turbo seals

venky80 · 8th October 2012, 10:12

Ajmat,
I have got this done still I see the black smoke.
But can't isolate power drop issue !!
Thank you for the pointers.

I am in search of a right mechanic in bangalore.
can somebody help !

SS-Traveller · 8th October 2012, 10:16

Black smoke on accelerating could also be because of a faulty EGR valve, apart from what ajmat has mentioned. None of these would cause problems when starting.

Check if you are losing engine oil, and if there is a film of oil in the intake manifold.

brraj · 8th October 2012, 10:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by venky80

I am in search of a right mechanic in bangalore.
can somebody help !

Why dont you check with Tdiracing.net (sujay/kiran) to check out if really a turbo is blown or not. Usually it will be a hose pipe leak.

Turbo failing at 70k kms is impossible if maintained well.

Is your elantra a 1st/2nd hand vehicle?

Steeroid · 8th October 2012, 10:42

Dont bother taking an Elantra out to an independent workshop/garage - the Hyundai guys know it best and in any case spares (if any) have to come from them.

Have the guys from Hyundai told you that there is a turbo issue, or is it something you feel? Is this your first diesel vehicle by any chance?

There are plenty of Elantra owners based in Bangalore, get in touch with them and they will be more than willing to help out.

CRDIsamir · 8th October 2012, 10:48

+ 1 to what SS has said. Ask the Hyundai techinician to open and clean the EGR valve. Also open up the silencer pipe and have the CAT CON cleaned. Usually these two components are never touched. All the times you clean the airfilter, you change the airfilter. This takes care of the Air Intake. What about EXHALE ? No one bothers to think of this. If the EGR valve is stuck up it does not function properly mixing the exhaust gases with the fresh air inside the engine cylender when it is not required to. This causes loss of power and givees black smoke. Alsothe Catalytic Convertor gets jammed over a period of time resulting in thick black smoke along with carbon particles.

By the way have you observed black impression on the wall if you happen to race the engine near a wall or on ground ? If so then your CAT CON is jammed and merely cleaning it along with the EGR will solve the prioblem.

These are the basic things you have to look out for before going in for major components like the turbo,the FIP or the Injectors.

Regards

Samir

venky80 · 8th October 2012, 13:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by SS-Traveller

Black smoke on accelerating could also be because of a faulty EGR valve, apart from what ajmat has mentioned. None of these would cause problems when starting.

Check if you are losing engine oil, and if there is a film of oil in the intake manifold.

@SS-Traveller - I heard him mentioning something about the EGR but nevertheless i don’t whether he has done it though. Also found oil leak was also reported by the Hyundai guys.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SS-Traveller

Black smoke on accelerating could also be because of a faulty EGR valve, apart from what ajmat has mentioned. None of these would cause problems when starting.

Check if you are losing engine oil, and if there is a film of oil in the intake manifold.

Quote:

Originally Posted by brraj

Why dont you check with Tdiracing.net (sujay/kiran) to check out if really a turbo is blown or not. Usually it will be a hose pipe leak.

Turbo failing at 70k kms is impossible if maintained well.

Is your elantra a 1st/2nd hand vehicle?

@ brraj Yup will need to check with them found their site very impressive. I am the second owner!

I have this by experience but these guys are not diagnosing the right cause.He told me that if turbo is replaced the engine needs to be reworked today!!!!

Have a bad experience with them. (Once I gave the car to have the hand brake cable fitted they broke the complete plastic assembly. Next time I asked him to test ride the car for my pickup drop issue, this guy bangs it to a hump and I had my suspension bush replaced as oil started leaking. Am very unhappy with them and I feel they are a bunch of amateurs.)

Hyundai say it’s a turbo issue but I don’t feel so !

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steeroid

Dont bother taking an Elantra out to an independent workshop/garage - the Hyundai guys know it best and in any case spares (if any) have to come from them.

Have the guys from Hyundai told you that there is a turbo issue, or is it something you feel? Is this your first diesel vehicle by any chance?

There are plenty of Elantra owners based in Bangalore, get in touch with them and they will be more than willing to help out.

@ Steeroid I have this by experience but these guys are not diagnosing the right cause.He told me that if turbo is replaced the engine needs to be reworked today!!!!

Have a bad experience with them. (Once I gave the car to have the hand brake cable fitted they broke the complete plastic assembly. Next time I asked him to test ride the car for my pickup drop issue, this guy bangs it to a hump and I had my suspension bush replaced as oil started leaking. Am very unhappy with them and I feel they are a bunch of amateurs.)

Hyundai say it’s a turbo issue but I don’t feel so

Quote:

Originally Posted by CRDIsamir

+ 1 to what SS has said. Ask the Hyundai techinician to open and clean the EGR valve. Also open up the silencer pipe and have the CAT CON cleaned. Usually these two components are never touched. All the times you clean the airfilter, you change the airfilter. This takes care of the Air Intake. What about EXHALE ? No one bothers to think of this. If the EGR valve is stuck up it does not function properly mixing the exhaust gases with the fresh air inside the engine cylender when it is not required to. This causes loss of power and givees black smoke. Alsothe Catalytic Convertor gets jammed over a period of time resulting in thick black smoke along with carbon particles.

By the way have you observed black impression on the wall if you happen to race the engine near a wall or on ground ? If so then your CAT CON is jammed and merely cleaning it along with the EGR will solve the prioblem.

These are the basic things you have to look out for before going in for major components like the turbo,the FIP or the Injectors.

Regards

Samir

@Samir - Got of call with Hyundai guys he says he had everything cleaned also tried valve from another car.
But has not cleaned the CAT CON and says they are not allowed to clean it with water as a procedure. Can you give me more pointers and is this the reason for the power drop!

brraj · 8th October 2012, 14:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by venky80

He told me that if turbo is replaced the engine needs to be reworked today!!!!

And finally asking to replace engine

.

Usually they know to only replace parts with predictions and they don't even give guarantee on that as-well.

NOTE - As you are a second owner check the service history in hyundai showrooms as-well for meter tampering, any major work done apart from regular service.

CRDIsamir · 8th October 2012, 15:02

Catalytic Convertor is made up of a kind of ceramic material. It is used to absorb environmentaly harmful gases in the exhaust. The construction is tubular. The engines fitted with CAT CON have to be on Low Sulphur Diet which is available only in the metro cities. So if the vehicle is used more out of the metro cities it is bound to have been running more on regular Diesel which causes to jam the minute pors of the CAT early.

I have attached a photo of the material inside the CAT CON for your referance you can yourself see how minute the pores are and how easily they can get clogged. Needless to say if these get clogged then the exhaust gases cannot pass easily reulting in loss of power adn black smoke as these carbon particles are forced out of the tail pipe.

Just check the tail pipe of your exhaust if it has a layer of black carbon powder. Scrape the pipe with a key and you may notice a thin layer of carbon powder coming off.

This catalytic convertor is located just after the Turbo Charger. The solution for this is to fully open up the exhaust system which generally consists of 2 - 3 mufflers including the CAT CON. Wash all of them thoroughly under pressure usually at a servicing centre and get it fitted. One more way is to remove the ceramic material completely from the CAT and refit all the mufflers after thoroughly washing them and cleaning all the carbon deposit. This will open up your exhaust system and the car will feel very free to drive.

kutlee · 8th October 2012, 16:48

check with Binz on the forum. He also has elantra crdi and might help you with independent garage. You can consult some independent garage in Blore. Not necesarily should get repairs done but some diagnostics might help.

venky80 · 9th October 2012, 00:40

Guys,
I got this from a service two days ago and i already see the oil leak.
Any pointers around !

venky80 · 10th October 2012, 18:55

Guys,
Spoke to Kiran from Tdiracing.net will be taking my car on Saturday.
will keep you posted on the same.
thank you all for the inputs.

amit1234singla · 12th October 2012, 12:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by CRDIsamir

One more way is to remove the ceramic material completely from the CAT and refit all the mufflers after thoroughly washing them and cleaning all the carbon deposit. This will open up your exhaust system and the car will feel very free to drive.

Hi CRDIsamir - could you please tell if there is any side effect of this, other than higher emissions. There are no electronics involved here so no 'Check Engine Light' etc I would think. However any other downside, for long term usage w/o cat con?

PS - I am not thinking of removing cat con from my car but just curious.

Thanks in advance.

CRDIsamir · 12th October 2012, 15:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by amit1234singla

Hi CRDIsamir - could you please tell if there is any side effect of this, other than higher emissions. There are no electronics involved here so no 'Check Engine Light' etc I would think. However any other downside, for long term usage w/o cat con?

PS - I am not thinking of removing cat con from my car but just curious.

Thanks in advance.

Hello Amit,

There are no side effectes if you remove the CAT CON . As you have rightly mentioned there are no sensors in it so question of Check Engine Light. There is no changein the engine noise or fuel eficiency. You remember when Cielo was first introduced in the Indian market it required UNLEADED petrol which was rarely available in Indian market at that time. Same way a diesel engine equipped with CAT CON requires ultra low sulphur diesel which is available only in metro citiies or tier I cities. So if you use regular diesel the CATis bound to get jammed.

Dont hasten to remove the CAT from your car unless you fell powerloss and find fine carbon powder at the tail pipe of your exhaust or get a black impression on wall or ground when you race the engine.

Regards

Samir

8th October 2012, 08:56	#1
venky80 Newbie Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: bangalore Posts: 5 Thanked: 0 Times	Hyundai Elantra - Turbo woes HI experts and gurus at team bhp, I need your help and guidance to have my issue rectified. I am Venky I reside in Bangalore and I work for an IT company. I own an Elantra CRDi which I bought recently (run 70000+ kms). One day while I was driving on the nice road I unexpectedly see the engine check light and after that my vehicle was stalling on a top end of 120 though it had the capability of making a 170.(The engine heat was just below the half mark) When I took it to Hyundai they connected the ECU equipment and found there was an issue with the cam sensor but after the reset the light seems to be gone still I see there were issues with power. (Ex- if I downshift the gear I would not get the required power but no smoke coming out but just lacks power). Also another issue here is I been observing a lot of black smoke coming out, I took it to the Hyundai guys to find that this might be an issue with turbo. (Have also tried the fuel injector cleaner liquid with no luck. I have used shell for the fuel too). And according to them the turbo itself is like 70K which they won’t assure if the problem might be fixed. I think Hyundai guys are trained to handle the day to day issues but not complex issue the mx thing they do is replace the parts totally and are bad in isolation of the issue. Some observations. See a lot of black smoke when upshift and throttling. I don’t see any issue with startup all is well. To add on I have an issue with the steering as it makes a weird sound while turning. (I can live with this). I love this car and want to retain this but I need pointers regarding a good mechanic with the right knowledge to handle this, Guys please point me in the right direction. Thanks to all in advance.
	() Thanks

8th October 2012, 09:41	#2
ajmat Team-BHP Support Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Bangalore Posts: 15,171 Thanked: 31,064 Times View My Garage	re: Hyundai Elantra - Turbo woes Black smoke = unburnt fuel Check injector pump timing and injectors Maybe your air filter is blocked Blue smoke could be turbo seals
	(2) Thanks

8th October 2012, 10:12	#3
venky80 Newbie Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: bangalore Posts: 5 Thanked: 0 Times	Ajmat, I have got this done still I see the black smoke. But can't isolate power drop issue !! Thank you for the pointers. I am in search of a right mechanic in bangalore. can somebody help !
	() Thanks

8th October 2012, 10:16	#4
SS-Traveller Distinguished - BHPian Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: New Delhi Posts: 8,276 Thanked: 28,711 Times View My Garage	re: Hyundai Elantra - Turbo woes Black smoke on accelerating could also be because of a faulty EGR valve, apart from what ajmat has mentioned. None of these would cause problems when starting. Check if you are losing engine oil, and if there is a film of oil in the intake manifold.
	(2) Thanks

8th October 2012, 10:42	#6
Steeroid Senior - BHPian Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: N.A Posts: 7,026 Thanked: 2,757 Times	re: Hyundai Elantra - Turbo woes Dont bother taking an Elantra out to an independent workshop/garage - the Hyundai guys know it best and in any case spares (if any) have to come from them. Have the guys from Hyundai told you that there is a turbo issue, or is it something you feel? Is this your first diesel vehicle by any chance? There are plenty of Elantra owners based in Bangalore, get in touch with them and they will be more than willing to help out.
	(1) Thanks

8th October 2012, 10:48	#7
CRDIsamir BHPian Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Miraj MH 10 Posts: 125 Thanked: 87 Times	re: Hyundai Elantra - Turbo woes + 1 to what SS has said. Ask the Hyundai techinician to open and clean the EGR valve. Also open up the silencer pipe and have the CAT CON cleaned. Usually these two components are never touched. All the times you clean the airfilter, you change the airfilter. This takes care of the Air Intake. What about EXHALE ? No one bothers to think of this. If the EGR valve is stuck up it does not function properly mixing the exhaust gases with the fresh air inside the engine cylender when it is not required to. This causes loss of power and givees black smoke. Alsothe Catalytic Convertor gets jammed over a period of time resulting in thick black smoke along with carbon particles. By the way have you observed black impression on the wall if you happen to race the engine near a wall or on ground ? If so then your CAT CON is jammed and merely cleaning it along with the EGR will solve the prioblem. These are the basic things you have to look out for before going in for major components like the turbo,the FIP or the Injectors. Regards Samir
	(3) Thanks

8th October 2012, 15:02	#10
CRDIsamir BHPian Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Miraj MH 10 Posts: 125 Thanked: 87 Times	re: Hyundai Elantra - Turbo woes Catalytic Convertor is made up of a kind of ceramic material. It is used to absorb environmentaly harmful gases in the exhaust. The construction is tubular. The engines fitted with CAT CON have to be on Low Sulphur Diet which is available only in the metro cities. So if the vehicle is used more out of the metro cities it is bound to have been running more on regular Diesel which causes to jam the minute pors of the CAT early. I have attached a photo of the material inside the CAT CON for your referance you can yourself see how minute the pores are and how easily they can get clogged. Needless to say if these get clogged then the exhaust gases cannot pass easily reulting in loss of power adn black smoke as these carbon particles are forced out of the tail pipe. Just check the tail pipe of your exhaust if it has a layer of black carbon powder. Scrape the pipe with a key and you may notice a thin layer of carbon powder coming off. This catalytic convertor is located just after the Turbo Charger. The solution for this is to fully open up the exhaust system which generally consists of 2 - 3 mufflers including the CAT CON. Wash all of them thoroughly under pressure usually at a servicing centre and get it fitted. One more way is to remove the ceramic material completely from the CAT and refit all the mufflers after thoroughly washing them and cleaning all the carbon deposit. This will open up your exhaust system and the car will feel very free to drive. Attached Thumbnails Attached Images
	(4) Thanks

8th October 2012, 16:48	#11
kutlee Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Hyderabad Posts: 1,141 Thanked: 233 Times View My Garage	Re: Hyundai Elantra - Turbo woes check with Binz on the forum. He also has elantra crdi and might help you with independent garage. You can consult some independent garage in Blore. Not necesarily should get repairs done but some diagnostics might help.
	(1) Thanks

9th October 2012, 00:40	#12
venky80 Newbie Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: bangalore Posts: 5 Thanked: 0 Times	Re: Hyundai Elantra - Turbo woes Guys, I got this from a service two days ago and i already see the oil leak. Any pointers around ! Attached Thumbnails
	() Thanks

10th October 2012, 18:55	#13
venky80 Newbie Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: bangalore Posts: 5 Thanked: 0 Times	Re: Hyundai Elantra - Turbo woes Guys, Spoke to Kiran from Tdiracing.net will be taking my car on Saturday. will keep you posted on the same. thank you all for the inputs.
	() Thanks