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News off the Web:


Tesla behind lobbying push to ditch side mirrors

The electric car manufacturer has teamed up with the 12-member Alliance of Automobile Manufacturers lobbying group (which represents major companies like General Motors, Toyota and Volkswagen) and filed a petition on Monday asking NHTSA for permission to replace sideview mirrors with cameras.

Currently, side mirrors are required on cars in the US, and they can't legally be replaced by camera technologies filling a similar role. The petitioners' chief argument is that sideview mirrors add drag and decrease fuel economy.

According to Automotive News, Tesla founder Elon Musk has been lobbying for laws that allow automakers to use sideview camera systems exclusively for the last two years, but claims it's nearly impossible for a single person to change the regulations.

Sideview cameras have been on concept cars for decades, but augmenting external visibility with cameras and sensors has been a growing trend in production automotive technology over the last five years or so. Nissan uses its Around View Monitor to supplement mirrors with a bird's eye composite view of the vehicle during tight maneuvers, and the LaneWatch system from Honda displays a rear-facing passenger-side view to eliminate blind spots during lane changes.

Tesla's early Model X concept had small pods on the side with cameras mounted in them, but more recent versions have switched to conventional mirrors.

Regulations tend to move slowly within NHTSA – it delayed passing the backup camera standard five times since 2011.

[zenren]

Replacing driver side mirror with camera would be a definite safety hazard.

In any part of the world, a turn to the drivers side (right turn in India/left turn in US) involves cutting across the overtaking lane. In case of mirror, we see the objects in the side mirror which is in the line of sight towards where we are headed. If it is a side camera with dash mounted display, you won't see the cars coming from behind unless you look in the opposite direction to where you are headed. This could potentially lead to a lot of accidents.

[alpha1]

I had a question which may be considered offtopic but extremely pertinent to the rear view issue.

Why don't manufacturers make PROGRESSIVELY CONVEX mirrors?
Which means the coverage angle will be very high (hence no blind spots) ... at the same time the distortion of the image near the car would be quite low and thus can be used for parking.

[dutta_d1]

All I can say is "duh". What is so hi-tech about a webcam/monitor setup for replacing the ORVMs?

Instead, I would like to see a camera mounted at the top of the car, another one at the bottom, maybe one on the left bottom to see the blind spots or use in parking close to the curb. Much like the super expensive SUVs. Don't understand why they are not being put in our Indian SUVs by the manufacturers. Surely the cost can't be that high.

Another option is that there should be IR/Thermal cameras that can see animals/cyclists during night time. That would be a boon.

[myavu]

Cameras to replace rearview mirrors in future!

This was in my mind for many years and yet wondered why no manufactures are not trying it till date.

The bulky protruding ORVMs are always a nuisance to maintain in crowded traffic.

If no electric folding and adjusting provided it is always a pain.

A broken ORVM will cost a bomb wrt to manufactures and models.

These days many manufactures are providing reverse cameras as standard. I would like to have cameras at the front corners/fender region to safely drive clear off other cars and low-lying curbs. This is a must for cars which has lower seating position or with high dash and window panes.

The cameras for RVMs may push the overall cost of the car a bit north, but after reading the following article it has lots of advantages wrt to cost.

http://www.cnet.com/news/6-reasons-w...tag=CAD1acfa04

• Better fuel economy
• Bye bye to wind noise
• Improved visibility
• No more high beam glare
• Better looking cars

But can manufactures provide a clean and dirt free camera to replace the traditional RVMs?

If so, do we need a mirror IRVM to compensate if the camera hardware go kaput?

Guys, what's your take on this?

Cheers!

Vinu

[KiloAlpha]

Camera+screen is a piece of technology. No matter how reliable it is, it is never 100% reliable. A mirror is always 100% reliable, as long as it exists and you look at it!! Driving around with broken mirrors is an offence in many countries.

So no, I don't think this is about to happen any time soon. We have a long way to go yet.

See http://www.wired.com/2014/04/tesla-a...iance-mirrors/

[ecenandu]

BMW has show cased a camera system concept for sideview mirror at CES 2016, LasVegas.

BMW brought a prototype side view camera system to the Consumer Electronics Show, mounted on an i8 plug-in hybrid sports coupe. The cameras are still mounted on stalks attached to the doors, but are slimmer and more aerodynamic that standard side view mirrors. The company says they lower drag 3%, which increases range by 1%. Range is the Holy Grail of plug-in hybrid and electric cars. Tesla wanted to use side view cameras on its new Model X, but federal regulations prohibit their use, at least for now.



The system uses four cameras, one on each of the doors and two mounted to look out through the glass in the car’s rear hatch. Inside, BMW has substituted a video screen for the usual rear view mirror. When backing up, the display shows a view directly behind plus a separate view off to each side so the driver can see potential dangers like phone poles or pedestrians.

Once the car begins moving forward, the input from all four cameras is digitally merged so the driver sees a panoramic view of the world behind the car. C/Net contributor Wayne Cunningham got a ride in the camera equipped car at CES and reports, “The imagery was bright and clear, much more informative than what I usually see in side and rear view mirrors.” Rain dampened part of his test drive, but the camera system continued to give him a clear view behind. Ordinarily, a traditional side view mirror would be obscured by rain drops. The cameras are heated to melt ice and snow.

BMW is advocating with regulators in the US and Europe for permission to use the system on production cars. No doubt Tesla and other companies are weighing in as well. If Tesla can use cameras as part of its Autopilot system, which can be used to actually steer the car while in motion, its seems silly that cameras can’t be used to give drivers a better idea of potential dangers while driving. The BMW system includes a notification warning if a vehicle is detected moving up quickly from behind and making it dangerous to change lanes.

BMW is hoping to gain approval to use the camera system soon. Once permission is received, it can begin replacing side view mirrors as soon as possible. Other car makers are anxious to follow suit.

"

No more blind spots, glance at one mirror alone will do it.

Source

[TheStranger]

This concept is about a year old. The camera concept is to project a complete view of the rear of the vehicle with a wide-angle including the sides as well. Such camera systems are already available on e-tailers.

Do see the links below :

http://www.amazon.com/BOYO-VTB123HD-...6SF69B0http://

Currently Virginia Polytechnic Institute is conducting research to determine the optimal location of side-view cameras in trucks, which are notorious for having huge blind spots. The article is linked below. It also includes a nice discussion on the pros and cons of the system concerned, regarding the human factor involved.

http://spectrum.ieee.org/cars-that-t...t-says-experts

[ecenandu]

Originally Posted by TheStranger

http://www.amazon.com/BOYO-VTB123HD-.../dp/B006SF69B0

There was an issue with the link you posted, I corrected the error.

Yes the concept is not that new, but stitching different video feeds to form a one video feed is unique. So far, we have seen this technology used mainly for reversing cameras. The new 7 series got good variety of different views.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X98C1CopnFU&t=6m5s

See from 6:05 minutes

[blackwasp]

Yup, exactly! I was trying to explain a similar system in the reverse camera or sensor thread, but couldn't explain properly.
Also, as with all tech, shouldn't there be some sort of fail safe? Maybe a mirror on each side that pops up?

OT- the newer NMMT Volvo buses have a camera for rear (IVRM) view, the display is inverted, so it looks like a mirror. Drivers say it helps in traffic and parking.

[TheStranger]

Digging around, I came upon this site.

http://shop.reversingcamerasuk.com/S...monitor-MON123

AFAIK, it shows two camera views at a time, in split-screen mode and it can also be setup to show three images at a time (again in split-screen mode) - from Left side view cam, Right side view cam and Reverse Cam as well (please check the fourth image on that page). I am not sure if the third image is a combined image from all three camera sources.However, the size of the display is a major issue. It may be a adaptable if a dash-mount can be engineered for it.

Wish you all the best for a DIY and do post your results.

[Bookkeeper]

As petrolheads we all understand the key role that side mirrors play in our lives. Every single time we get on our bikes or slide into the driver's seat, we ensure that our mirrors are adjusted properly to our liking and that we have a proper field of vision.

It's hard to even imagine a road going car without side mirrors. Without them, at least to me a car would look incomplete.

However, it seems side mirrors will also see the same fate as a manual on a Ferrari or a Porsche. Maybe not now but probably in a not so distant future.

This article on Forbes talks about the future demise of side mirrors. Might just be worth giving a look.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/dougnewc...9#13784fae23e1

[cbatrody]

I guess this is mainly aimed at reducing the drag which in turn improves the fuel economy & reduce noise. This is something similar to which Honda has already implemented in its cars wherein you can see the complete view of the passenger side on the dashboard monitor the moment you turn the indicator on to change the lane. This is extremely useful in changing lanes in highways, of course when the lane discipline & traffic rules are followed

[Ramon]

One disadvantage that I foresee is that being a camera and screen setup, the display screen will switch off when the car is switched off. Can't check if the road is clear to open the door.

[VW2010]

One disadvantage that I foresee is that being a camera and screen setup, the display screen will switch off when the car is switched off. Can't check if the road is clear to open the door.

I would not worry about it. Like coming home or leaving home lights these can be configured long after keys have been removed.

I expect to see a much better surveillance around car coming in the age forward presenting the driver a realistic 360deg view of car as if shot from a helicopter to aid in multiple things including parking etc.

I cannot drive without a rear view mirror or side mirros. They are supremely required equipment for me though