[s_a_u_r_a_b_h]

Originally Posted by chaudh2s

In 1983 maruti came along and with it, came a paradigm change in the reliability quotient of automobiles in India.
People slowly got used to reliable fuss free cars (fill it shut it forget it types) as the marutis were super reliable.

That's not true. You are giving far more credit to Maruti than it deserves. In those times, people bought Maruti because there weren't many options in that category. Maruti has its own share of reliability issues, its just that its superb dealership/ASC network and parts availability/pricing make the pain a lot lesser.

Originally Posted by chaudh2s

a lot of first time car buyers are buying these unreliable cars and are projecting to the world, that it's OKAY for an automobile to be a little bit (as per them) unreliable and that's how it works. This is a totally unacceptable.

That isn't true either. Majority of the XUV buyers on this thread are not first time buyers. They are either upward or lateral upgrades. So they know a thing or two about owning cars and what to expect from a car from a particular segment. So lets respect their judgement even if it may be un-acceptable to you.

Originally Posted by chaudh2s

An automobile can be every bit as reliable as a washing machine,

You are over-expecting. A washing machine operates in a mostly standard environment for its entire life and has only fixed/limited set of user inputs to deal with. A car on the other hand goes through a myriad of operating conditions whether its surrounding temperature, quality of fuel, various lubricants/oils, improper driving habits, speeds ranging from bumper-to-bumper city traffic to speeding highways and so on and so forth. So engineering a car to factor in so many variables can never be equated to a washing machine.That's just being too simplistic.

Originally Posted by chaudh2s

but a car whose electronics and mechanicals are so unreliable, how can you be sure that parts such as airbags, ESP, etc which donot come into action in a day to day scenario would work, when you would need them most?

I agree with you here. Mahindra still has to work a lot on the reliability(particularly long term) of it's cars and safety has to be at the top of the list. However, I don't have any data -one way or the other -to say whether safety features like ABS, ESP, Airbag etc. have deserted people when they are needed.

Originally Posted by chaudh2s

I have got my hands burnt on a fiat (fell for it's looks and solid build rant by fellow BHPians), have now sold it.

You give me the impression that you had a really bad experience with your Fiat and that has affected you so much that you've started painting all Fiat/Mahindra/Tata cars with the same brush. While it's true that one bad experience can leave a really bad taste in one's mouth, we shouldn't generalise things and make sweeping statements.

[debuda]

Originally Posted by chaudh2s

In 1983 maruti came along and with it, came a paradigm change in the reliability quotient of automobiles in India.

Originally Posted by s_a_u_r_a_b_h

That's not true. You are giving far more credit to Maruti than it deserves. In those times, people bought Maruti because there weren't many options in that category.

I am surprised that s_a_u_r_a_b_h has chosen to refute the perfectly correct statement of chaudh2s that Maruti brought about a quantum jump in the reliability quotient of Indian cars. It is a well-known fact that prior to 1983 all Indian manufactured cars used to belong to the Jurassic age. Indian car makers were milking half-century old designs decade after decade without incorporating any technological improvements and merely making some cosmetic changes (like shape of the front grill!) once in a blue moon. Even the car shapes were not changed in order to keep using the same old dies.

The launch of the M-800 in 1983 is arguably the most historically significant event in the Indian car industry. Maruti brought to India new technology (advanced twin barrel carburetor, transverse mounted engine, crumple zones, front wheel drive, front axles with CV joints, pressurized radiator with coolant, thermostatically operated motor driven radiator fan, spot welded monocoque body, independent suspension, synchromesh gears, etc, etc.) and modern methods of manufacture which resulted in a product that was far more reliable, safe and fuel efficient as compared to the old dinosaurs.

Furthermore, Maruti introduced modern concepts in preventive maintenance (servicing) and their service centres were not only equipped with modern diagnostic tools and other facilities, they brought about a new work culture as well. All in all, Maruti brought about a revolution in the Indian car market that had been long overdue.

[Jred]

Well adding my share.

Which in your opinion is that one car which is

1. Completely niggle free
2. Extremely reliable
3. Has safety features that can at the least match competition and obviously save lives
4. Has fantastic After sales
5. Is stylish
6. Need less to say fits ones budget
7. Fantastic drivability

This could very well be a partial list, I am very sure there ought to be a lot more.

Is there any car that fits all these? I would have to say a very resounding No.

So what does one buyer do? You tend to compromise on stuff you believe you can live with. You buy the best possible option that you felt at the time and stick with it.

You find out there are faults, there are niggles and flaws you didn't anticipate while buying you either crib or defend or get rid off the problem or the car itself. These are choices we have.

Don't got me wrong with the above statement. I would definitely agree we should never settle for a substandard product.
I also don't think we are portraying anything untrue or claiming anything that's below par to be superior. When we say we are happy with our car. May be we haven't faced the niggles hence feel its OK.


From another context, I also believe it is important for us to also note that despite the flaws how the manufacturer picks up and corrects the flaws/niggles.

Well, should MM had to test the vehicle better for electronics, mechanicals and all? YES

Would I buy another MM vehicle? Not sure at the moment.

[s_a_u_r_a_b_h]

Originally Posted by debuda

I am surprised that s_a_u_r_a_b_h has chosen to refute the perfectly correct statement of chaudh2s that Maruti brought about a quantum jump in the reliability quotient of Indian cars. It is a well-known fact that prior to 1983 all Indian manufactured cars used to belong to the Jurassic age. Indian car makers were milking half-century old designs decade after decade without incorporating any technological improvements and merely making some cosmetic changes (like shape of the front grill!) once in a blue moon. Even the car shapes were not changed in order to keep using the same old dies.

debuda, I am not disputing the fact that Maruti brought a revolution in Indian car industry. Nor am I denying that they've changed the way cars are serviced/maintained. All I was trying to say is that Maruti is not a holy grail of reliability either( has it's own share of issues) and that absence of too many options in that category for a long time is also a factor behind people buying them.

[Hrishiz]

A quick questions to the owners. The Radio starts playing as soon as I switch on the ignition, is there a way I can get to turn that off. Something similar to removing a software from the windows start up?

I mean as soon as I turn on the ignition all I hear is the RJ blabbering to the glory. Thank you, I want to say No, thank you! May be I am very lazy to go over the manual. Some how the word owner-manuals puts me off.

[Sisu]

Originally Posted by Hrishiz

A quick questions to the owners. The Radio starts playing as soon as I switch on the ignition, is there a way I can get to turn that off. Something similar to removing a software from the windows start up?

I mean as soon as I turn on the ignition all I hear is the RJ blabbering to the glory. Thank you, I want to say No, thank you! May be I am very lazy to go over the manual. Some how the word owner-manuals puts me off.

Hi Hrishi,

Keep the Infotainment power button pressed for 3-4 seconds before switching the car off. This would switch off the infotainment system and would remain off even when you switch on your ignition the next time.

Hope this helps.

And Congratulations on getting your Cheetah! Drive safe

Cheerzz

[timetraveller]

Folks,

I was reading some of the other messages about not regretting the decision to purchase a car inspite of problems. Everyone can have their perspective, and I have mine. I am convinced that Mahindra sold a lemon. I am not happy at all with the product or Mahindra's handling of the issues. Peace of mind isn't something you miss till you lose it.

My latest customer experience (and believe me there is a long list) has been that my XUV got me stuck in the middle of the Bhadra national forest with a car full of people. The problem? The timing belt tore - I mean literally torn to shreds - and my odometer reads 17+k! It was quite an experience - but thanks in large part to a random cab guy from Bangalore who stopped on his own and gave me a ride to the nearest town and back to get a cab, and my wife's Kannada, I was able to handle the situation with relative ease. I did have my wife for company, and the scenery was excellent (I do like to look at the bright side ). I got my XUV towed with a tractor for 40 clicks to reach Chikmagalur (my wife says she has a new found respect for tractors now) and had wait for a total of 5+ hours for the tow truck to arrive in Chikmagalur, since it had to come all the way from Mangalore! Only after I sent the car off to Mangalore could I go back to Bangalore. In all, I had to pay for two cabs to get back to Bangalore, and my car to be towed to Chikmagalur that day/night. [Why Mangalore, because Mahindra can handle the XUV only in Bangalore, Shimoga or Mangalore in Karnataka. And the tow trucks only come from and go to one of these locations closest to the incident. And Mangalore was the closest. God help the owners of even more 'exclusive' cars!]

What annoys me is this. Mahindra did not cover the timing belt when they first sold me the car. When I got the car back from Mangalore (I also had to pay the Mangalore dealership to deliver my car to me), I saw that the timing belt area is now covered with an aluminum cover. Why wouldn't they do that to begin with or sometime later when then find out that they should?

So what is causing the timing belt to get chewed up? There is this small 'loudspeaker' shaped speaker that emits beeps for example when you have the car door open and try to lock it. It so happens that the darned thing is mounted on a flimsy piece of metal that breaks off at some point and the speaker 'falls' into the timing belt assembly. That provides mutually assured destruction to both the speaker as well as the timing belt. The Mangalore dealership send me the mangled speaker as proof.

Whats amazing is that Mahindra likely knows that this is happening to their customers but are waiting for the customers to report a problem before they do anything about it. Why do I think so? A neighbor faced the 'timing belt' problem many months ago when I helped him push his car to the tow truck (but unfortunately we never discussed what the solution was afterwards), and less than a week after I had my 'episode', my coworker had the exact problem of his timing belt getting chewed up! What stops Mahindra from issuing a recall and just providing the cover to all customers? I have various un-parliamentary (or is that perfectly parliamentary!) invectives that I would to spew here at Mahindra but I am bound by the code of conduct rules.

Long story short, folks, open your XUV engine bay. If you see a black speaker, take the darned thing off - its not that useful. Foremost, please ask your Mahindra service station to provide that aluminum cover that they need to anyway.

On a lighter note (sorry couldn't resist), Mahindra is 'With Me, Hamesha'. Yes, literally, causing me pain every day.

Drive safe!

[SDP]

Originally Posted by timetraveller

Folks,

....My latest customer experience (and believe me there is a long list) has been that my XUV got me stuck in the middle of the Bhadra national forest with a car full of people. The problem? The timing belt tore - I mean literally torn to shreds - and my odometer reads 17+k! ....

What annoys me is this. Mahindra did not cover the timing belt when they first sold me the car. When I got the car back from Mangalore (I also had to pay the Mangalore dealership to deliver my car to me), I saw that the timing belt area is now covered with an aluminum cover. Why wouldn't they do that to begin with or sometime later when then find out that they should?

So what is causing the timing belt to get chewed up? There is this small 'loudspeaker' shaped speaker that emits beeps for example when you have the car door open and try to lock it. It so happens that the darned thing is mounted on a flimsy piece of metal that breaks off at some point and the speaker 'falls' into the timing belt assembly. That provides mutually assured destruction to both the speaker as well as the timing belt. The Mangalore dealership send me the mangled speaker as proof.
....

Sorry to hear about your ordeal. Whats the manufacturing month-year for your XUV?

As you mentioned, it is a fairly common problem with the vehicles from the first year. The part that falls is the security-alarm siren and the belt it snaps is the accessories belt. Once the belt snaps, it does bring the vehicle to its knees. Some of us saw this problem occurring in many cars (from owner's posts on this forum), connected the dots and got it fixed before the siren falls. There is a new design siren with a stronger clip and a wire-tie to secure it just in case it snaps to prevent it from falling and that prevents the problem from happening. I have not heard of a cover for the accessories/timing belt. If you can kindly share a snap of the Aluminium cover, that would be really helpful for other owners.

...Whats amazing is that Mahindra likely knows that this is happening to their customers but are waiting for the customers to report a problem before they do anything about it. Why do I think so? A neighbor faced the 'timing belt' problem many months ago when I helped him push his car to the tow truck (but unfortunately we never discussed what the solution was afterwards), and less than a week after I had my 'episode', my coworker had the exact problem of his timing belt getting chewed up! What stops Mahindra from issuing a recall and just providing the cover to all customers? I have various un-parliamentary (or is that perfectly parliamentary!) invectives that I would to spew here at Mahindra but I am bound by the code of conduct rules.
...

Bang on! A lot of owners including me have expressed the same feeling multiple times in the past. If you know there is a problem, why not issue a recall rather than waiting for that part to fail on each vehicle.

Mahindras, that's really poor way of handling parts-design issues. Shame on you. If you really have 'international' dreams, you need to move away from this "chalta hain" and "jugaad" attitude. Own up the mistakes. The customers would respect you more for doing that.

[TheIndian]

chaudh2 has a point and great to see debuda's couple of posts on it.

I can relate to a few points what chaudh2 mentioned, have seen it widespread on net too. We had a Fiat in our family and an XUV (though there is no issues in XUV till now in 6-7 months, not even the headlight bulb conk off or anything. Touchwood )

[s_a_u_r_a_b_h]

Originally Posted by timetraveller

Folks,

What annoys me is this. Mahindra did not cover the timing belt when they first sold me the car.
......There is this small 'loudspeaker' shaped speaker that emits beeps for example when you have the car door open and try to lock it. It so happens that the darned thing is mounted on a flimsy piece of metal that breaks off at some point and the speaker 'falls' into the timing belt assembly.
...... Whats amazing is that Mahindra likely knows that this is happening to their customers but are waiting for the customers to report a problem before they do anything about it.

Really sorry to hear about what you had to go through. Vehicle coming to a complete halt and refusing to start is a serious issue and everything that can lead to such a situation (whether it's clutch, timing belt or any other component) should be pro-actively identified and fixed for good by Mahindras. And if they are already aware of the issue (which looks like they are), refusing to fix it pro-actively smacks of "brush it under the carpet" approach.

Originally Posted by SDP

Sorry to hear about your ordeal. Whats the manufacturing month-year for your XUV?

As you mentioned, it is a fairly common problem with the vehicles from the first year.
... I have not heard of a cover for the accessories/timing belt. If you can kindly share a snap of the Aluminium cover, that would be really helpful for other owners.

Manufacturing month/year of your XUV will be a critical data point here. If it belongs to earlier batches (circa 2011,2012) and no one else has reported it in last 6 months or so, then perhaps we can give M&M some leeway but if your vehicle is relatively new, they deserve a rap on their knuckles. By the way, how much did you have to pay to the Mahindra service center (Mangalore and Bangalore) for this whole exercise?

[timetraveller]

Originally Posted by s_a_u_r_a_b_h

Manufacturing month/year of your XUV will be a critical data point here. If it belongs to earlier batches (circa 2011,2012) and no one else has reported it in last 6 months or so, then perhaps we can give M&M some leeway but if your vehicle is relatively new, they deserve a rap on their knuckles. By the way, how much did you have to pay to the Mahindra service center (Mangalore and Bangalore) for this whole exercise?

Thanks for the thoughts s a u r a b h.

The year of purchase is irrelevant. Why is it ok for any manufacturer to use their customer for field tests? I disagree with the notion of any leeway at all. Why should there be any leeway? Do we not pay the sticker price that *they* set? My car was brand new at one point, and its not like I didn't have other problems when it was 'newer'. These are not problems because of wear and tear. [ Tear yes since the timing belt got shredded, but no wear. I had 17k on the odo when this happened]. Bottom line is that yes I got suckered into buying an XUV when I had other options. Yes, shame on me. However, shame on Mahindra for building a lemon. Shame on them for handling the many issues that are in no way 'isolated' or 'one off'. They need to be sued en-masse by all XUV owners who have faced problems.

[Zappo]

Originally Posted by timetraveller

Thanks for the thoughts s a u r a b h.

The year of purchase is irrelevant. Why is it ok for any manufacturer to use their customer for field tests? I disagree with the notion of any leeway at all. Why should there be any leeway? Do we not pay the sticker price that *they* set? My car was brand new at one point, and its not like I didn't have other problems when it was 'newer'. These are not problems because of wear and tear. [ Tear yes since the timing belt got shredded, but no wear. I had 17k on the odo when this happened]. Bottom line is that yes I got suckered into buying an XUV when I had other options. Yes, shame on me. However, shame on Mahindra for building a lemon. Shame on them for handling the many issues that are in no way 'isolated' or 'one off'. They need to be sued en-masse by all XUV owners who have faced problems.

While I understand your frustration and empathize with you the bottomline still remains that there were issues and people who bought the vehicle in the 1st batch faced many teething trouble. I guess they charged you on this one because you would have run out on the time warranty on your vehicle.

You should write to Mahindra explaining the issue. They should have done this for you as a part of goodwill warranty. The problem with most procedure driven organizations (as most are) is that unless you proactively intervene early on and raise the flag things will go its defined way. So any vehicle out of warranty gets charged. Period. Does this one also qualifies for this SOP? Probably not.

[s_a_u_r_a_b_h]

Originally Posted by timetraveller

Thanks for the thoughts s a u r a b h.

The year of purchase is irrelevant. Why is it ok for any manufacturer to use their customer for field tests? I disagree with the notion of any leeway at all. Why should there be any leeway? Do we not pay the sticker price that *they* set? My car was brand new at one point, and its not like I didn't have other problems when it was 'newer'. These are not problems because of wear and tear. [ Tear yes since the timing belt got shredded, but no wear. I had 17k on the odo when this happened]. Bottom line is that yes I got suckered into buying an XUV when I had other options. Yes, shame on me. However, shame on Mahindra for building a lemon. Shame on them for handling the many issues that are in no way 'isolated' or 'one off'. They need to be sued en-masse by all XUV owners who have faced problems.

As much as we would like to, the year of mfg. is not irrelevant. Lot of cars go through the stabilisation curve during their initial months/years before they can be called as stable or finished products. The customers who buy the vehicle during that initial period will always be more susceptible to such failures/issues. That's a hard reality of the maturing process . However, that doesn't give the manufacturers license to treat unsuspecting customers as guinea pigs and do field trials on a mass scale. They have to make distinction between what constitutes a serious failure/design flaw like the timing belt one which can compromise passenger safety and the comfort/convenience features like A/C, fancy gizmos etc. I completely agree with you that this one is not a wear&tear issue and Mahindra should do a recall and fix such issues pro-actively rather than waiting for customers to report it. By the way, your current state of mind notwithstanding, calling XUV a lemon is a bit too far fetched though probably I would have said the same thing had I suffered the way you did !!! Always easy to preach, isn't it !

[nitinralli]

So even after replacing entire headlight wiring, low beam bulb went kaput again. This time right before starting my 2000kms journey.

[SDP]

Originally Posted by nitinralli

So even after replacing entire headlight wiring, low beam bulb went kaput again. This time right before starting my 2000kms journey.

Nitin, just let it go. Some things M&M might never be able to fix.
How about getting Xenons installed on the low-beam with proper ballasts and a relay?