Wheelspins, 180s & 360s - and how they affect your car

tsreekaranrao · 11th February 2006, 18:35

What effects do WHEELSPINS,180s&360s have on the car (not the tyres)
Which cars can safely execute 180s and 360s safely.As for wheelspins i think even an amby can manage a short one...

I am sorry if i posted this thread in the wrong place please move it to the correct place

mclaren1885 · 11th February 2006, 18:49

As long as the car doesnt flip over trying these 180's or 360's u should be safe .. A safe bet would be cars which have low ground clearance .. I have tried a few 360's in my zen and alto and have felt more comfortable in the zen than the alto .. However the best that i could manage in the zen was a 330 ..

yes doing these things does affect ur cars .. Something that our experienced guys will get to in a short while ..

Coming to wheelspins most cars can do it , even my indica dls used to wheelspin like crazy .. Major problem would be to the tyres , driveshafts etc ..

tsreekaranrao · 11th February 2006, 19:07

I 1st tried 360s when i was in college in a m800 (my friend's)

i.e. the first model (1985 maybe) and each time i tried i felt i was going to flip... I used to have a fiat which would spin off the road or even worse a tyre would burst if i took corners at "HIGH SPEED"

and the car would go spinning like hell maybe more than 360.it was a great feeling until... i hit a tree in my 5th attempt(was in the hospital for a week)...
I want to try again but i am really scared to do it now

Right now i have
1)elantra crdi
2)WagonR
3)Innova diesel

In which of these cars can i manage a spin safely ???

karthik247 · 11th February 2006, 19:52

The safest car u could try these on would be ur Elantra cuz it'll b more stable than the Wagon R or the Innova. And make sure u have enough money left for the clutch, driveshaft, tyres etc...

Ram · 11th February 2006, 20:18

By 360s, I assume you mean "donuts"!

A Donut is a circle of burnt rubber made by spinning a rear wheel drive car on the spot. The car's rear-end rotates around the front wheels continuously, thereby creating circular skid marks if done right, and causing lots of tire smoke.

The trick to make a donut happen is to quickly start oversteering but not so much that you just do a sudden 180-degree spin and stop.

The only real donuts are performed with a high-powered rear-wheel-drive car. PERIOD.

People: please don't even try it with a front-wheel drive or a 4x4, without risking your life and limb, when it overturns, if you manage to lose traction, which I'm close to confident, you won't!!! The only 4x4s capable of aggressive donuts are the powerful Mitsubishi Lancer Evo, Nissan Skyline GT-R and Subaru Impreza WRX STi (impossible with the plain-vanilla Impreza).

Cars like the 4x4 Passat W8 send most of the power to the front wheels, and send some power to the rear only when loss of traction is detected, so no donut is possible.

mclaren1885 · 11th February 2006, 20:43

Yes donuts are possible only on a RWD car or powerful 4WD like the EVO'S , Skylines , etc etc .. However i think here the point in case was to do a 360 as in just 1 spin with no intention of carrying on to do continous donuts .. Am i right ??

Of the list that u have mentioned , i think the elantras the safest provided u dont mind ruining ur driveshafts , tyres , clutch , hand brake assembly etc ..

Ram · 11th February 2006, 21:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by mclaren1885

Yes donuts are possible only on a RWD car or powerful 4WD like the EVO'S , Skylines , etc etc .. However i think here the point in case was to do a 360 as in just 1 spin with no intention of carrying on to do continous donuts .. Am i right ??

Of the list that u have mentioned , i think the elantras the safest provided u dont mind ruining ur driveshafts , tyres , clutch , hand brake assembly etc ..

mclaren1885: Gimme a break here, are we kiddin' or are we kiddin'?
I posit that the Hyundai Elantra cannot do a spin at all, as it is a front-wheel-drive car. How can you spin a car's butt around at all if its driven wheels are in front?
It's not black-magic! It's all about dynamics and I as an engineer and a designer, can't understand what you're saying!

Innovas and Qualises can do the 360-degree, but having too high a CG (they are minivans, for cryin' out loud), are apt to roll-over and kill the occupants. Wouldn't advise it at all.

I can honestly say, I have done the 360-degree with my Premier Padmini S1, just before throwing out the old tires and getting my new wide-whitewalls. Then again I have also done donuts with my Maverick and Taunus.

ghostrider4385 · 11th February 2006, 21:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by ram

The only real donuts are performed with a high-powered rear-wheel-drive car. PERIOD.

About 2-3 years ago my friend and I had done near accurate donuts (READ: NOT a 360) with his indica diesel at speeds of around 40 in an empty ground at faridabad.Though the car felt extremly unstable it handled pretty well I guess, considering the fact that it didnt topple! I has seriously doubted an indica to do this! Ofcourse, the noises from every inch of it after that stunt is another story, but all in all I WAS mighty impressed by it!

This was the 1st time I was pulling a stunt like this (under my friend's experienced guidance ofcourse) and let me tell you... it was SCARY. Esp. since the ground was muddy and dust was flying all around us... looked like we were in the middle of a tornado from the inside!

A word of caution. Try avoid using cars with powersteering while doing these stunts the first few times.

I found doing a 360 in my zen relatively easy. Havent tried doing donuts with it yet nor ever will. I respect my car too much for that

And YES, we WERE wearing seatbelts!

Godspeed.

Alok.

Ram · 11th February 2006, 21:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by ghostrider4385

About 2-3 years ago my friend and I had done near accurate donuts (READ: NOT a 360) with his indica diesel at speeds of around 40 in an empty ground at faridabad.Though the car felt extremly unstable it handled pretty well I guess, considering the fact that it didnt topple! I has seriously doubted an indica to do this! Ofcourse, the noises from every inch of it after that stunt is another story, but all in all I WAS mighty impressed by it!

Somebody who says they did a donut in a front-wheel drive car is

either lying,
or they did it in reverse,
or they could magically get their dead rear-wheels to come alive without four-wheel-drive.

I rest my case!

ghostrider4385 · 11th February 2006, 21:36

I have forgotten to mention that there was an more than ample usage of the handbrake for this stunt to keep the car locked in a skid. This much use of the handbrake is not necessary in high-powered cars.

Godspeed.

Alok.

islero · 11th February 2006, 21:50

Lets get this straight:

A donut is when you start from rest (ina rear drive car), and give full power to send the car spinning around in the same place many times.

A 360 is when you are moving straight, you send the car spinning by a sudden violent tug at the steering, and pull the steering the opposite way once the car starts spinning in order to control it.

So now tell me, ghostrider, was it a 360 or a donut. Dont get me wrong, but I dont think it could have been donuts. 360 is possible though.

karthik247 · 11th February 2006, 22:06

Its pretty possible and easy to do a 180 on a Zen. But wouldn't advice it on the Wagon R.

mclaren1885 · 11th February 2006, 22:40

Ram it is possible to do a 180/360 on any FWD car .. All u need to do is acheive good speeds , jack the handbrake and turn .. A slippery/wet surface certainly will help in this case .. So u not believing that a few of us have done it ???? *wakey wakey* .. Been there done that !!!!!

Pls do read between the lines , we are saying a 180/360 degree spin , not a donut from standing still .. These spins are achieved while the car is in motion after which the handbrake comes into play ..

Quote:

It's not black-magic! It's all about dynamics and I as an engineer and a designer, can't understand what you're saying!

I understand that too , but comeon theory aint everything .. Get out and try it for urself ..

And coming to the point of being able to do donuts only on powerful RWD/4WD cars , i must say that i know a friend of mine whose done plenty of donuts in his CONTI(yes a contessa) .. Just a matter of time before i see it ..

ghostrider4385 · 11th February 2006, 22:43

As I had mentioned in my later post (which was posted a moment later and I had not seen rams post yet), there was an ample usage of the handbrake to keep locking the car into a continous skid. And that is the reason why I had mentioned that we did near accurate donuts. And I am pretty sure about us not doing consecutive 360's so rapidly (or was it? correct me if im wrong!).

To ram: If you read my posts very carefully without accusing all and sundry to be lairs, I had mentioned that the terrian was muddy. It is common knowledge that this type of terrain is very good for skidding. And I did mention we had to keep the car in a skid constantly with an ample use of the handbrake. And is another reason I had called it near accurate donuts.I did not saywe did perfect donuts. Mabe I should have termed it as donuts like. Well... I stated the facts, now it's up to you to decide whether it was a barefaced lie or otherwise. I kindly request you to try it if you want to prove me wrong, before shooting off allegations like that.

Try this and see what happens!: Take a car on to a muddy surface. High revv it and get it to speeds around 40, press clutch, flick the steering wheel in intended direction of skid, and split sec later pull up your handbrake while leaving the accel pedal. Release handbrake, dump clutch and accel high into skid. Straighten steering wheel slightly before repeating the above. What I realised by doing so is that the car does not lose too much traction and is able to pull out and into the next skid.

Godspeed.

Alok.

Rehaan · 11th February 2006, 23:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by tsreekaranrao

What effects do WHEELSPINS,180s&360s have on the car

Not good stuff. Most cars available in india do not have the kind of power to break the traction of the tyres (even the stock tyres). Which also can be read as> less power, therefore weaker drivetrain. So less power means you have to try extra hard to make a wheelspin happen, which basically translates into abusing your car. Dumping your clutch, sudden huge loads on the drivetrain and engine. Not the kind of stuff you want for your car.
As far as 180s and 360s, cars are not designed to go sideways. Sooner or later you will do some damage, to the car or yourself.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mclaren1885

A safe bet would be cars which have low ground clearance

I think you mean to say Center of Gravity?

Quote:

i hit a tree in my 5th attempt(was in the hospital for a week)...

and still...

Hi ram,
i believe this is the cause for the arguement >

Quote:

Originally Posted by ram

By 360s, I assume you mean "donuts"!

They aren't really the same thing.
Infact, when people mention "donuts" in india they also sometimes mean driving around in a tight circle very fast and getting the car to skid out a bit. (not front wheel planted and butt swinging around kinda donuts)

360s ARE possible in FWD cars, (and as ram said, "true" donuts are NOT).
Watch this video, at 1min3secs into the video, thats what i would term a 360 in a fwd car. Sure the maneuver has many other names too. And at the end of the video when they go head to head and smoke up the tires you can see that the cars are FWD.

So in the end >

Quote:

In which of these cars can i manage a spin safely ???

The answer - NONE!

cya
R

11th February 2006, 18:35	#1
tsreekaranrao BHPian Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: hyderabad Posts: 115 Thanked: 2 Times	Wheelspins, 180s & 360s - and how they affect your car What effects do WHEELSPINS,180s&360s have on the car (not the tyres) Which cars can safely execute 180s and 360s safely.As for wheelspins i think even an amby can manage a short one... I am sorry if i posted this thread in the wrong place please move it to the correct place
	() Thanks

11th February 2006, 18:49	#2
mclaren1885 BANNED Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Bangalore (the city of modded cars) !! Posts: 4,818 Thanked: 46 Times View My Garage Infractions: 0/1 (10)	As long as the car doesnt flip over trying these 180's or 360's u should be safe .. A safe bet would be cars which have low ground clearance .. I have tried a few 360's in my zen and alto and have felt more comfortable in the zen than the alto .. However the best that i could manage in the zen was a 330 .. yes doing these things does affect ur cars .. Something that our experienced guys will get to in a short while .. Coming to wheelspins most cars can do it , even my indica dls used to wheelspin like crazy .. Major problem would be to the tyres , driveshafts etc ..
	() Thanks

11th February 2006, 19:07	#3
tsreekaranrao BHPian Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: hyderabad Posts: 115 Thanked: 2 Times	I 1st tried 360s when i was in college in a m800 (my friend's) i.e. the first model (1985 maybe) and each time i tried i felt i was going to flip... I used to have a fiat which would spin off the road or even worse a tyre would burst if i took corners at "HIGH SPEED" and the car would go spinning like hell maybe more than 360.it was a great feeling until... i hit a tree in my 5th attempt(was in the hospital for a week)... I want to try again but i am really scared to do it now Right now i have 1)elantra crdi 2)WagonR 3)Innova diesel In which of these cars can i manage a spin safely ???
	() Thanks

11th February 2006, 19:52	#4
karthik247 Senior - BHPian Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: BLR, HYD Posts: 2,710 Thanked: 30 Times	The safest car u could try these on would be ur Elantra cuz it'll b more stable than the Wagon R or the Innova. And make sure u have enough money left for the clutch, driveshaft, tyres etc...
	() Thanks

11th February 2006, 20:18	#5
Ram Senior - BHPian Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Singapore, Mumbai, Nagpur Posts: 2,166 Thanked: 223 Times View My Garage	By 360s, I assume you mean "donuts"! A Donut is a circle of burnt rubber made by spinning a rear wheel drive car on the spot. The car's rear-end rotates around the front wheels continuously, thereby creating circular skid marks if done right, and causing lots of tire smoke. The trick to make a donut happen is to quickly start oversteering but not so much that you just do a sudden 180-degree spin and stop. The only real donuts are performed with a high-powered rear-wheel-drive car. PERIOD. People: please don't even try it with a front-wheel drive or a 4x4, without risking your life and limb, when it overturns, if you manage to lose traction, which I'm close to confident, you won't!!! The only 4x4s capable of aggressive donuts are the powerful Mitsubishi Lancer Evo, Nissan Skyline GT-R and Subaru Impreza WRX STi (impossible with the plain-vanilla Impreza). Cars like the 4x4 Passat W8 send most of the power to the front wheels, and send some power to the rear only when loss of traction is detected, so no donut is possible. Last edited by Ram : 11th February 2006 at 20:20.
	() Thanks

11th February 2006, 20:43	#6
mclaren1885 BANNED Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Bangalore (the city of modded cars) !! Posts: 4,818 Thanked: 46 Times View My Garage Infractions: 0/1 (10)	Yes donuts are possible only on a RWD car or powerful 4WD like the EVO'S , Skylines , etc etc .. However i think here the point in case was to do a 360 as in just 1 spin with no intention of carrying on to do continous donuts .. Am i right ?? Of the list that u have mentioned , i think the elantras the safest provided u dont mind ruining ur driveshafts , tyres , clutch , hand brake assembly etc ..
	() Thanks

11th February 2006, 21:36	#10
ghostrider4385 BHPian Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Hyderabad Posts: 389 Thanked: 12 Times	I have forgotten to mention that there was an more than ample usage of the handbrake for this stunt to keep the car locked in a skid. This much use of the handbrake is not necessary in high-powered cars. Godspeed. Alok.
	() Thanks

11th February 2006, 21:50	#11
islero Senior - BHPian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Chennai Posts: 1,574 Thanked: 13 Times View My Garage	Lets get this straight: A donut is when you start from rest (ina rear drive car), and give full power to send the car spinning around in the same place many times. A 360 is when you are moving straight, you send the car spinning by a sudden violent tug at the steering, and pull the steering the opposite way once the car starts spinning in order to control it. So now tell me, ghostrider, was it a 360 or a donut. Dont get me wrong, but I dont think it could have been donuts. 360 is possible though.
	() Thanks

11th February 2006, 22:06	#12
karthik247 Senior - BHPian Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: BLR, HYD Posts: 2,710 Thanked: 30 Times	Its pretty possible and easy to do a 180 on a Zen. But wouldn't advice it on the Wagon R.
	() Thanks

11th February 2006, 22:43	#14
ghostrider4385 BHPian Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Hyderabad Posts: 389 Thanked: 12 Times	As I had mentioned in my later post (which was posted a moment later and I had not seen rams post yet), there was an ample usage of the handbrake to keep locking the car into a continous skid. And that is the reason why I had mentioned that we did near accurate donuts. And I am pretty sure about us not doing consecutive 360's so rapidly (or was it? correct me if im wrong!). To ram: If you read my posts very carefully without accusing all and sundry to be lairs, I had mentioned that the terrian was muddy. It is common knowledge that this type of terrain is very good for skidding. And I did mention we had to keep the car in a skid constantly with an ample use of the handbrake. And is another reason I had called it near accurate donuts.I did not saywe did perfect donuts. Mabe I should have termed it as donuts like. Well... I stated the facts, now it's up to you to decide whether it was a barefaced lie or otherwise. I kindly request you to try it if you want to prove me wrong, before shooting off allegations like that. Try this and see what happens!: Take a car on to a muddy surface. High revv it and get it to speeds around 40, press clutch, flick the steering wheel in intended direction of skid, and split sec later pull up your handbrake while leaving the accel pedal. Release handbrake, dump clutch and accel high into skid. Straighten steering wheel slightly before repeating the above. What I realised by doing so is that the car does not lose too much traction and is able to pull out and into the next skid. Godspeed. Alok.
	() Thanks