Team-BHP (https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/)

-   Technical Stuff (https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/technical-stuff/)

-   -   A superb Car cleaning, polishing & detailing guide (https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/technical-stuff/102011-superb-car-cleaning-polishing-detailing-guide-797.html)

Thank you for your prompt response, Sir.
So, to apply Cancoat, I need to clay the car, then polish and then apply cancoat? Is there a way to get rid of this polishing step or some alternative of machine polishing? I don't have any detailing shop nearby. Whatever needs to be done, I have to do it myself.

Regards

Saubhik

Anytime sir.

You don’t have to clay before applying Cancoat. You can easily just do a wash and 25% IPA wipe and skip the clay and polishing step if your paint doesn’t feel very rough to the touch.

The spray coating needs a clean and oil free surface to bond with and using IPA (and tar and ferrous remover if you see tar or iron contamination) is all you need chemically. Coatings don’t care whether our paint is dull or glossy, they’ll bond either way. Machine polishing is mainly to undo the paint swirling inflicted by clay.

(I’m well aware many pros will disagree slightly and claim that abrasives in the polish will help open up the paint pores and aid the coating bond better by creating microscopic surface etching, they are correct in this assertion. I’m keeping it simple here.)

If your car already has light to moderate swirls, you can get away with claying and not polishing as the paint marring inflicted by clay won’t be visible due to the pre existing swirls. So here you wash-clay-IPA-Cancoat.

If your car is swirl free, then skip the clay if you don’t plan to polish with a machine. Here you’ll do wash-IPA-Cancoat. You can teach yourself like I did if you have the time and want to learn but start with a junk panel instead of your main car. You can get a rotary polisher, foam pads and a finishing polish like Menzerna 3000 to start with.

If you’re still confused, after washing, just clay a small section on the bonnet, inspect with a bright flashlight, if you don’t see a significant difference in terms of clay inflicted swirling, go ahead and clay the entire car (if it needs it).

How to check if your paint needs to be clayed? Wrap a thin polybag around your hand and gently drag across the surface, if it feels anything short of smooth as glass, you have bonded contamination. Ignoring bonded dirt will not have any negative impact on paint health, you can very well chose to protect with Cancoat and address it later on.

What is the best trim restorer/protectant I can get in India ?

I have tried Perl before and it didn't impress me with its performance.

sir, over the years i have tried multiple trim restorer's but i was really impressed by Cerakote Trim Coat due to its restoring property and longevity. if you wash your car with a ph neutral shampoo then it will easily stay on trims for a year.

Can you provide a trusted source of purchasing this in India?

I was considering Cerakote but apparently there is a V2 which is supposed to be better and isn't available here yet.

Also at some point I'm planning to paint all the black trim gloss black at some point so ideally I would like to avoid a product that is as "permanent" as Cerakote which might interfere with the paint bonding.

I was considering Koch Chemie "Motorplast" too as it would serve a a dual purpose product.

@AJ56 : What is the absolute thickest and longest lasting paint coating available on the market - both consumer and pro grade ?
I'm more interested in thickness and longevity over additional properties like hydrophobicity

PERL is one of the longest lasting silica based trim and tyre dressings one can use, outperforms Darkside every time I’ve tested. Use it neat, no dilution.

Also, how long a trim dressing will last depends very heavily on your surface prep, if you car is anything over a few days old, chances are the plastic trim is already contaminated and looks white/faded due to surface mineral deposits and oxidation.

To deep clean, simply remove dust and use a concentrated all purpose cleaner (APC) and agitate with a medium stiffness detail brush, you may have to repeat a second or third time as textured plastics can require some agitation to get everything off.

25% IPA wipe to degrease and now you can apply PERL or your dressing of choice.

Will also clarify that a trim dressing is what most of these products are, trim restorer seems to imply something that’s at least semi permanent and won’t wash off easily, whereas trim dressings will (including PERL) if you apply over a surface that’s isn’t very clean and contaminant free to begin with.

Ceramic coatings for plastic trim do have a slightly longer life but again, if applied over anything short of surgically clean plastic, in a few weeks it’ll go back to turning white (just like rust, all of it needs to be off before sealing.)

I personally avoid ceramic trim/plastic coatings as in certain cases they can react with the trim and leave permanent discolouration (old BMW’s in particular). They are also irreversible, in that if you leave a high spot or botch the application in any way, you can’t use abrasives to fix and strip the coating as it’s a matte textured plastic with dye and using a polish or compound will cause further discolouration and mess the texture up.

If you have actual damage/discolouration on plastic trim, there are industrial dyes available and these are the only product category I would classify as a ‘restorer’ as they won’t wash off.

The shot below shows untreated, contaminated plastic (right), clean but unprotected plastic (centre), and clean and dressed plastic (left).

Many people skip the cleaning and degreasing step and go straight to application after a wash, this approach ensures the dressing cannot bond to the surface properly and its durability goes for a toss.


Yes avoid ceramic on plastic trim, see my reply above. Motorplast is fine.

Consumer grade I’d say Carpro UK 3.0, around 1 micron thick but very easy and forgiving to use and lasts 1 year+ with safe washing.

Pro grade, I’d say the aviation grade coatings take the cake. SystemX Max and Cilajet Aero, Max is around 10 microns (varies slightly by application and ambient humidity).

Cilajet doesn’t publish their film thickness but in my testing it was extremely durable and even though it wasn’t the slickest feel wise or easy to apply, it was right up there with Max in terms of long term durability and overall toughness and resilience.

Max is warrantied for 10 years (lifetime in US) and does become a part of your Carfax as they believe it goes as long as the factory clearcoat. I’ve not tested it that long but it’s running in it’s fifth year and except one chemical decon I’ve not done anything else and it’s still going.

Real world testing takes a (very) long time, a few improper washes and your tests are ruined.

If you are in Gurgaon/Delhi, then one stop place is 5C Car Care Detailing by our own AJ56 (Anish) :):):)

Any feedback on this type of product to make side windows and side rearview mirrors fog waterproof?

SARTE Car Anti Fog Film Car Rearview Mirror Films Anti-Rain Fog Waterproof Anti-Glare, Anti-Scratch PET Material Film Accessories (2 PCs Oval + 2 PCs Square) Combo Pack: https://amzn.in/d/hwrWBo8

I don't want to take risk of applying and removing unless its really a proven solution!!

Yeah you are right, I'm just looking for a trim protectant rather than a coating because I do plan on painting the trim in the future and a coating would interfere with that because of the rough, porous texture of the trim.

It's old trim and a bit faded. I just want it to be darker and I have a feeling after the first time I clean it with APC and apply the product, there is a good chance I will be too lazy to do it again . Maybe I should just use the black shoe polish hack and call it a day rl:
I know that PERL is regarded as a safe bet but I found it to be too light. Maybe using it neat might be better, plus I believe it has been reformulated since the last time I used it.

The old Opti Coat used to be a 2 um consumer coating and was quite good, if not as glossy and hydrophobic as it's competitors. The new Glossy Coat is just bad value nowadays. If a single thick coating isn't an option, maybe there's one that can be layered to achieve additional thickness ?
OC was also Silicon Carbide + resin + solvent I believe vs most other ceramics that are silicon dioxide + solvent. I guess that's what contributed to it's 2 year+ semi permanent lifespan, which was a lot back in the day.

Yea, I would have, but the price rates on 5C site is a big deterrent for me. I don't want to spend a bomb on these detailings - for instance a normal foam wash is available for 250 rs near my place, but 3C has a price of 1700! I can understand that there might be a difference in quality, but still can't gulp this much price :confused:

Moreover, I don't see a simple wash + claying + polish/wax price list !

Definitely don’t use shoe polish lol:

Yes once you clean and protect it, and avoid using hard water for future washing, you’ll go a couple of years minimum before needing to repeat this process. Every few weeks just apply a coat of your preferred water based dressing post wash.

Opti Pro+ was the only variant that actually read 1.8-2 microns on the gauge, Pro and below were thinner. But they went 1-2 years with basic care.

As for gloss, it’s a myth that it comes from coating, as I’ve said before, if your paint starts looking glossier post ceramic application, you didn’t polish and correct it properly. Slickness definitely increases by orders of magnitude post coating, as do chemical and UV protection and hydrophobics.

Yes there are certain mfg’s that still offer two part systems like Opti and Feynlab, but thickness is a function of the chemistry inside the bottle, as you can have super thick single layer coatings well. Most current gen coatings in fact don’t advise layering as you won’t have any benefit as the base will reject whatever is applied over it.

From what I’ve been told by chemists (and my own observations over the years), chemistry is not the main factor that determines longevity and performance, be it silica carbide (SiC), silica dioxide (SiO2), titanium dioxide (TiO2), silica nitride (SiN), polysilazane and fluorine, or any combination of the above.

Different chemistries can lend certain characteristics to a coating but the longevity is largely a function of resistance to fracturing as time goes on, and depends on the quality of resin used and quality of mfg process.

You’ll be fine with any of the above chemistries provided it is manufactured by a quality brand using high quality raw materials and installed by a detailer that knows what he’s doing.

Yeah, I was going to avoid a coating or a long term trim product, because as I said, I plan to get the trim repainted to gloss black a year or two down the line.
Then I came across a trim coating product called Puris Jade Black Dress Pro which has a black stain mixed into the coating. Seems like a good option. Thoughts ?

I'm aware of the fact that a bulk of the gloss comes from the prep work with the coating providing the "icing". I have become a bit more practical with age and my reason for wanting a thicker coating rather that the slickest coating is mainly to restore some of the thickness lost when polishing and also to have a thicker sacrificial barrier on top of the paint. I also heard that SiC has a longer lasting bond to the paint vs SiO2 but is not as slick. A sacrifice I'm willing to make.

What are your thoughts on Max Protects UNC R and R Lite, if you have any experience with them. They are also advertised as "permanent" coatings.

I had also hand polished and coated my car with Opti Coat way back in 2014 by myself with pretty decent results. It lasted quite a while and actually caused some issues when I got a panel repainted a couple of years later. Unfortunately I had a really unpleasant interaction with Ron from Optimum a few years ago and have stopped using Optimum products on principle.

One word - Don't.

I had purchased a similar from Amazon, costing about the same and it's absolute rubbish after the second rain or you roll up/down the windows a couple of times. These will scratch if there is dust trapped near the windowsill and now I'm frankly afraid to remove them for the fear of leaving the glue residue or worse scratching the glass.

Thanks a lot, you saved me.

Is there any solution that water drops don't collect on side mirror/window?